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Need correction. Lets discuss this topic more Himsiringdao ( talk) 14:28, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
@ PerfectingNEI: Please do keep searching for the historically accurate coat of arms. Chaipau ( talk) 10:37, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:
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@ Chaipau: Crossing of Brahmaputra is conflicting with existence of Kachomari ruins of golaghat and doiyang-dhanshiri ruins. And Hidimbi and Heramba are different kingdoms. Dima = dhansiri in dimasa language. So, Dimasa should be children of dhansiri. There is lots of confusion. It's better to delete the Kachari ghat part. As per my knowledge kachari ghat was related to involvement of kachari in saraighat war. Mahamnipha was Borahi King . Kachari history is full of doubts. PerfectingNEI ( talk) 08:07, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Some http://dspace.nehu.ac.in/bitstream/1/11414/1/S%20K%20BOSE%2001.pdf PerfectingNEI ( talk) 09:01, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Found one interesting fact of Kachar in 1840 https://books.google.co.in/books?id=0TQzAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false PerfectingNEI ( talk) 21:33, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
According to Ahom Buranjis and Ahom dictionary , Kacharis were called as Ti-Mi-Sha. Ti means Land , Mi means Female / Not to mix / Less and Sha means Good looking / people PerfectingNEI ( talk) 01:09, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
Ahom word for Brahmaputra is different. Show me prove of your claim. Don't ask me anything PerfectingNEI ( talk) 02:14, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
Prior to his appointment to assist Gait, not more than five years before he produced the Specimens, G.C. Barua had no knowledge of Ahom, nor was he familiar with any of the other Tai languages.G C Barua's dictionary is not reliable. You are inserting noise here, nothing else, and that too in the wrong place, out of context. So I expect you to remove this yourself. Chaipau ( talk) 02:55, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
DinaBasumatary ( talk · contribs) is trying to spin the word Bodosa to mean Bodo/Boro. This is not correct. The Bodosa are a clan in the Dimasa community. As [ Bathari] (p16) clearly mentions: "As per Dimasa tradition, the Bodo or Bodosa is the first clan to attain to royalty. The Bodo clan was followed by other clans like Thaosensa, Hasnusa (Hacchengsa)." Therefore, it is not that the Dimasa kingdom was ruled only by the Bodosa clan. Moreover the Dimasa people resent the use of the name Bodo: "Dimasas form a distinct identity even while sharing affinities with other cognate groups. Contraiy to Hodgson’s claim, they prefer to identify themselves as Dimasa rather than Bodo."
Bathari suggests that the Boros of the foothills of Bhutan merely internalized the Bodo name after a ruling dynasty: "It is probable that the community came to be called Bodos later as they belonged to the same group and in the long run the larger section of the community internalised the name." There are parallels where this has happened.
Historical extant documents too call this kingdom Timisa (a corrupt form Dimasa). Therefore, to suggest that the clan-name Bodosa means the Bodo people is an illegitimate insertion of Bodo in this article---it is biased and a purely POV push.
Chaipau ( talk) 12:33, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
There is clear evidence of Ramsa and Heramba kingdom. Bodosa is ofcourse name of Bodo. Timisa isn't Corruption of Dimasa. You are trying to corrupt timisa to Dimasa. Your act of erasing Bodo History is kind of hatred towards Bodo community. DinaBasumatary ( talk) 13:04, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
According to Chaipau, Timisa can be Dimasa. Bodosa can't be Bodo or Bodosa. What a great logic. Britishers used Bodo for Boro. Don't you know ?
Can you prove Timisa is Corruption of Dimasa ?
Truth is Ahom militant didn't know anything so they had written anything. Tiura of Chutia , Timisa for Dimasa , Tunisa for Moran. But Bodo History have nothing to do with Timisa or Ahom. Bodo History is related to Heramba. Ahom are no one to delete History of Bodo. Your forceful deletion of Bodo History is act of hatred. DinaBasumatary ( talk) 13:07, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
Who is bathari ? Is he god ? Is he all knowing ? There is no evidence Dimasa have anything call Bodosa but Dimasa have been trying guess they were known as Bodosa. And Dimasa have no evidence of their History. It's only Ahom Timisa. There is evidence of Bodosa and Ramsa. Bathari's imagination don't prove anything. It's just his claim. DinaBasumatary ( talk) 13:11, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
Dimasa claiming Bodosa to be their clan is recent. There is no evidence that Dimasa have clan named Bodosa. DinaBasumatary ( talk) 13:13, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
You are inserting recent claim and you are removing older record. People can understand your section. It's just Wikipedia. It will change in future. DinaBasumatary ( talk) 09:25, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
Dimasa clan names are uncited. Wikipedia need citation. Since, It's Kachari kingdom. It's not Dimasa kingdom. Kachari is better suited. Removal and addition is already explained. Dimasa recent 2014 PhD claim can't be accepted as Historical evidence.
There is no evidence that Bodosa or Bodo or Boro is Dimasa clan. It's just recent claim. And Kakoty PhD thesis have evidence from 1840. Chaipau have distorted that the History of Ramsa of Heramba kingdom.
Chaipau i know you know nothing. You are acting like controller of Wikipedia.
DinaBasumatary ( talk) 09:05, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
Chaipau have removed evidence for old record to forcefully establish recent claim and Ahom Buranji in Wikipedia. DinaBasumatary ( talk) 09:06, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
Bodo or Bodosa or Bodofisa was used by Bodo since very long time. Very soon I'm going to publish my research on Ahom Buranjis. Then all problem will be clear. Now, I'm tired with minister Chaipau whose goal is to forcefully write and spread fake things. DinaBasumatary ( talk) 09:09, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
Royal kacharis called themselves Rangtsa or Ramsa. So, It was ruled by Rangtsa or Ramsa or Boro. 2409:4065:19F:6667:4060:379:E1B4:2918 ( talk) 16:36, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
@ DinaBasumatary: You are trying to claim the Kachari kingdom was not Dimasa and that it was Boro by inserting Rangsta. This conflicts with too many Wikipedia policies, as pointed out earlier. Chaipau ( talk) 09:20, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
It is well known that everyone is related in one way or the other, but that does not mean everyone is Boro. Sorry, but that discussion is not relevant here because it is part of the current Boro politics. You cannot use Wikipedia to play out your politics ( WP:NOTPROMO). Chaipau ( talk) 10:27, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
The Dimasas of Cachar are called Barmans today, and are considered to be part of the Dimasa social group, not Boro. Chaipau ( talk) 12:04, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
This is from Shin (2020):
Nevertheless, the mobility to kshatriya status, despite its inherent limitation, was further extended to other groups within the Dimasas. Under Govindacandranārāyaṇa the dominant section of Dimasa people adopted Barman, a typical kshatriya surname, as their own; and they abided by social customs and observed religious rites like the Hindus of Bengal. Their supposed kshatriya identity was accentuated by their imagined past of being the ‘aristocratic families who accompanied the fugitive Dimasa king from Maibong to Khaspur’. At a later time, a local historian provided the supplementary explanation that king Lakṣmīcandranārāyaṇa (1772–74) organised the Dimasas into two groups: the Barmans, following the faith of their generic kshatriya father, Bhīma, and the Hidimbasas, adhering to the faith of their generic demon mother, Hiḍimbā. The former abstained from eating pigs and fowls, wore the sacred thread and paid homage to brahmins, whereas the latter continued to eat these animals and followed their own animistic beliefs.
Chaipau ( talk) 12:15, 6 March 2020 (UTC) @ Chaipau: We are talking about History not Today. Ramsa migrated to plain. DinaBasumatary ( talk) 15:06, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
According to records preserved among the family of the last princes of Kachar (which, however, are but traditions reduced to writing) the Kacharis conquered the kingdom of Kamrup, and gave to it a succession of Rajahs from whom the late royal family of Kachar of the line of Ha-tsung-tsa derive their descent. The term 'Kachari' is of modern date, the proper name by which that people call themselves being Rangtsa, and the country from which they trace their origin being situated in the north-east of Assam.
— Thomas Fisher, "Memoir of Sylhet, Kachar and Adjoining Districts", The Journal of the Asiatic Society of Bengal, vol IX, part 2, Jul-Sep 1840, p. 829
Shouldn't there be separate articles for Timisa & Kachari kingdom ? Timisa kingdom was the original kingdom of Dimasas (current Dima Haso district) before it got destroyed by Ahom kingdom. Whereas Kachari kingdom didn't include Timisa kingdom region, but was only restricted to Barak Valley region. Tizen03 ( talk) 18:37, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
Khoushal Langthasa I appropriate your enthusiasm to edit the article however you need to state why you are removing sourced material. I don't know much about this subject however please state why you are removing sections. Please keep in mind no original research is allowed, so bring links as well, or books or anything else. I know nothing on what is being removed all I know is the citations are reliable and the info was removed without any source or reason. If you think the wording is false please make it clear why and state how we should reword it. Thanks. Vallee01 ( talk) 06:32, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:52, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
@ Chaipau: Can the Chinese name of Dimasa be used?? Homogenie ( talk) 17:18, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
@ Chaipau: i mean Chinese script! Homogenie ( talk) 17:28, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
@ Homogenie: regarding your revert [6] could you please show where these specific claims have been endorsed? Please make your claims here instead of edit summaries. Chaipau ( talk) 15:54, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
I have removed the major portion of the claims with Ming Shilu. These claims have to be accepted by a wider scholarship to be accepted. It must be explained how the Ahoms came to use a Dimasa plate to stand their king's titular deity. This is just speculation and needs further acceptance. Chaipau ( talk) 16:46, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
Di-ma-sa plaque was issued by Chinese for Di-ma-sa polityis not true. The plaque was issued for a polity called Timasa. And whether it was issued for Dimasa (as in Dimasa kingdom) is a point in dispute. You again have confused Timasa with Dimasa when you say
It is most likely that Assam-based scholars ignore the fact that Ahom rulers used Dimasa plaque to legimitize their rules.This was the Timasa plaque, not Dimasa.
It is most likely that Assam-based scholars ignore the fact that Ahom rulers used Dimasa plaque to legimitize their rules.is reply to why Assam scholars don't write anything about Dimasa plaque possessed by Ahom. Uff, You are claiming
First your statement "Di-ma-sa plaque was issued by Chinese for Di-ma-sa polity" is not trueif you have knowledge of chinese characters. Chinese characters have multiple pronunciations. Some scholars tried to locate Timasa/Dimasa of Ming Shilu without knowledge of Dimasa plaque but they were unsuccessful. You are trying to win an argument using very old and unsuccessful works. Wade and Sun are WP:RS and WP:SCHOLARSHIP so you know what you should do as per WP:P&G. Northeast heritage ( talk) 03:21, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Need correction. Lets discuss this topic more Himsiringdao ( talk) 14:28, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
@ PerfectingNEI: Please do keep searching for the historically accurate coat of arms. Chaipau ( talk) 10:37, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 07:54, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
@ Chaipau: Crossing of Brahmaputra is conflicting with existence of Kachomari ruins of golaghat and doiyang-dhanshiri ruins. And Hidimbi and Heramba are different kingdoms. Dima = dhansiri in dimasa language. So, Dimasa should be children of dhansiri. There is lots of confusion. It's better to delete the Kachari ghat part. As per my knowledge kachari ghat was related to involvement of kachari in saraighat war. Mahamnipha was Borahi King . Kachari history is full of doubts. PerfectingNEI ( talk) 08:07, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Some http://dspace.nehu.ac.in/bitstream/1/11414/1/S%20K%20BOSE%2001.pdf PerfectingNEI ( talk) 09:01, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Found one interesting fact of Kachar in 1840 https://books.google.co.in/books?id=0TQzAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false PerfectingNEI ( talk) 21:33, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
According to Ahom Buranjis and Ahom dictionary , Kacharis were called as Ti-Mi-Sha. Ti means Land , Mi means Female / Not to mix / Less and Sha means Good looking / people PerfectingNEI ( talk) 01:09, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
Ahom word for Brahmaputra is different. Show me prove of your claim. Don't ask me anything PerfectingNEI ( talk) 02:14, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
Prior to his appointment to assist Gait, not more than five years before he produced the Specimens, G.C. Barua had no knowledge of Ahom, nor was he familiar with any of the other Tai languages.G C Barua's dictionary is not reliable. You are inserting noise here, nothing else, and that too in the wrong place, out of context. So I expect you to remove this yourself. Chaipau ( talk) 02:55, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
DinaBasumatary ( talk · contribs) is trying to spin the word Bodosa to mean Bodo/Boro. This is not correct. The Bodosa are a clan in the Dimasa community. As [ Bathari] (p16) clearly mentions: "As per Dimasa tradition, the Bodo or Bodosa is the first clan to attain to royalty. The Bodo clan was followed by other clans like Thaosensa, Hasnusa (Hacchengsa)." Therefore, it is not that the Dimasa kingdom was ruled only by the Bodosa clan. Moreover the Dimasa people resent the use of the name Bodo: "Dimasas form a distinct identity even while sharing affinities with other cognate groups. Contraiy to Hodgson’s claim, they prefer to identify themselves as Dimasa rather than Bodo."
Bathari suggests that the Boros of the foothills of Bhutan merely internalized the Bodo name after a ruling dynasty: "It is probable that the community came to be called Bodos later as they belonged to the same group and in the long run the larger section of the community internalised the name." There are parallels where this has happened.
Historical extant documents too call this kingdom Timisa (a corrupt form Dimasa). Therefore, to suggest that the clan-name Bodosa means the Bodo people is an illegitimate insertion of Bodo in this article---it is biased and a purely POV push.
Chaipau ( talk) 12:33, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
There is clear evidence of Ramsa and Heramba kingdom. Bodosa is ofcourse name of Bodo. Timisa isn't Corruption of Dimasa. You are trying to corrupt timisa to Dimasa. Your act of erasing Bodo History is kind of hatred towards Bodo community. DinaBasumatary ( talk) 13:04, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
According to Chaipau, Timisa can be Dimasa. Bodosa can't be Bodo or Bodosa. What a great logic. Britishers used Bodo for Boro. Don't you know ?
Can you prove Timisa is Corruption of Dimasa ?
Truth is Ahom militant didn't know anything so they had written anything. Tiura of Chutia , Timisa for Dimasa , Tunisa for Moran. But Bodo History have nothing to do with Timisa or Ahom. Bodo History is related to Heramba. Ahom are no one to delete History of Bodo. Your forceful deletion of Bodo History is act of hatred. DinaBasumatary ( talk) 13:07, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
Who is bathari ? Is he god ? Is he all knowing ? There is no evidence Dimasa have anything call Bodosa but Dimasa have been trying guess they were known as Bodosa. And Dimasa have no evidence of their History. It's only Ahom Timisa. There is evidence of Bodosa and Ramsa. Bathari's imagination don't prove anything. It's just his claim. DinaBasumatary ( talk) 13:11, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
Dimasa claiming Bodosa to be their clan is recent. There is no evidence that Dimasa have clan named Bodosa. DinaBasumatary ( talk) 13:13, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
You are inserting recent claim and you are removing older record. People can understand your section. It's just Wikipedia. It will change in future. DinaBasumatary ( talk) 09:25, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
Dimasa clan names are uncited. Wikipedia need citation. Since, It's Kachari kingdom. It's not Dimasa kingdom. Kachari is better suited. Removal and addition is already explained. Dimasa recent 2014 PhD claim can't be accepted as Historical evidence.
There is no evidence that Bodosa or Bodo or Boro is Dimasa clan. It's just recent claim. And Kakoty PhD thesis have evidence from 1840. Chaipau have distorted that the History of Ramsa of Heramba kingdom.
Chaipau i know you know nothing. You are acting like controller of Wikipedia.
DinaBasumatary ( talk) 09:05, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
Chaipau have removed evidence for old record to forcefully establish recent claim and Ahom Buranji in Wikipedia. DinaBasumatary ( talk) 09:06, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
Bodo or Bodosa or Bodofisa was used by Bodo since very long time. Very soon I'm going to publish my research on Ahom Buranjis. Then all problem will be clear. Now, I'm tired with minister Chaipau whose goal is to forcefully write and spread fake things. DinaBasumatary ( talk) 09:09, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
Royal kacharis called themselves Rangtsa or Ramsa. So, It was ruled by Rangtsa or Ramsa or Boro. 2409:4065:19F:6667:4060:379:E1B4:2918 ( talk) 16:36, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
@ DinaBasumatary: You are trying to claim the Kachari kingdom was not Dimasa and that it was Boro by inserting Rangsta. This conflicts with too many Wikipedia policies, as pointed out earlier. Chaipau ( talk) 09:20, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
It is well known that everyone is related in one way or the other, but that does not mean everyone is Boro. Sorry, but that discussion is not relevant here because it is part of the current Boro politics. You cannot use Wikipedia to play out your politics ( WP:NOTPROMO). Chaipau ( talk) 10:27, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
The Dimasas of Cachar are called Barmans today, and are considered to be part of the Dimasa social group, not Boro. Chaipau ( talk) 12:04, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
This is from Shin (2020):
Nevertheless, the mobility to kshatriya status, despite its inherent limitation, was further extended to other groups within the Dimasas. Under Govindacandranārāyaṇa the dominant section of Dimasa people adopted Barman, a typical kshatriya surname, as their own; and they abided by social customs and observed religious rites like the Hindus of Bengal. Their supposed kshatriya identity was accentuated by their imagined past of being the ‘aristocratic families who accompanied the fugitive Dimasa king from Maibong to Khaspur’. At a later time, a local historian provided the supplementary explanation that king Lakṣmīcandranārāyaṇa (1772–74) organised the Dimasas into two groups: the Barmans, following the faith of their generic kshatriya father, Bhīma, and the Hidimbasas, adhering to the faith of their generic demon mother, Hiḍimbā. The former abstained from eating pigs and fowls, wore the sacred thread and paid homage to brahmins, whereas the latter continued to eat these animals and followed their own animistic beliefs.
Chaipau ( talk) 12:15, 6 March 2020 (UTC) @ Chaipau: We are talking about History not Today. Ramsa migrated to plain. DinaBasumatary ( talk) 15:06, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
According to records preserved among the family of the last princes of Kachar (which, however, are but traditions reduced to writing) the Kacharis conquered the kingdom of Kamrup, and gave to it a succession of Rajahs from whom the late royal family of Kachar of the line of Ha-tsung-tsa derive their descent. The term 'Kachari' is of modern date, the proper name by which that people call themselves being Rangtsa, and the country from which they trace their origin being situated in the north-east of Assam.
— Thomas Fisher, "Memoir of Sylhet, Kachar and Adjoining Districts", The Journal of the Asiatic Society of Bengal, vol IX, part 2, Jul-Sep 1840, p. 829
Shouldn't there be separate articles for Timisa & Kachari kingdom ? Timisa kingdom was the original kingdom of Dimasas (current Dima Haso district) before it got destroyed by Ahom kingdom. Whereas Kachari kingdom didn't include Timisa kingdom region, but was only restricted to Barak Valley region. Tizen03 ( talk) 18:37, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
Khoushal Langthasa I appropriate your enthusiasm to edit the article however you need to state why you are removing sourced material. I don't know much about this subject however please state why you are removing sections. Please keep in mind no original research is allowed, so bring links as well, or books or anything else. I know nothing on what is being removed all I know is the citations are reliable and the info was removed without any source or reason. If you think the wording is false please make it clear why and state how we should reword it. Thanks. Vallee01 ( talk) 06:32, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:52, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
@ Chaipau: Can the Chinese name of Dimasa be used?? Homogenie ( talk) 17:18, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
@ Chaipau: i mean Chinese script! Homogenie ( talk) 17:28, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
@ Homogenie: regarding your revert [6] could you please show where these specific claims have been endorsed? Please make your claims here instead of edit summaries. Chaipau ( talk) 15:54, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
I have removed the major portion of the claims with Ming Shilu. These claims have to be accepted by a wider scholarship to be accepted. It must be explained how the Ahoms came to use a Dimasa plate to stand their king's titular deity. This is just speculation and needs further acceptance. Chaipau ( talk) 16:46, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
Di-ma-sa plaque was issued by Chinese for Di-ma-sa polityis not true. The plaque was issued for a polity called Timasa. And whether it was issued for Dimasa (as in Dimasa kingdom) is a point in dispute. You again have confused Timasa with Dimasa when you say
It is most likely that Assam-based scholars ignore the fact that Ahom rulers used Dimasa plaque to legimitize their rules.This was the Timasa plaque, not Dimasa.
It is most likely that Assam-based scholars ignore the fact that Ahom rulers used Dimasa plaque to legimitize their rules.is reply to why Assam scholars don't write anything about Dimasa plaque possessed by Ahom. Uff, You are claiming
First your statement "Di-ma-sa plaque was issued by Chinese for Di-ma-sa polity" is not trueif you have knowledge of chinese characters. Chinese characters have multiple pronunciations. Some scholars tried to locate Timasa/Dimasa of Ming Shilu without knowledge of Dimasa plaque but they were unsuccessful. You are trying to win an argument using very old and unsuccessful works. Wade and Sun are WP:RS and WP:SCHOLARSHIP so you know what you should do as per WP:P&G. Northeast heritage ( talk) 03:21, 8 July 2022 (UTC)