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The typography of "Al-Ħajaru al-Aswad, "the Black Stone"" in the first line of Kaaba#Architecture_and_interior seems to be odd. As I am not Muslim nor an Arabic speaker, I can't know whether this is intentional or not, but it is a transliteration I'm unfamiliar with outside of Cyrillic. The direct site for Black Stone has no usage of that H with stroke, but instead uses "al-Ḥajar" with the dot underneath. It seems like it should probably be changed to be "al-Ḥajar" (as in the Black Stone article) instead of "Al-Ħajaru" like it currently exists here. Romanization_of_Arabic#Comparison_table seems to suggest the dot underneath, and that the line through the H is a "capitalized" attempt at using the International Phonetic Alphabet to denote the Voiceless pharyngeal fricative. Someone more familiar with Arabic-to-English transliterations could verify. 00:13, 28 October 2016 (UTC)~ Bush 6984
The diagram image key includes "14: The station of Gabriel", which is not actually present in the diagram. No explanation is given in the article, although there is a note: "Key to numbered parts translated from, accessed 2 December". I believe the note refers to the whole section. Any idea what this is or if it should be there? LordQwert ( talk) 22:58, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
Yuunus27 removed two sources in this
which they also tagged as
WP:MINOR. The reasoning was that not a credible resource
. I disagree as the first is by a university publication and the second is by a subject matter expert.
Emir of Wikipedia (
talk) 20:04, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
According to Sacred Relics (Topkapı Palace), the items in the Şadırvanlı Sofa include keys to the Kaaba.
Should this also be mentioned in this article? Andrewa ( talk) 08:45, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
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I think the article should address the following about the interior: Who has access to the interior and when? Are ceremonies held inside and what are they? What is used to get up to the high doors (i.e., ladder, ramp, staircase)? Are photographs or other illustrations allowed? Can any be shown on the page? WikiParker ( talk)
The last paragraph contained views of Karen Armstrong except parts of claims based on Ibn Ishaq. However some of the views of Armstrong do not mention her info from any Islamic traditional sources on anything that can be construed what is only from Islamic view. User:Debresser reverted my edit in which I had moved it. I moved it without explaining so sorry for that. As there are other views besides that of Armstrong, like of Uri Rubin, Winfried Corduan etc I've added them as well. However Armstrong's view and pf all others not directly from any Islamic sources should be shifted to modern independent views. 169.149.143.147 ( talk) 17:46, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
Yeah I definitely agree. Unless what the authors says came from a medieval Muslim religious source, it should be separate. 59.89.41.170 ( talk) 19:15, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
The below section was added to the article, and I removed it because I think it misrepresents 'science'. I don't think there is any science which supports the view, but it is rather a religious view. I think saying it is a scientific perspective is erroneous. What do other people think?
There are views that Kaaba is the centre of the earth. [1] As per some scientific perspective it is said to be 'the centre around which the earth's centre goes every lunar month'. [2] It is also called the 'bary centre' on which earth monthly wobble.
References
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Why is there a section about Ptolemy in the article? It doesn't mention the Kaaba at all, treating only the Macoraba vs. Mecca problem, which is off-topic for this article. -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 01:34, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
Why the removal of sourced text? Is inviolable a better translation of muharram than consecrated? Not sure why Karen Armstrong counts as an original Islamic source though, could be safely moved to contemporary views. Ibn Ishaq on the other hand is incontrovertibly ancient and Islamic. Cpsoper ( talk) 20:39, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
with sides measuring 11.03 m (36.2 ft) by 12.86 m (42.2 ft).
The interior walls, measuring 13 m (43 ft) by 9 m (30 ft),
Interior walls longer than exterior? Jidanni ( talk) 23:59, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
Christiany is objectively a more popular religion worldwide than Judaism. Why provide equivalents from Judaism, a religion few know about than to provide examples from Christianity? This stinks of someone trying to spark more hostility online between Muslims and Jews. ("hehe you guys have a relic you bow down to. well guess what, WE HAVE ONE TOO! OUR RELIGIONS ARE BASICALLY THE SAME!"). 95.169.230.47 ( talk) 20:32, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
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Update pilgrimage statistics at the end of the second paragraph to 2019 as they are outdated. Updated statistics can be found here: https://www.stats.gov.sa/en/28 CH2022 ( talk) 13:18, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
Could editors knowledgeable in correct use of Arabic script please examine this change and determine if it is correct? א. א. אינסטלציה and LissanX seem to have different interpretations and this is a very sensitive article. Per the normal editing cycle, it is now time for discussion and an edit war would benefit no-one. Thanks in advance. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 14:04, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
حَدَّثَنِي الْحَكَمُ بْنُ مُوسَى الْقَنْطَرِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعَيْبُ بْنُ إِسْحَاقَ، عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، قَالَتْ طَافَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فِي حَجَّةِ الْوَدَاعِ حَوْلَ الْكَعْبَةِ عَلَى بَعِيرِهِ يَسْتَلِمُ الرُّكْنَ كَرَاهِيَةَ أَنْ يُضْرَبَ عَنْهُ النَّاسُ .
وَحَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ أَبِي بَكْرٍ الْمُقَدَّمِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ عُلَيَّةَ، وَحَمَّادُ بْنُ زَيْدٍ، ح وَحَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ زَيْدٍ، ح وَحَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، وَزُهَيْرُ بْنُ حَرْبٍ، - وَاللَّفْظُ لَهُمَا - قَالاَ حَدَّثَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ ابْنُ عُلَيَّةَ، عَنْ أَيُّوبَ، عَنْ مُحَمَّدٍ، عَنْ عَبِيدَةَ، عَنْ عَلِيٍّ، قَالَ ذَكَرَ الْخَوَارِجَ فَقَالَ فِيهِمْ رَجُلٌ مُخْدَجُ الْيَدِ - أَوْ مُودَنُ الْيَدِ أَوْ مَثْدُونُ الْيَدِ - لَوْلاَ أَنْ تَبْطَرُوا لَحَدَّثْتُكُمْ بِمَا وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ يَقْتُلُونَهُمْ عَلَى لِسَانِ مُحَمَّدٍ صلى الله عليه وسلم - قَالَ - قُلْتُ آنْتَ سَمِعْتَهُ مِنْ مُحَمَّدٍ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ إِي وَرَبِّ الْكَعْبَةِ إِي وَرَبِّ الْكَعْبَةِ إِي وَرَبِّ الْكَعْبَةِ .
أَخْبَرَنَا يُوسُفُ بْنُ عِيسَى، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا الْفَضْلُ بْنُ مُوسَى، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا مِسْعَرٌ، عَنْ مَعْبَدِ بْنِ خَالِدٍ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ يَسَارٍ، عَنْ قُتَيْلَةَ، - امْرَأَةٌ مِنْ جُهَيْنَةَ - أَنَّ يَهُودِيًّا، أَتَى النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقَالَ إِنَّكُمْ تُنَدِّدُونَ وَإِنَّكُمْ تُشْرِكُونَ تَقُولُونَ مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ وَشِئْتَ وَتَقُولُونَ وَالْكَعْبَةِ . فَأَمَرَهُمُ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم إِذَا أَرَادُوا أَنْ يَحْلِفُوا أَنْ يَقُولُوا "وَرَبِّ الْكَعْبَةِ ". وَيَقُولُونَ " مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ ثُمَّ شِئْتَ " .
So if I can summarize: there's one glyph that is at issue. א. א. אינסטלציה has looked at it and decided it is a waslah, which is improper in that position. LissanX has said, "No, that's not a waslah it's a hamzah or sometimes an alif." Could one of you post, maybe, something like ad official source? I think if we use these glyphs the same way, say, the Saudi government does, then we know what is correct. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 02:08, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ ؞ ٱلْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ ٱلْعَالَمِينَ ؞ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ ؞
- Quran, Surah al-Fatihah (1), Ayahs 1-3.
ٱلَّذِينَ آتَيْنَاهُمُ ٱلْكِتَابَ يَعْرِفُونَهُۥ كَمَا يَعْرِفُونَ أَبْنَآءَهُمُ ۘ ٱلَّذِينَ خَسِرُوٓا۟ أَنفُسَهُمْ فَهُمْ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ ؞ - Quran, Surah al-An'am (6), Ayah 20.
وَإِذَا جَآءَتْهُمْ آيَةٌۭ قَالُوا۟ لَن نُّؤْمِنَ حَتَّىٰ نُؤْتَىٰ مِثْلَ مَآ أُوتِيَرُسُلُ ٱللَّهِ ۘ ٱللَّهُ أَعْلَمُ حَيْثُ يَجْعَلُ رِسَالَتَهُۥ ۗ سَيُصِيبُ ٱلَّذِينَ أَجْرَمُوا۟ صَغَارٌ عِندَ ٱللَّهِ وَعَذَابٌۭ شَدِيدٌۢ بِمَا كَانُوا۟ يَمْكُرُونَ ؞ - Quran, Surah al-An'am (6), Ayah 124.
ٱلصَّلَاةُ خَيْرٌ مِنَ ٱلنَّوْمِ
Para 1 gives internal and external dimensions - and the internal are greater than the external. See Jidanni's unanswered post from 7 March 2019. From the plan below the annotated diagram, the dimensions are as below.
Dimensions | Length | Length | Breadth | Breadth |
---|---|---|---|---|
Face | SW | NE | SE | NW |
Gutter | 13.16 | 12.84 | 11.53 | 11.28 |
External | 12.04 | 11.68 | 10.18 | — |
Internal | 10.15 | 9.9 | 8.24 | 8.0 |
Ref. [8] gives dimensions of 12 m x 10.5 m x 15 m (L x W x H). The 12 m tallies well with the 12.04 above, but the 10.5 is significantly greater than the 10.18 figure.
Ref. [9] gives dimensions of 12 m x 10 m x 15 m (40' x 33' x 50') which is better accord with the external dimensions above.
Both refs give a height of 15 m, which is much more than the 13.1 m (43 ft) or (some claim 12.03 m (39.5 ft)) in para 1. [Note that 12.03 m may be an internal measurement. From the annotated diagram, there seems to be a parapet, but its height is not specified, nor is the thickness of the ceiling and roof; we know only that they're of teak capped with stainless steel. However, 12 m is a difference of 3 m from the 15 m height in refs [8] and [9]; even allowing for a parapet 1.5 m high, it's unlikely that the roof and ceiling would have a thickness of 1.5 m.]
Para 1 therefore should be amended as below (using only one decimal place, because it's inconsistent to have some measurements to two decimal places, and two to one decimal place). Note that I have interpolated a measurement of 9.9 m for the external NW face; I used the average wall thickness of the other three measurements and applied it to the 8 m measurement.
Para 2 mentions the golden door - bāb al-tawbah (also romanized as Baabut Taubah) - but item 11 refers to Babut Taubah. Is consistency possible?
Para 3 lists 13 items that are identified in the annotated diagram at the right — but the diagram shows 14 items! What is the 14th? The details of the diagram give it as "the station of Gabriel".
Corner | Descriptor | Arabic | Item no. | Arabic | Direction |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Eastern | Black stone | Al-Ḥajaru al-Aswad | 8 | East | |
Northern | Iraqi | Ruknu l-ˤĪrāqī | 11 | NE | |
Western | Levantine | Ruknu sh-Shāmī | 10 | Rukn e Shaami | NW |
Southern | Yemeni | Ruknu l-Yamanī | 9 | Rukan e Yamani | SW |
Corner | Descriptor | Arabic | Item no. | Arabic | Direction |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Eastern | Black stone | Al-Ḥajaru al-Aswad | 8 | E | |
Southern | Yemeni | Ruknu l-Yamanī | 9 | Rukan e Yamani | S |
Western | Syrian | Ruknu sh-Shāmī | 10 | Rukn e Shaami | W |
Northern | Iraqi | Ruknu l-ˤĪrāqī | 11 | N |
Prisoner of Zenda ( talk) 09:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
There is a discussion on Talk:Conversion_of_non-Islamic_places_of_worship_into_mosques#The_Ka'aba concerning whether the Kaaba should be included in that article. Everyone is welcome to join the discussion. M.Bitton ( talk) 22:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
I propose the merger of Tawaf into Kaaba. The Tawaf article is especially short (~5,000 bytes) compared to the ~50,000 bytes of the Kaaba and I think Tawaf can easily be explained in this article, similar to Sa'ee, which redirects to Safa and Marwa, a ~10,000-byte article of which ~3,000 is dedicated to explaining Sa'ee to the reader. -- AccordingClass ( talk) 06:30, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
In this edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Kaaba&oldid=974908094 , I added a link to Wikipedia's article on The Asatir in this sentence:
"In Samaritan literature, the Samaritan Book of the Secrets of Moses ( Asatir) claims that Ishmael and his eldest son Nebaioth built the Kaaba as well as the city of Mecca."
A few hours later, it was reverted: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Kaaba&oldid=975000725
I don't see an obvious reason why it was reverted. The link appears to have functioned correctly, and I think it's useful - I linked it because I was reading the article and wanted more information about the Asatir, wondered if the lack of a link meant there was no Wikipedia article, found that there was an article and thought it would be useful to another reader like me if it were linked.
Is there a policy I'm unaware of why that actually shouldn't be linked? Steorra ( talk) 06:46, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
Could someone with editing access delete the spam link in the ‘Architecture and interior’ section? This links to an external site selling plans for a 3D print. see, [2]. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C8:8E86:F400:8CE6:9A6D:42EC:6AB4 ( talk) 13:44, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
I am completely ignorant about this structure, so I have to tell you, while reading, my burning question is why are there no photos of the interior? Surely these millions of people passing through it every year must take a picture? Then I began to wonder, after mention of the steps and the cleaning, that maybe regular folks don't get to go inside. This really needs to be mentioned in the article, you can't make assumptions as to what people know. StarHOG ( Talk) 18:32, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
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Pinging John Maynard Friedman on this since he seems to be the main active editor on these articles: Is there any consensus or convention for having the title in italics? I can't find another religious building article with an italic title, even for ones like Parthenon and Taj Mahal. IronManCap ( talk) 14:56, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
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Change: However, by the time of Muhammad's era, it seems that the Kaaba was venerated as the shrine of Allah, the High God. Once a year, tribes from all around the Arabian Peninsula, whether Christian or pagan, would converge on Mecca to perform the Hajj pilgrimage, marking the widespread conviction that Allah was the same deity worshipped by monotheists.
To: However, by the time of Muhammad's era, it seems that the Kaaba was venerated as the shrine of Allah, the High God. Once a year, tribes from all around the Arabian Peninsula would converge on Mecca to perform the Hajj pilgrimage, which was a mark of the widespread conviction that Allah was the same deity worshipped by monotheists. At this time the Muslims would perform the Salat prayer facing Jerusalem, as instructed by Muhammad, and turning their backs on the pagan associations of the Kabah. Mkneubert ( talk) 11:02, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Need a mention in the lead that the Kaba is a pre-Islamic structure and place of worship, which was desecrated by Mohammad eg. by destroying 360 idols, before being taken over for Muslim use. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 18:10, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
Second best thing, I have added it in the infobox. Ip says: Work Better yes. ( talk) 14:35, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
The Name of the wife of Prophet Hazrat Ibrahim AS, is Hazrat Hajra AS (ہاجرہ) not hajar ATFSKETCHING ( talk) 05:53, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
Hājar ( Arabic: هَاجَر), known as Hagar in the Hebrew Bible, was the wife of the patriarch and Islamic prophet Ibrāhīm ( Abraham) and the mother of Ismā'īl ( Ishmael). She is a revered woman in the Islamic faith.
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
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kaab currently redirects here. Please add a hatnote to handle the disambiguation page Kaab (disambiguation)
Please add
{{redirect|Kaab|other uses|Kaab (disambiguation)}}
-- 65.92.246.142 ( talk) 18:41, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
. 27.147.191.36 ( talk) 08:30, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
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Hi, please remove the picure showing prophet mohammad .... this is considered highly blasphemous as muslims dont allow drawing of the prophet muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him.
Its the.picture where a black stone is held in a carpet. 2001:16A2:C15C:BADF:D01F:B284:2C09:AA11 ( talk) 14:34, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
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In this article is a percentage when it is supposed to say a multiplication symbol of 3.6 or something similar 2604:CB00:1D11:DC00:9494:D0E3:BD7C:562C ( talk) 04:03, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
According to the Saudi Ministry of Hajj and Umrah, 6,791,100 pilgrims arrived for the Umrah pilgrimage in the Islamic year AH 1439 (2017/2018 CE),[a] a 3.6% increase from the previous year, with 2,489,406 others arriving for the AH 1440 Hajj.
Why are there no pictures of the interior, even historical ones? There is only an architectural plan. Is there a prohibition of depiction of the interior? Is it that the people who access the interior don't think about taking pictures? Error ( talk) 09:29, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
The article states the following:
The town of Mecca is absent from any known geographies or histories written in the three centuries before the rise of Islam, although many Muslim and academic historians stress the power and importance of the pre-Islamic Mecca.[citation needed] They depict it as a city grown rich on the proceeds of the spice trade.[12] Patricia Crone believes that this is an exaggeration and that Mecca may only have been an outpost for trading with nomads for leather, cloth, and camel butter. Crone argues that if Mecca had been a well-known center of trade, it would have been mentioned by later authors such as Procopius, Nonnosus, or the Syrian church chroniclers writing in Syriac.[11] According to the Encyclopædia Britannica, "before the rise of Islam, it was revered as a sacred sanctuary and was a site of pilgrimage."[13]
This places too much value on the single and unconsensual opinion of Crone. I think the "Mecca" article offers a much more balanced and accurate summary:
/info/en/?search=Mecca#History
Historian Patricia Crone has cast doubt on the claim that Mecca was a major historical trading outpost. [1] [2] However, other scholars such as Glen W. Bowersock disagree and assert that Mecca was a major trading outpost. [3] [4] [5] Crone later on disregarded some of her theories. [6] She argues that Meccan trade relied on skins, hides, manufactured leather goods, clarified butter, Hijazi woollens, and camels. She suggests that most of these goods were destined for the Roman army, which is known to have required colossal quantities of leather and hides for its equipment.
I don't know if it is proper to copy content from other articles, but in the very least someone ought to rewrite the first given paragraph, based on the sources of the Mecca article.
2804:14D:90BC:81AA:8DC6:6FFE:4A2D:D6E2 (
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References
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In Islam it is not allowed to recreated the picture of Prophet Muhammad PBUH. I ran across this page by accident and I would like to request to remove the deprecation that shows the picture from this page 91.147.161.35 ( talk) 20:51, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
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I would change "Historian Patricia Crone has cast doubt on the claim that Mecca was a major historical trading outpost.[12][13] However, other scholars such as Glen W. Bowersock disagree and assert that Mecca was a major trading outpost." to "Historian Patricia Crone has cast doubt on the claim that Mecca was a major historical trading outpost.[12][13] However, other scholars such as Glen W. Bowersock disagree and assert that it was." or similar because it would avoid repetition and sound better. 2A02:2F0E:570A:D000:F88F:ADD6:BC90:B669 ( talk) 13:56, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
Someone's been changing the literal meaning of the Kaaba (the Cube) to 'the Nexus' for some reason. Namely @ Herbertrogers67 ballads one 15:45, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
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The typography of "Al-Ħajaru al-Aswad, "the Black Stone"" in the first line of Kaaba#Architecture_and_interior seems to be odd. As I am not Muslim nor an Arabic speaker, I can't know whether this is intentional or not, but it is a transliteration I'm unfamiliar with outside of Cyrillic. The direct site for Black Stone has no usage of that H with stroke, but instead uses "al-Ḥajar" with the dot underneath. It seems like it should probably be changed to be "al-Ḥajar" (as in the Black Stone article) instead of "Al-Ħajaru" like it currently exists here. Romanization_of_Arabic#Comparison_table seems to suggest the dot underneath, and that the line through the H is a "capitalized" attempt at using the International Phonetic Alphabet to denote the Voiceless pharyngeal fricative. Someone more familiar with Arabic-to-English transliterations could verify. 00:13, 28 October 2016 (UTC)~ Bush 6984
The diagram image key includes "14: The station of Gabriel", which is not actually present in the diagram. No explanation is given in the article, although there is a note: "Key to numbered parts translated from, accessed 2 December". I believe the note refers to the whole section. Any idea what this is or if it should be there? LordQwert ( talk) 22:58, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
Yuunus27 removed two sources in this
which they also tagged as
WP:MINOR. The reasoning was that not a credible resource
. I disagree as the first is by a university publication and the second is by a subject matter expert.
Emir of Wikipedia (
talk) 20:04, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
According to Sacred Relics (Topkapı Palace), the items in the Şadırvanlı Sofa include keys to the Kaaba.
Should this also be mentioned in this article? Andrewa ( talk) 08:45, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
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I think the article should address the following about the interior: Who has access to the interior and when? Are ceremonies held inside and what are they? What is used to get up to the high doors (i.e., ladder, ramp, staircase)? Are photographs or other illustrations allowed? Can any be shown on the page? WikiParker ( talk)
The last paragraph contained views of Karen Armstrong except parts of claims based on Ibn Ishaq. However some of the views of Armstrong do not mention her info from any Islamic traditional sources on anything that can be construed what is only from Islamic view. User:Debresser reverted my edit in which I had moved it. I moved it without explaining so sorry for that. As there are other views besides that of Armstrong, like of Uri Rubin, Winfried Corduan etc I've added them as well. However Armstrong's view and pf all others not directly from any Islamic sources should be shifted to modern independent views. 169.149.143.147 ( talk) 17:46, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
Yeah I definitely agree. Unless what the authors says came from a medieval Muslim religious source, it should be separate. 59.89.41.170 ( talk) 19:15, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
The below section was added to the article, and I removed it because I think it misrepresents 'science'. I don't think there is any science which supports the view, but it is rather a religious view. I think saying it is a scientific perspective is erroneous. What do other people think?
There are views that Kaaba is the centre of the earth. [1] As per some scientific perspective it is said to be 'the centre around which the earth's centre goes every lunar month'. [2] It is also called the 'bary centre' on which earth monthly wobble.
References
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Why is there a section about Ptolemy in the article? It doesn't mention the Kaaba at all, treating only the Macoraba vs. Mecca problem, which is off-topic for this article. -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 01:34, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
Why the removal of sourced text? Is inviolable a better translation of muharram than consecrated? Not sure why Karen Armstrong counts as an original Islamic source though, could be safely moved to contemporary views. Ibn Ishaq on the other hand is incontrovertibly ancient and Islamic. Cpsoper ( talk) 20:39, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
with sides measuring 11.03 m (36.2 ft) by 12.86 m (42.2 ft).
The interior walls, measuring 13 m (43 ft) by 9 m (30 ft),
Interior walls longer than exterior? Jidanni ( talk) 23:59, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
Christiany is objectively a more popular religion worldwide than Judaism. Why provide equivalents from Judaism, a religion few know about than to provide examples from Christianity? This stinks of someone trying to spark more hostility online between Muslims and Jews. ("hehe you guys have a relic you bow down to. well guess what, WE HAVE ONE TOO! OUR RELIGIONS ARE BASICALLY THE SAME!"). 95.169.230.47 ( talk) 20:32, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
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Update pilgrimage statistics at the end of the second paragraph to 2019 as they are outdated. Updated statistics can be found here: https://www.stats.gov.sa/en/28 CH2022 ( talk) 13:18, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
Could editors knowledgeable in correct use of Arabic script please examine this change and determine if it is correct? א. א. אינסטלציה and LissanX seem to have different interpretations and this is a very sensitive article. Per the normal editing cycle, it is now time for discussion and an edit war would benefit no-one. Thanks in advance. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 14:04, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
حَدَّثَنِي الْحَكَمُ بْنُ مُوسَى الْقَنْطَرِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعَيْبُ بْنُ إِسْحَاقَ، عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، قَالَتْ طَافَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فِي حَجَّةِ الْوَدَاعِ حَوْلَ الْكَعْبَةِ عَلَى بَعِيرِهِ يَسْتَلِمُ الرُّكْنَ كَرَاهِيَةَ أَنْ يُضْرَبَ عَنْهُ النَّاسُ .
وَحَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ أَبِي بَكْرٍ الْمُقَدَّمِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ عُلَيَّةَ، وَحَمَّادُ بْنُ زَيْدٍ، ح وَحَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ زَيْدٍ، ح وَحَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، وَزُهَيْرُ بْنُ حَرْبٍ، - وَاللَّفْظُ لَهُمَا - قَالاَ حَدَّثَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ ابْنُ عُلَيَّةَ، عَنْ أَيُّوبَ، عَنْ مُحَمَّدٍ، عَنْ عَبِيدَةَ، عَنْ عَلِيٍّ، قَالَ ذَكَرَ الْخَوَارِجَ فَقَالَ فِيهِمْ رَجُلٌ مُخْدَجُ الْيَدِ - أَوْ مُودَنُ الْيَدِ أَوْ مَثْدُونُ الْيَدِ - لَوْلاَ أَنْ تَبْطَرُوا لَحَدَّثْتُكُمْ بِمَا وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ يَقْتُلُونَهُمْ عَلَى لِسَانِ مُحَمَّدٍ صلى الله عليه وسلم - قَالَ - قُلْتُ آنْتَ سَمِعْتَهُ مِنْ مُحَمَّدٍ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ إِي وَرَبِّ الْكَعْبَةِ إِي وَرَبِّ الْكَعْبَةِ إِي وَرَبِّ الْكَعْبَةِ .
أَخْبَرَنَا يُوسُفُ بْنُ عِيسَى، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا الْفَضْلُ بْنُ مُوسَى، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا مِسْعَرٌ، عَنْ مَعْبَدِ بْنِ خَالِدٍ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ يَسَارٍ، عَنْ قُتَيْلَةَ، - امْرَأَةٌ مِنْ جُهَيْنَةَ - أَنَّ يَهُودِيًّا، أَتَى النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقَالَ إِنَّكُمْ تُنَدِّدُونَ وَإِنَّكُمْ تُشْرِكُونَ تَقُولُونَ مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ وَشِئْتَ وَتَقُولُونَ وَالْكَعْبَةِ . فَأَمَرَهُمُ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم إِذَا أَرَادُوا أَنْ يَحْلِفُوا أَنْ يَقُولُوا "وَرَبِّ الْكَعْبَةِ ". وَيَقُولُونَ " مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ ثُمَّ شِئْتَ " .
So if I can summarize: there's one glyph that is at issue. א. א. אינסטלציה has looked at it and decided it is a waslah, which is improper in that position. LissanX has said, "No, that's not a waslah it's a hamzah or sometimes an alif." Could one of you post, maybe, something like ad official source? I think if we use these glyphs the same way, say, the Saudi government does, then we know what is correct. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 02:08, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ ؞ ٱلْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ ٱلْعَالَمِينَ ؞ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ ؞
- Quran, Surah al-Fatihah (1), Ayahs 1-3.
ٱلَّذِينَ آتَيْنَاهُمُ ٱلْكِتَابَ يَعْرِفُونَهُۥ كَمَا يَعْرِفُونَ أَبْنَآءَهُمُ ۘ ٱلَّذِينَ خَسِرُوٓا۟ أَنفُسَهُمْ فَهُمْ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ ؞ - Quran, Surah al-An'am (6), Ayah 20.
وَإِذَا جَآءَتْهُمْ آيَةٌۭ قَالُوا۟ لَن نُّؤْمِنَ حَتَّىٰ نُؤْتَىٰ مِثْلَ مَآ أُوتِيَرُسُلُ ٱللَّهِ ۘ ٱللَّهُ أَعْلَمُ حَيْثُ يَجْعَلُ رِسَالَتَهُۥ ۗ سَيُصِيبُ ٱلَّذِينَ أَجْرَمُوا۟ صَغَارٌ عِندَ ٱللَّهِ وَعَذَابٌۭ شَدِيدٌۢ بِمَا كَانُوا۟ يَمْكُرُونَ ؞ - Quran, Surah al-An'am (6), Ayah 124.
ٱلصَّلَاةُ خَيْرٌ مِنَ ٱلنَّوْمِ
Para 1 gives internal and external dimensions - and the internal are greater than the external. See Jidanni's unanswered post from 7 March 2019. From the plan below the annotated diagram, the dimensions are as below.
Dimensions | Length | Length | Breadth | Breadth |
---|---|---|---|---|
Face | SW | NE | SE | NW |
Gutter | 13.16 | 12.84 | 11.53 | 11.28 |
External | 12.04 | 11.68 | 10.18 | — |
Internal | 10.15 | 9.9 | 8.24 | 8.0 |
Ref. [8] gives dimensions of 12 m x 10.5 m x 15 m (L x W x H). The 12 m tallies well with the 12.04 above, but the 10.5 is significantly greater than the 10.18 figure.
Ref. [9] gives dimensions of 12 m x 10 m x 15 m (40' x 33' x 50') which is better accord with the external dimensions above.
Both refs give a height of 15 m, which is much more than the 13.1 m (43 ft) or (some claim 12.03 m (39.5 ft)) in para 1. [Note that 12.03 m may be an internal measurement. From the annotated diagram, there seems to be a parapet, but its height is not specified, nor is the thickness of the ceiling and roof; we know only that they're of teak capped with stainless steel. However, 12 m is a difference of 3 m from the 15 m height in refs [8] and [9]; even allowing for a parapet 1.5 m high, it's unlikely that the roof and ceiling would have a thickness of 1.5 m.]
Para 1 therefore should be amended as below (using only one decimal place, because it's inconsistent to have some measurements to two decimal places, and two to one decimal place). Note that I have interpolated a measurement of 9.9 m for the external NW face; I used the average wall thickness of the other three measurements and applied it to the 8 m measurement.
Para 2 mentions the golden door - bāb al-tawbah (also romanized as Baabut Taubah) - but item 11 refers to Babut Taubah. Is consistency possible?
Para 3 lists 13 items that are identified in the annotated diagram at the right — but the diagram shows 14 items! What is the 14th? The details of the diagram give it as "the station of Gabriel".
Corner | Descriptor | Arabic | Item no. | Arabic | Direction |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Eastern | Black stone | Al-Ḥajaru al-Aswad | 8 | East | |
Northern | Iraqi | Ruknu l-ˤĪrāqī | 11 | NE | |
Western | Levantine | Ruknu sh-Shāmī | 10 | Rukn e Shaami | NW |
Southern | Yemeni | Ruknu l-Yamanī | 9 | Rukan e Yamani | SW |
Corner | Descriptor | Arabic | Item no. | Arabic | Direction |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Eastern | Black stone | Al-Ḥajaru al-Aswad | 8 | E | |
Southern | Yemeni | Ruknu l-Yamanī | 9 | Rukan e Yamani | S |
Western | Syrian | Ruknu sh-Shāmī | 10 | Rukn e Shaami | W |
Northern | Iraqi | Ruknu l-ˤĪrāqī | 11 | N |
Prisoner of Zenda ( talk) 09:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
There is a discussion on Talk:Conversion_of_non-Islamic_places_of_worship_into_mosques#The_Ka'aba concerning whether the Kaaba should be included in that article. Everyone is welcome to join the discussion. M.Bitton ( talk) 22:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
I propose the merger of Tawaf into Kaaba. The Tawaf article is especially short (~5,000 bytes) compared to the ~50,000 bytes of the Kaaba and I think Tawaf can easily be explained in this article, similar to Sa'ee, which redirects to Safa and Marwa, a ~10,000-byte article of which ~3,000 is dedicated to explaining Sa'ee to the reader. -- AccordingClass ( talk) 06:30, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
In this edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Kaaba&oldid=974908094 , I added a link to Wikipedia's article on The Asatir in this sentence:
"In Samaritan literature, the Samaritan Book of the Secrets of Moses ( Asatir) claims that Ishmael and his eldest son Nebaioth built the Kaaba as well as the city of Mecca."
A few hours later, it was reverted: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Kaaba&oldid=975000725
I don't see an obvious reason why it was reverted. The link appears to have functioned correctly, and I think it's useful - I linked it because I was reading the article and wanted more information about the Asatir, wondered if the lack of a link meant there was no Wikipedia article, found that there was an article and thought it would be useful to another reader like me if it were linked.
Is there a policy I'm unaware of why that actually shouldn't be linked? Steorra ( talk) 06:46, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
Could someone with editing access delete the spam link in the ‘Architecture and interior’ section? This links to an external site selling plans for a 3D print. see, [2]. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C8:8E86:F400:8CE6:9A6D:42EC:6AB4 ( talk) 13:44, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
I am completely ignorant about this structure, so I have to tell you, while reading, my burning question is why are there no photos of the interior? Surely these millions of people passing through it every year must take a picture? Then I began to wonder, after mention of the steps and the cleaning, that maybe regular folks don't get to go inside. This really needs to be mentioned in the article, you can't make assumptions as to what people know. StarHOG ( Talk) 18:32, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
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Pinging John Maynard Friedman on this since he seems to be the main active editor on these articles: Is there any consensus or convention for having the title in italics? I can't find another religious building article with an italic title, even for ones like Parthenon and Taj Mahal. IronManCap ( talk) 14:56, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
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Change: However, by the time of Muhammad's era, it seems that the Kaaba was venerated as the shrine of Allah, the High God. Once a year, tribes from all around the Arabian Peninsula, whether Christian or pagan, would converge on Mecca to perform the Hajj pilgrimage, marking the widespread conviction that Allah was the same deity worshipped by monotheists.
To: However, by the time of Muhammad's era, it seems that the Kaaba was venerated as the shrine of Allah, the High God. Once a year, tribes from all around the Arabian Peninsula would converge on Mecca to perform the Hajj pilgrimage, which was a mark of the widespread conviction that Allah was the same deity worshipped by monotheists. At this time the Muslims would perform the Salat prayer facing Jerusalem, as instructed by Muhammad, and turning their backs on the pagan associations of the Kabah. Mkneubert ( talk) 11:02, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Need a mention in the lead that the Kaba is a pre-Islamic structure and place of worship, which was desecrated by Mohammad eg. by destroying 360 idols, before being taken over for Muslim use. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 18:10, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
Second best thing, I have added it in the infobox. Ip says: Work Better yes. ( talk) 14:35, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
The Name of the wife of Prophet Hazrat Ibrahim AS, is Hazrat Hajra AS (ہاجرہ) not hajar ATFSKETCHING ( talk) 05:53, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
Hājar ( Arabic: هَاجَر), known as Hagar in the Hebrew Bible, was the wife of the patriarch and Islamic prophet Ibrāhīm ( Abraham) and the mother of Ismā'īl ( Ishmael). She is a revered woman in the Islamic faith.
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
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kaab currently redirects here. Please add a hatnote to handle the disambiguation page Kaab (disambiguation)
Please add
{{redirect|Kaab|other uses|Kaab (disambiguation)}}
-- 65.92.246.142 ( talk) 18:41, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
. 27.147.191.36 ( talk) 08:30, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
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Hi, please remove the picure showing prophet mohammad .... this is considered highly blasphemous as muslims dont allow drawing of the prophet muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him.
Its the.picture where a black stone is held in a carpet. 2001:16A2:C15C:BADF:D01F:B284:2C09:AA11 ( talk) 14:34, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
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In this article is a percentage when it is supposed to say a multiplication symbol of 3.6 or something similar 2604:CB00:1D11:DC00:9494:D0E3:BD7C:562C ( talk) 04:03, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
According to the Saudi Ministry of Hajj and Umrah, 6,791,100 pilgrims arrived for the Umrah pilgrimage in the Islamic year AH 1439 (2017/2018 CE),[a] a 3.6% increase from the previous year, with 2,489,406 others arriving for the AH 1440 Hajj.
Why are there no pictures of the interior, even historical ones? There is only an architectural plan. Is there a prohibition of depiction of the interior? Is it that the people who access the interior don't think about taking pictures? Error ( talk) 09:29, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
The article states the following:
The town of Mecca is absent from any known geographies or histories written in the three centuries before the rise of Islam, although many Muslim and academic historians stress the power and importance of the pre-Islamic Mecca.[citation needed] They depict it as a city grown rich on the proceeds of the spice trade.[12] Patricia Crone believes that this is an exaggeration and that Mecca may only have been an outpost for trading with nomads for leather, cloth, and camel butter. Crone argues that if Mecca had been a well-known center of trade, it would have been mentioned by later authors such as Procopius, Nonnosus, or the Syrian church chroniclers writing in Syriac.[11] According to the Encyclopædia Britannica, "before the rise of Islam, it was revered as a sacred sanctuary and was a site of pilgrimage."[13]
This places too much value on the single and unconsensual opinion of Crone. I think the "Mecca" article offers a much more balanced and accurate summary:
/info/en/?search=Mecca#History
Historian Patricia Crone has cast doubt on the claim that Mecca was a major historical trading outpost. [1] [2] However, other scholars such as Glen W. Bowersock disagree and assert that Mecca was a major trading outpost. [3] [4] [5] Crone later on disregarded some of her theories. [6] She argues that Meccan trade relied on skins, hides, manufactured leather goods, clarified butter, Hijazi woollens, and camels. She suggests that most of these goods were destined for the Roman army, which is known to have required colossal quantities of leather and hides for its equipment.
I don't know if it is proper to copy content from other articles, but in the very least someone ought to rewrite the first given paragraph, based on the sources of the Mecca article.
2804:14D:90BC:81AA:8DC6:6FFE:4A2D:D6E2 (
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References
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In Islam it is not allowed to recreated the picture of Prophet Muhammad PBUH. I ran across this page by accident and I would like to request to remove the deprecation that shows the picture from this page 91.147.161.35 ( talk) 20:51, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
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I would change "Historian Patricia Crone has cast doubt on the claim that Mecca was a major historical trading outpost.[12][13] However, other scholars such as Glen W. Bowersock disagree and assert that Mecca was a major trading outpost." to "Historian Patricia Crone has cast doubt on the claim that Mecca was a major historical trading outpost.[12][13] However, other scholars such as Glen W. Bowersock disagree and assert that it was." or similar because it would avoid repetition and sound better. 2A02:2F0E:570A:D000:F88F:ADD6:BC90:B669 ( talk) 13:56, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
Someone's been changing the literal meaning of the Kaaba (the Cube) to 'the Nexus' for some reason. Namely @ Herbertrogers67 ballads one 15:45, 22 May 2023 (UTC)