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KTVX used to broadcast under the callsign "KCPX". This information was previously placed under "Former Affiliations" in the infobox, which I don't think was fitting. I would place it under a section on the station's history, but I don't know that much about the station, so I didn't start such a section. I'm putting this here for reference. - Hinto 02:04, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
If you search on Google (I will leave the search to you rather than figuring out the external references thing for now), you will find that the experimental call sign was W6XIS, not W6SIX. RichOrem ( talk) 00:36, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
A section on a high-profile incident of censorship that made all the papers has been removed twice. I have added it back. If someone has a legitimate reason for changing it other than trying to censor the station's image, I would be far more receptive to edits designed to make the paragraph more accurate or balanced than censoring it.
The current form of the paragraph on the censorship incident now mentions KSL as a station not giving in to censorship. But KSL is NBC, which just apparently turned down advertising of a film about the Dixie Chicks', because "they are disparaging of President Bush." This was not a local incident as the KTVX censorship incident claimed to be. 198.60.22.24 18:16, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
One user with multiple accounts ( User:RSPW Poster & User:RSPW Coaster) is removing the reference to censorship by ClearChannel and the ownership of rival station KSL-TV with absolutely no justification. Can we have this article protected from said abuse? Chadbryant 22:02, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
I would say keep the paragraph but remove the line about KSL and the mormons. If it made a national paper it is news worthy. But at the same time pushing an agenda of making ksl, and the mormons, look "good" is not good NPOV. A 09:27, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
So RSPW, are you going to talk about the article in here and come to a compromise or are you just going to keep reverting in hopes of getting a ban? I think my proposal of keeping the paragraph but removing the reference to ksl and the lds church is fair, but by mindlessly reverting you are making it hard to make the case for it. A 01:09, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
A asked for a 3rd party. Here it is: this revert war must stop. My suggestion is this: it is evident by the source article that the information in the disputed paragraph is factual and informative. However, the wording of the paragraph could be better adjusted. By adjusting the positioning of the conjectured sentence in the paragraph so it is more of a context then an extra point would make it more worthwhile. So perhaps saying which stations did screen the ad would have more merit then the statement that KTVX was the only station, which has what I would perceive as negative connotations. Just my 2 cents. MyNameIsNotBob 06:59, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
Who owns the stations is very relevant, as is the statement made by the KSL-TV rep. I am content to let people figure that out for themselves by following the reference (or a hundred others on the web that mentioned it, search for keywords ktvx, sheehan, ksl) but having it in the article is not a bad thing. Chadbryant is technically right in changing the name of the Church, for several reasons, but wrong in insisting on it to the point where there is a war over it and vandalism overshadows the content of the article (and I wouldn't have bothered changing the name in the first place). On the other hand, I am not sure he can be blamed, with the wacko behavior of RSPW who keeps censoring all the information in this article that was not placed there by the Clear Channel shill and has apparently thus far only done harm to the article, as far as I know and his edits have regularly gone way beyond what he claimed was wrong with the article, invalidating whatever argument he felt he had. It seems like he has some vendetta and stalks Chadbryant who probably goes around making harmless corrections to the references of the Mormon church, which is probably what brought him to the article. The RSPW rant above speaks for itself. Mezle 23:00, 6 December 2005 (UTC) (formerly posting as 198.60.22.24)
Unfortunately, User:RSPW Coaster is still engaging in his revert war, well beyond the 3RR rule. His edits have done nothing more than insert style-violating and nonsensical material into the article. Chadbryant 01:48, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
How about this? just stop, remove all contentious stuff on the page, and wait for three (3) days. Seventy-two (72) hours. During that time, maybe imagine that a firestorm destroys half your city; or that doctors announce they have discovered a cure for cancer. Then reflect about how unimportant this Wikipedia edit issue here is in the great scheme of things. Breathe deeply, feel glad to be alive, and realize that you are a good person and the other party in this edit war probably has people who think they are a good person as well.
Then comes the easy part, just be flexible and clever and come up with something for the article that you can both live with before moving on.
Please for the sake of all of us, agree to start with a three-day cooling off period, I mean really. RomaC 14:52, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Several users are in violation of the three revert rule, an action which warrants being blocked. To be fair to all parties involved, please read WP:3RR and discuss your changes rather than revert warring. Hall Monitor 21:35, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Alright the article has been modified to read as follows:
During George W. Bush's visit to Salt Lake City to speak to the Veterans of Foreign Wars on August 22, 2005, KTVX was the only local television station that did not air the paid political message of Cindy Sheehan against the war in Iraq[1]. The station's owners Clear Channel Communications claimed that the ad would offend its viewers. However, rival KSL-TV did not hesitate to air the ad.
Would everyone please leave it alone. A 02:55, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I have protected this page (hopefully on The wrong version) with a reference to WP:LAME in the protection message. You people are acting in a manner difficult to distinguish from idiots. Please stop doing so - David Gerard 08:20, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
72 hours is over. Voting is now closed. Please see below.
Alright now that the article is locked and hopefully those involved will cool down, we can get back to some constructive debate on the topic. There are three options as I see it, however please add another if you feel it is appropriate. Add a vote for the option you think should be on the page and after a few days we can hopefully put this dead, bloody, and beaten horse to pasture. I am going to attempt to invite all those who have edited this article in the past as well as other Utah wikipedias via talk pages, however everyone should be allowed to vote.
(let me butt in here with a note on the Options 1,2 &4 - we now seem to have arrived at the understanding that the following is not correct: "KTVX was the only local television station that did not air...(the ad)" as it is being reported that there are 11 stations in the market -four were approached and one refused- so in all eight stations did not air the ad. We could say KTVX was the only station that "refused" to air the ad but I am not quite bold enough to edit Options which people have already voted on) RomaC 05:03, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
Option #1 - Pre edit war Version:
During George W. Bush's visit to Salt Lake City to speak to the Veterans of Foreign Wars on August 22, 2005, KTVX was the only local television station that did not air the paid political message of Cindy Sheehan against the war in Iraq[1]. The station's owners Clear Channel Communications claimed that the ad would offend its viewers. However, rival KSL-TV, which is owned by the Mormon Church, did not hesitate to air the ad.
Votes:
I personally see Option #1 as the best option of all of the above. To be totally accurate the LDS church has not endorsed President Bush or the War in Iraq, however it seems that the vast majority of LDS Church members in Utah support President Bush and the Iraq War. It might be a good idea to point out Clear Channel's contributions to the Bush camp in 2000 and 2004. It might show a reason besides offending viewers why KTVX refused to air the commercial [[ Hypernick1980 08:49, 8 December 2005 (UTC)]]
Option #2 - Pre edit war Version minus reference to KSL & LDS Church:
During George W. Bush's visit to Salt Lake City to speak to the Veterans of Foreign Wars on August 22, 2005, KTVX was the only local television station that did not air the paid political message of Cindy Sheehan against the war in Iraq[1]. The station's owners Clear Channel Communications claimed that the ad would offend its viewers.
Votes:
Option #3 - Remove paragraph
Option #4 - Reworded paragraph
During the visit by US President George W. Bush to Salt Lake City to speak to the Veterans of Foreign Wars in August 2005, Cindy Sheehan ran a paid political message protesting against the war in Iraq. The advertisement was screened on all of the local television stations, including the LDS Church owned station KSL-TV. However, the owner's of KTVX, Clear Channel Communications, requested that the ad not be screened on KTVX as it may appear offensive to the local viewers.
Votes:
Option #5 - Pre edit war Version with two small revisions:
During George W. Bush's visit to Salt Lake City to speak to the Veterans of Foreign Wars on August 22, 2005, KTVX was the only local television station that did not refused to air the paid political message of Cindy Sheehan against the war in Iraq[1]. The station's owners Clear Channel Communications claimed that the ad would offend its viewers. However, rival KSL-TV, which is owned by the Mormon Church locally owned, did not hesitate to air the ad.
Votes:
Option #6: Yet another rewording...
During the visit by
US President
George W. Bush to Salt Lake City to speak to the Veterans of Foreign Wars in August 2005,
Cindy Sheehan ran was featured in a paid political message protesting against the war in
Iraq. The advertisement was screened on all of the other local television stations, including
KSL-TV, which is owned by
Bonneville International, the for-profit arm of the
LDS Church. However, the owner's of
KTVX,
Clear Channel Communications, requested that the ad not be screened on KTVX as it may appear offensive to the local viewers. KTVX managers said the content "could very well be offensive to our community in Utah, which has contributed more than its fair share of fighting soldiers and suffered significant loss of life in this Iraq war."
[1]
Votes:
Option #7: Yet another rewording...
During the visit by
US President
George W. Bush to Salt Lake City to speak to the Veterans of Foreign Wars in August 2005,
Cindy Sheehan ran was featured in a paid political message protesting against the war in
Iraq. The top four stations in the market (KSL, KSTU, KTVX and KUTV) were offered to be paid to air the ad, and KTVX declined the offer. The local station managers said the content "could very well be offensive to our community in Utah, which has contributed more than its fair share of fighting soldiers and suffered significant loss of life in this Iraq war."
[2]
Votes:
While I think the above discussion resulting from the survey is good - it is much to early to start voting on a version. To continue that discussion, imho, the key points of the controversy are:
KTVX's decsion, at least locally, would have been less controversial if KSL had also refused the ad - KTVX wouldn't have been the only station to do so for example. Especially since KSL is the station most often associated, in Utah, with being extremely sensitive to the community and making difficult decisions to not air specific material. That KSL would air the ad is a significant indicator and makes KTVX's action stand out.
That some are reading the connection between KSL and the LDS church as some attempt to positive spin is interesting since those are just the facts, now the wording is key here because some wording could imply a POV. Remember that implications (even ones we think are obvious and must be the only reason a person wants a specific fact included) are up to the reader to decide. We need to decide if the fact is notable and then present it in an NPOV manner. I think KSL's relationship with a large organization that may have an agenda is notable and failure to disclose that relationship would be inappropriate.
Finally some comments on wording.
That's it for now :) Trödel| talk 15:49, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Jon 04:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
It seems that the revert war was largely about the term "Mormon."
If, pending above discussion, the LDS Church is mentioned in the article, I think we should follow the LDS styleguide which suggests something like " The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("LDS Church"; see also Mormon)." This is more appropriate. "Mormons" is an imprecise term for Latter-day Saints or the LDS Church. Cool Hand Luke 02:33, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
Ten days is long enough protection for a lame edit war. -- Tony Sidaway| Talk 15:09, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
Polls are a bad idea, really, so don't hold another one. If you have substantial agreement on the right version (and honestly does it make that much difference?) then that should be enough for reasonable people to live with. -- Tony Sidaway| Talk 13:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
User Davodd has renamed this article from KTVX to KTVX-TV. I am not sure of his/her motivation, but I would like to point out that the license for this station is for the call letters KTVX, not for the call letters KTVX-TV, which would be a totaly different call sign. In some cases the FCC does append a -TV or -FM to a tv station, but in this case they did not. Is anyone opposed to moving the article back to KTVX? A 03:35, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
It looks like there has been some talk about this here and Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Broadcasting. I'm not sure what started Davodd on his spree of renames, but I don't see mention of any such wikipedia wide change. The line that I'd like to draw attention to from the second link is "Radio and television stations in North America should always be titled with their C---, W---, K--- or X---- call sign, with the suffix -TV, -FM or (AM) when necessary." (emphasis added). I would say that it is not needed on most of the TV stations in the SLC market, as few have the -TV designation listed as their callsign. I can see the argument to make all tv station pages have a uniform naming convention, but if this is the case, then it should be listed as such on the naming conventions page. A 07:19, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
I searched for the television portal, but didn't find it. I checked out the two articles above. The "standard" doesn't seem to be as straight-forward as I would have hoped. I referred the discussion of the naming of television stations to here, unless they have another place. Val42 01:27, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Interesting tidbit I found linked off of 121a0012's talk page: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Radio_Stations#Stations_with_call_signs. So is a mention in a pdf on the fcc site a good enough argument in support of keeping the page at -TV, or should we move it back? A 09:11, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
User Davodd has just responded to a request I made asking for him to step back in and provide some insight. He has decilned with a reason listed on my talk page for anyone who cares. As he is the only one who was for the pages to be -TV, I will go ahead and move all of the stations that do not have -TV in their callsign tonight. A 09:42, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
The page was moved to KTVX-TV again, I have left the following message on User
CFIF's talk page:
As we have talked about on the talk page for KTVX, the page should have been kept at KTVX and not moved to KTVX-TV. The FCC call letters for this station are KTVX. I refer you to Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Broadcasting. Please make note of the phrase "... should always be titled with the official call sign as assigned by that country's regulatory authority." (bold text mine). If you have anything to add to the conversation please bring it up on the talk page of KTVX, we already have a section that talks about the page name. A 02:40, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone else find it awesome in an ironic kinda way that someone from ip 207.230.140.240, an ip assigned to Clear Channel [5], is the one now(?) reverting the paragraph? Anyone know a netadmin at ClearChannel that would let slip the identity of the person, or at least station, that this ip is used at? A 01:04, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
I've gotten the IP 207.230.140.240 added to the blacklist on the bots in #wikipedia-en-vandalism on freenode. Whenever someone from that ip makes a change the bots will flag it in the channel. There is no garuntee that this will get the paragraph reverted quicker, more often, but it should make them a bit higher profile. The IP has been blocked again for another 24 hours ( Special:Ipblocklist). I doubt this will make any difference, it didn't last time, it is nice to get a daylong break from watching the page. A 23:12, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
In other news, I'm considering either emailing the technical contact listed on the arin entry for the ip block, or perhaps even calling them after the holidays. I'm sure that CC doesn't want it publicaly known that they, or an employee of their's, is trying to "clean up" the image of a CC station. Also, if you look at the number of different CC stations and other related articles they have edited, and the number of names this person has added, you will be amazed. The CC employee wouldn't know that Ron De Castro is the General Sales Manager of WWPR-FM. Either this is someone who has moved arround the corporation alot, or someone who works in some sort of corp. office job. A 07:27, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. Xiner ( talk, email) 20:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
It's not standard practice on Wikipedia for a television station's list of transmitters to be a separate article from the one on the television station itself. Is there a specific reason it should be allowed to stand in this case? Bearcat 10:48, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Another question I forgot to ask is, where did this information come from? If it's not published anywhere, then it'd be original research. But if there's a webpage with the same info, then we can link to that, and it'd be more authoritative. Xiner ( talk, email) 04:13, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Comment - I have created a KTVX proof of concept article in my user space, putting into effect a suggestion by User:Xiner. This should allow all translators to be listed in the main article without making it unreadable or too large for dial-up connections. It should also be an effective compromise that will resolve both this merge recommendation and the AfD nomination. Please review and comment below - your feedback is greatly appreciated. dhett ( talk • contribs) 07:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
And so concludes this merge discussion. Thank you, dhett. Xiner ( talk, email) 14:35, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
I could probably refine the first couple of sentences in the History section if someone could say exactly what the corporate structure was. Xiner ( talk, email) 02:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
I can't add this into the article due to WP:OR concerns, but I just happened to see the movie Psycho tonight on a beautiful 35mm print. In the movie, after Norman Bates is caught, theres a shot of a TV news van pulling up to the motel. The van is boldly emblazoned with "KTVX." It seems that the letters then belonged to a station in Muskogee, OK. There is some chatter about this on web forums, but nothing that qualifies as a reliable source. I searched some news databases with recent coverage, but it doesn't seem that any press has mentioned it since the mid-1990's at least. Just some mildly interesting trivia, I think. Cool Hand Luke 06:30, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Most of the TV articles have experimental dates in parentheses ... figured it was a common convention, so I put it back in. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Blueboy96 ( talk • contribs) 20:35, 8 May 2007 (UTC).
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KTVX used to broadcast under the callsign "KCPX". This information was previously placed under "Former Affiliations" in the infobox, which I don't think was fitting. I would place it under a section on the station's history, but I don't know that much about the station, so I didn't start such a section. I'm putting this here for reference. - Hinto 02:04, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
If you search on Google (I will leave the search to you rather than figuring out the external references thing for now), you will find that the experimental call sign was W6XIS, not W6SIX. RichOrem ( talk) 00:36, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
A section on a high-profile incident of censorship that made all the papers has been removed twice. I have added it back. If someone has a legitimate reason for changing it other than trying to censor the station's image, I would be far more receptive to edits designed to make the paragraph more accurate or balanced than censoring it.
The current form of the paragraph on the censorship incident now mentions KSL as a station not giving in to censorship. But KSL is NBC, which just apparently turned down advertising of a film about the Dixie Chicks', because "they are disparaging of President Bush." This was not a local incident as the KTVX censorship incident claimed to be. 198.60.22.24 18:16, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
One user with multiple accounts ( User:RSPW Poster & User:RSPW Coaster) is removing the reference to censorship by ClearChannel and the ownership of rival station KSL-TV with absolutely no justification. Can we have this article protected from said abuse? Chadbryant 22:02, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
I would say keep the paragraph but remove the line about KSL and the mormons. If it made a national paper it is news worthy. But at the same time pushing an agenda of making ksl, and the mormons, look "good" is not good NPOV. A 09:27, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
So RSPW, are you going to talk about the article in here and come to a compromise or are you just going to keep reverting in hopes of getting a ban? I think my proposal of keeping the paragraph but removing the reference to ksl and the lds church is fair, but by mindlessly reverting you are making it hard to make the case for it. A 01:09, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
A asked for a 3rd party. Here it is: this revert war must stop. My suggestion is this: it is evident by the source article that the information in the disputed paragraph is factual and informative. However, the wording of the paragraph could be better adjusted. By adjusting the positioning of the conjectured sentence in the paragraph so it is more of a context then an extra point would make it more worthwhile. So perhaps saying which stations did screen the ad would have more merit then the statement that KTVX was the only station, which has what I would perceive as negative connotations. Just my 2 cents. MyNameIsNotBob 06:59, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
Who owns the stations is very relevant, as is the statement made by the KSL-TV rep. I am content to let people figure that out for themselves by following the reference (or a hundred others on the web that mentioned it, search for keywords ktvx, sheehan, ksl) but having it in the article is not a bad thing. Chadbryant is technically right in changing the name of the Church, for several reasons, but wrong in insisting on it to the point where there is a war over it and vandalism overshadows the content of the article (and I wouldn't have bothered changing the name in the first place). On the other hand, I am not sure he can be blamed, with the wacko behavior of RSPW who keeps censoring all the information in this article that was not placed there by the Clear Channel shill and has apparently thus far only done harm to the article, as far as I know and his edits have regularly gone way beyond what he claimed was wrong with the article, invalidating whatever argument he felt he had. It seems like he has some vendetta and stalks Chadbryant who probably goes around making harmless corrections to the references of the Mormon church, which is probably what brought him to the article. The RSPW rant above speaks for itself. Mezle 23:00, 6 December 2005 (UTC) (formerly posting as 198.60.22.24)
Unfortunately, User:RSPW Coaster is still engaging in his revert war, well beyond the 3RR rule. His edits have done nothing more than insert style-violating and nonsensical material into the article. Chadbryant 01:48, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
How about this? just stop, remove all contentious stuff on the page, and wait for three (3) days. Seventy-two (72) hours. During that time, maybe imagine that a firestorm destroys half your city; or that doctors announce they have discovered a cure for cancer. Then reflect about how unimportant this Wikipedia edit issue here is in the great scheme of things. Breathe deeply, feel glad to be alive, and realize that you are a good person and the other party in this edit war probably has people who think they are a good person as well.
Then comes the easy part, just be flexible and clever and come up with something for the article that you can both live with before moving on.
Please for the sake of all of us, agree to start with a three-day cooling off period, I mean really. RomaC 14:52, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Several users are in violation of the three revert rule, an action which warrants being blocked. To be fair to all parties involved, please read WP:3RR and discuss your changes rather than revert warring. Hall Monitor 21:35, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Alright the article has been modified to read as follows:
During George W. Bush's visit to Salt Lake City to speak to the Veterans of Foreign Wars on August 22, 2005, KTVX was the only local television station that did not air the paid political message of Cindy Sheehan against the war in Iraq[1]. The station's owners Clear Channel Communications claimed that the ad would offend its viewers. However, rival KSL-TV did not hesitate to air the ad.
Would everyone please leave it alone. A 02:55, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I have protected this page (hopefully on The wrong version) with a reference to WP:LAME in the protection message. You people are acting in a manner difficult to distinguish from idiots. Please stop doing so - David Gerard 08:20, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
72 hours is over. Voting is now closed. Please see below.
Alright now that the article is locked and hopefully those involved will cool down, we can get back to some constructive debate on the topic. There are three options as I see it, however please add another if you feel it is appropriate. Add a vote for the option you think should be on the page and after a few days we can hopefully put this dead, bloody, and beaten horse to pasture. I am going to attempt to invite all those who have edited this article in the past as well as other Utah wikipedias via talk pages, however everyone should be allowed to vote.
(let me butt in here with a note on the Options 1,2 &4 - we now seem to have arrived at the understanding that the following is not correct: "KTVX was the only local television station that did not air...(the ad)" as it is being reported that there are 11 stations in the market -four were approached and one refused- so in all eight stations did not air the ad. We could say KTVX was the only station that "refused" to air the ad but I am not quite bold enough to edit Options which people have already voted on) RomaC 05:03, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
Option #1 - Pre edit war Version:
During George W. Bush's visit to Salt Lake City to speak to the Veterans of Foreign Wars on August 22, 2005, KTVX was the only local television station that did not air the paid political message of Cindy Sheehan against the war in Iraq[1]. The station's owners Clear Channel Communications claimed that the ad would offend its viewers. However, rival KSL-TV, which is owned by the Mormon Church, did not hesitate to air the ad.
Votes:
I personally see Option #1 as the best option of all of the above. To be totally accurate the LDS church has not endorsed President Bush or the War in Iraq, however it seems that the vast majority of LDS Church members in Utah support President Bush and the Iraq War. It might be a good idea to point out Clear Channel's contributions to the Bush camp in 2000 and 2004. It might show a reason besides offending viewers why KTVX refused to air the commercial [[ Hypernick1980 08:49, 8 December 2005 (UTC)]]
Option #2 - Pre edit war Version minus reference to KSL & LDS Church:
During George W. Bush's visit to Salt Lake City to speak to the Veterans of Foreign Wars on August 22, 2005, KTVX was the only local television station that did not air the paid political message of Cindy Sheehan against the war in Iraq[1]. The station's owners Clear Channel Communications claimed that the ad would offend its viewers.
Votes:
Option #3 - Remove paragraph
Option #4 - Reworded paragraph
During the visit by US President George W. Bush to Salt Lake City to speak to the Veterans of Foreign Wars in August 2005, Cindy Sheehan ran a paid political message protesting against the war in Iraq. The advertisement was screened on all of the local television stations, including the LDS Church owned station KSL-TV. However, the owner's of KTVX, Clear Channel Communications, requested that the ad not be screened on KTVX as it may appear offensive to the local viewers.
Votes:
Option #5 - Pre edit war Version with two small revisions:
During George W. Bush's visit to Salt Lake City to speak to the Veterans of Foreign Wars on August 22, 2005, KTVX was the only local television station that did not refused to air the paid political message of Cindy Sheehan against the war in Iraq[1]. The station's owners Clear Channel Communications claimed that the ad would offend its viewers. However, rival KSL-TV, which is owned by the Mormon Church locally owned, did not hesitate to air the ad.
Votes:
Option #6: Yet another rewording...
During the visit by
US President
George W. Bush to Salt Lake City to speak to the Veterans of Foreign Wars in August 2005,
Cindy Sheehan ran was featured in a paid political message protesting against the war in
Iraq. The advertisement was screened on all of the other local television stations, including
KSL-TV, which is owned by
Bonneville International, the for-profit arm of the
LDS Church. However, the owner's of
KTVX,
Clear Channel Communications, requested that the ad not be screened on KTVX as it may appear offensive to the local viewers. KTVX managers said the content "could very well be offensive to our community in Utah, which has contributed more than its fair share of fighting soldiers and suffered significant loss of life in this Iraq war."
[1]
Votes:
Option #7: Yet another rewording...
During the visit by
US President
George W. Bush to Salt Lake City to speak to the Veterans of Foreign Wars in August 2005,
Cindy Sheehan ran was featured in a paid political message protesting against the war in
Iraq. The top four stations in the market (KSL, KSTU, KTVX and KUTV) were offered to be paid to air the ad, and KTVX declined the offer. The local station managers said the content "could very well be offensive to our community in Utah, which has contributed more than its fair share of fighting soldiers and suffered significant loss of life in this Iraq war."
[2]
Votes:
While I think the above discussion resulting from the survey is good - it is much to early to start voting on a version. To continue that discussion, imho, the key points of the controversy are:
KTVX's decsion, at least locally, would have been less controversial if KSL had also refused the ad - KTVX wouldn't have been the only station to do so for example. Especially since KSL is the station most often associated, in Utah, with being extremely sensitive to the community and making difficult decisions to not air specific material. That KSL would air the ad is a significant indicator and makes KTVX's action stand out.
That some are reading the connection between KSL and the LDS church as some attempt to positive spin is interesting since those are just the facts, now the wording is key here because some wording could imply a POV. Remember that implications (even ones we think are obvious and must be the only reason a person wants a specific fact included) are up to the reader to decide. We need to decide if the fact is notable and then present it in an NPOV manner. I think KSL's relationship with a large organization that may have an agenda is notable and failure to disclose that relationship would be inappropriate.
Finally some comments on wording.
That's it for now :) Trödel| talk 15:49, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Jon 04:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
It seems that the revert war was largely about the term "Mormon."
If, pending above discussion, the LDS Church is mentioned in the article, I think we should follow the LDS styleguide which suggests something like " The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("LDS Church"; see also Mormon)." This is more appropriate. "Mormons" is an imprecise term for Latter-day Saints or the LDS Church. Cool Hand Luke 02:33, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
Ten days is long enough protection for a lame edit war. -- Tony Sidaway| Talk 15:09, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
Polls are a bad idea, really, so don't hold another one. If you have substantial agreement on the right version (and honestly does it make that much difference?) then that should be enough for reasonable people to live with. -- Tony Sidaway| Talk 13:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
User Davodd has renamed this article from KTVX to KTVX-TV. I am not sure of his/her motivation, but I would like to point out that the license for this station is for the call letters KTVX, not for the call letters KTVX-TV, which would be a totaly different call sign. In some cases the FCC does append a -TV or -FM to a tv station, but in this case they did not. Is anyone opposed to moving the article back to KTVX? A 03:35, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
It looks like there has been some talk about this here and Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Broadcasting. I'm not sure what started Davodd on his spree of renames, but I don't see mention of any such wikipedia wide change. The line that I'd like to draw attention to from the second link is "Radio and television stations in North America should always be titled with their C---, W---, K--- or X---- call sign, with the suffix -TV, -FM or (AM) when necessary." (emphasis added). I would say that it is not needed on most of the TV stations in the SLC market, as few have the -TV designation listed as their callsign. I can see the argument to make all tv station pages have a uniform naming convention, but if this is the case, then it should be listed as such on the naming conventions page. A 07:19, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
I searched for the television portal, but didn't find it. I checked out the two articles above. The "standard" doesn't seem to be as straight-forward as I would have hoped. I referred the discussion of the naming of television stations to here, unless they have another place. Val42 01:27, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Interesting tidbit I found linked off of 121a0012's talk page: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Radio_Stations#Stations_with_call_signs. So is a mention in a pdf on the fcc site a good enough argument in support of keeping the page at -TV, or should we move it back? A 09:11, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
User Davodd has just responded to a request I made asking for him to step back in and provide some insight. He has decilned with a reason listed on my talk page for anyone who cares. As he is the only one who was for the pages to be -TV, I will go ahead and move all of the stations that do not have -TV in their callsign tonight. A 09:42, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
The page was moved to KTVX-TV again, I have left the following message on User
CFIF's talk page:
As we have talked about on the talk page for KTVX, the page should have been kept at KTVX and not moved to KTVX-TV. The FCC call letters for this station are KTVX. I refer you to Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Broadcasting. Please make note of the phrase "... should always be titled with the official call sign as assigned by that country's regulatory authority." (bold text mine). If you have anything to add to the conversation please bring it up on the talk page of KTVX, we already have a section that talks about the page name. A 02:40, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone else find it awesome in an ironic kinda way that someone from ip 207.230.140.240, an ip assigned to Clear Channel [5], is the one now(?) reverting the paragraph? Anyone know a netadmin at ClearChannel that would let slip the identity of the person, or at least station, that this ip is used at? A 01:04, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
I've gotten the IP 207.230.140.240 added to the blacklist on the bots in #wikipedia-en-vandalism on freenode. Whenever someone from that ip makes a change the bots will flag it in the channel. There is no garuntee that this will get the paragraph reverted quicker, more often, but it should make them a bit higher profile. The IP has been blocked again for another 24 hours ( Special:Ipblocklist). I doubt this will make any difference, it didn't last time, it is nice to get a daylong break from watching the page. A 23:12, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
In other news, I'm considering either emailing the technical contact listed on the arin entry for the ip block, or perhaps even calling them after the holidays. I'm sure that CC doesn't want it publicaly known that they, or an employee of their's, is trying to "clean up" the image of a CC station. Also, if you look at the number of different CC stations and other related articles they have edited, and the number of names this person has added, you will be amazed. The CC employee wouldn't know that Ron De Castro is the General Sales Manager of WWPR-FM. Either this is someone who has moved arround the corporation alot, or someone who works in some sort of corp. office job. A 07:27, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. Xiner ( talk, email) 20:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
It's not standard practice on Wikipedia for a television station's list of transmitters to be a separate article from the one on the television station itself. Is there a specific reason it should be allowed to stand in this case? Bearcat 10:48, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Another question I forgot to ask is, where did this information come from? If it's not published anywhere, then it'd be original research. But if there's a webpage with the same info, then we can link to that, and it'd be more authoritative. Xiner ( talk, email) 04:13, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Comment - I have created a KTVX proof of concept article in my user space, putting into effect a suggestion by User:Xiner. This should allow all translators to be listed in the main article without making it unreadable or too large for dial-up connections. It should also be an effective compromise that will resolve both this merge recommendation and the AfD nomination. Please review and comment below - your feedback is greatly appreciated. dhett ( talk • contribs) 07:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
And so concludes this merge discussion. Thank you, dhett. Xiner ( talk, email) 14:35, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
I could probably refine the first couple of sentences in the History section if someone could say exactly what the corporate structure was. Xiner ( talk, email) 02:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
I can't add this into the article due to WP:OR concerns, but I just happened to see the movie Psycho tonight on a beautiful 35mm print. In the movie, after Norman Bates is caught, theres a shot of a TV news van pulling up to the motel. The van is boldly emblazoned with "KTVX." It seems that the letters then belonged to a station in Muskogee, OK. There is some chatter about this on web forums, but nothing that qualifies as a reliable source. I searched some news databases with recent coverage, but it doesn't seem that any press has mentioned it since the mid-1990's at least. Just some mildly interesting trivia, I think. Cool Hand Luke 06:30, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Most of the TV articles have experimental dates in parentheses ... figured it was a common convention, so I put it back in. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Blueboy96 ( talk • contribs) 20:35, 8 May 2007 (UTC).
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