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![]() | On 9 June 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Jutes (tribe). The result of the discussion was not moved. |
It's a little tricky to turn this article into nothing more than a redirect to [[the mens war ]]. While some authorities believe the two people are the same, one can discuss either people without reference to the other: the Geats relate to Swedish history, while the Jutes to English history. After this possible identity in the 6th century, neither country has much to do with each other until the Viking era. Combining the two articles leads to confusion. They are separate topics. -- llywrch 19:27, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
As far as I understand language experts and historians, the Jutes, Danes, Burgundians (Bornholm) and many other people have immigrated to Denmark. Some went on, some stayed. The language of east jutland and west jutland are very different in grammatics, which clearly indicates that these two populations, who were each joined by water and separated by land, are in fact originally two different people. However, they probably mixed so much that they cannot be distinguished by genes, but only by language and culture. The division by grammatics therefore indicates that we have Jutes in west jutland, Danes in east jutland and on the islands, and "east Danes" in Skåne and Bornholm. I guess that today they would also point at a significant polish heritage in the southern islands etc. This is too confusing to describe, but I think it is important that the article not only focuses on Jutes being the people living in Jutland, but also on the original people who immigrated and gave the name to that area. Dybdahl 16:24, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
"This would be fabulous. The relationship between Jutland, early Germanic migrations, a multitude of Goth/Geat-like named tribes and probably another multitude of other tribes in the neighbourhood would without doubt shed more light on this obscure people."
I am a student of Anglo-Saxon / Celtic history and recently I delivered a boat from Hannen in Sweden to Holland. Hannen is by the way some 5 miles into Sweden and is an old Viking 'launch pad' for raids into Europe. I stopped off at the very tip of Jutland to refuel. Whilst in the port I saw a grass covered escarpment above me. Looking up the Danish Harbour Master said 'that is where YOU (the English,) came from. There were dozens of long scars down the grass slopes. This must have been caused by hundreds of launchings of Jutish / Angle Keel Boats (like Viking Long Boats.) As soon as I looked at it I knew it was significant.
WP Cobbett 26 Jan 07 08.28am
Ref. text in photo used is not correct Text says: northern Schleswig - it is german wish thinking - only used by german people!
The text shall be changed to: southern Jytland (Sønderjylland in danish)
It was part of Germany from 1864 to 1920 - and then back to Denmark again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.185.226.198 ( talk) 22:39, 13 January 2009 (UTC) And "southern Schleswig" was part of Denmark from the earliest records we have until 1864. All of that area is southern Jutland.
The article attributes to Bede the claim that the Jutes were one of the 'three most powerful Germanic peoples of their time'. Are we sure this is correct? I would have guessed that his claim would have been that they were one of the three most powerful Germanic peoples around or relevant to Britain. (Given the geographical distribution of Germanic peoples from Greenland to the Volga, and the difficulty in individuating them into discrete groups, rendering a broader judgment seems problematic.) I understand, of course, that he could have simply overstated his case. If so, it might be good to mention that too. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I am could take a whack at clarifying this? MJM74 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:05, 24 July 2011 (UTC).
I would have to question this statement too. It seems more relevant to Bede's situation. The Franks were probably the most powerful people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.161.97.254 ( talk) 20:49, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
What are the other two most powerful people mentioned by Bede? RhinoMind ( talk) 00:40, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
As someone who has never been aware of the Jutes, the map of Jutland peninsula confused me. Where in relation to the rest of the world is Jutland peninsula? Razzo90 ( talk) 19:57, 25 November 2011 (UTC)Razzo90
Map of Magna Germania [1] by Ptolemy shows the peninsula later called Jutland as Cimbric Chersonese. ( 71.137.207.170 ( talk) 15:59, 19 April 2012 (UTC))
Where it states that "... and part of the East Frisian coast in northern Germany." it should say "... of the North Frisian coast..." or "Northern Friesland coast" to be correct(er). Unlike Northern Friesland, East Frisia is quite distant from Jutland and three German states away, bordering not Denmark but the Netherlands. Ipospot ( talk) 19:33, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Asser, who was Welsh, is writing at the end of the 9th century.Bede (who was writing sometime after tells us that the pagan Jutes of the Isle of Wight were wiped out by Caedwalla in 686CE,& St Wilfrid took a "quarter of the IOW for the Church". Soon after Wilfrid was restored to his diocese in Ripon by the Archbishop of Canterbury, who was "not above bribery", according to Wilfrid's biographer, Eddius Stephanus.(Eddie Stephens)which might imply sudden riches on the part of Wilfrid. This has caused apologists (after Bede) to assert that a quarter of the population survived & were converted and Asser follows this line of argument in attributing Jutish origins to Osburgh, whose ancestry is only known back to her father. I suggest that Alfred DID have Jutish ancestors from the Isle of wight but not through his mother. The only known survivor of the massacre was the sister of the last Jutish pagan King, Arwald, - whose name is unknown, but was married to the Jutish King of Kent at the time and they had a son, Wihtred, through whom the founder of the House of Wessex, Egbert, was descended.-- Streona ( talk) 15:09, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
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What is the relation between Jutes and Danes? Are the terms synonymous, or were they considered different peoples? Zacwill ( talk) 16:02, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
They spoke Proto-Norse? But in this map, Jutland is North Sea Germanic, not North Germanic. /info/en/?search=Ingvaeonic_languages#/media/File:Germanic_dialects_ca._AD_1.png-- Propatriamori ( talk) 12:14, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
The details of what language they (Jutes) spoke is totally unknown. There is possible information out there on the Internet. Runic inscriptions and such. (I'd imagine it would be very hard to find.) But, from my research and perspective; it was probably more than likely an Ingaevonic language rather than a Norse one. I would theorize personally; that the few Jutes that stayed in Denmark during Invasion Era likely were later captured and assimilated into speaking Old Norse; which then evolved into early Danish and the Danish people. One point to remember: the Proto-Norse languages are apparently much younger than the Ingaevonic languages by several centuries. —— DesertStormer ( talk) 23:17, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
The article currently says Jutes were of mixed race, but that's not true. They were North European, but might have included different tribes and subcultures. 77.233.228.141 ( talk) 12:11, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
A modern inhabitant of Jutland may have little relation to the historic Jutes who came to England 1,5 millenia ago. Still, if you in modern English want to refer to such a person (in Danish: "en jyde"), wouldn't the correct term be "a Jute"?
If so, this article needs to mention the fact - perhaps just one sentence in the lead, or a hat note, sth like
Right? Nø ( talk) 12:19, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
The article mentions the
"Eponymous" is a somewhat ambiguous concept; which is named after which? The article Jutland says the peninsula is named after the people, but that seems to contradict the parenthesis above. Which is it - do we know? Did Latin iutum refer to the peninsula or to the people or both - and if/when to the people: People on the island (Great Britain), people on the pepninsula (Jutland), or people in a part of the continent whe cannot pinpoint today? Nø ( talk) 08:15, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal ( talk) 20:26, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
– I'm requesting for the above articles to be moved to their respective new titles because the word 'jute' and name 'Jute' and their respective plurals are a bit ambiguous; the word 'jute(s)' (with a lowercase letter 'j') refers to a certain fibre material, while the name 'Jute(s)' (with a captial 'J') refers to an ancient Germanic tribe (with a capital 'J'), while their plurals refer to their respective topics, with a lowercase letter 'j' and capital 'J', respectively. PK2 ( talk) 06:30, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | On 9 June 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Jutes (tribe). The result of the discussion was not moved. |
It's a little tricky to turn this article into nothing more than a redirect to [[the mens war ]]. While some authorities believe the two people are the same, one can discuss either people without reference to the other: the Geats relate to Swedish history, while the Jutes to English history. After this possible identity in the 6th century, neither country has much to do with each other until the Viking era. Combining the two articles leads to confusion. They are separate topics. -- llywrch 19:27, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
As far as I understand language experts and historians, the Jutes, Danes, Burgundians (Bornholm) and many other people have immigrated to Denmark. Some went on, some stayed. The language of east jutland and west jutland are very different in grammatics, which clearly indicates that these two populations, who were each joined by water and separated by land, are in fact originally two different people. However, they probably mixed so much that they cannot be distinguished by genes, but only by language and culture. The division by grammatics therefore indicates that we have Jutes in west jutland, Danes in east jutland and on the islands, and "east Danes" in Skåne and Bornholm. I guess that today they would also point at a significant polish heritage in the southern islands etc. This is too confusing to describe, but I think it is important that the article not only focuses on Jutes being the people living in Jutland, but also on the original people who immigrated and gave the name to that area. Dybdahl 16:24, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
"This would be fabulous. The relationship between Jutland, early Germanic migrations, a multitude of Goth/Geat-like named tribes and probably another multitude of other tribes in the neighbourhood would without doubt shed more light on this obscure people."
I am a student of Anglo-Saxon / Celtic history and recently I delivered a boat from Hannen in Sweden to Holland. Hannen is by the way some 5 miles into Sweden and is an old Viking 'launch pad' for raids into Europe. I stopped off at the very tip of Jutland to refuel. Whilst in the port I saw a grass covered escarpment above me. Looking up the Danish Harbour Master said 'that is where YOU (the English,) came from. There were dozens of long scars down the grass slopes. This must have been caused by hundreds of launchings of Jutish / Angle Keel Boats (like Viking Long Boats.) As soon as I looked at it I knew it was significant.
WP Cobbett 26 Jan 07 08.28am
Ref. text in photo used is not correct Text says: northern Schleswig - it is german wish thinking - only used by german people!
The text shall be changed to: southern Jytland (Sønderjylland in danish)
It was part of Germany from 1864 to 1920 - and then back to Denmark again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.185.226.198 ( talk) 22:39, 13 January 2009 (UTC) And "southern Schleswig" was part of Denmark from the earliest records we have until 1864. All of that area is southern Jutland.
The article attributes to Bede the claim that the Jutes were one of the 'three most powerful Germanic peoples of their time'. Are we sure this is correct? I would have guessed that his claim would have been that they were one of the three most powerful Germanic peoples around or relevant to Britain. (Given the geographical distribution of Germanic peoples from Greenland to the Volga, and the difficulty in individuating them into discrete groups, rendering a broader judgment seems problematic.) I understand, of course, that he could have simply overstated his case. If so, it might be good to mention that too. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I am could take a whack at clarifying this? MJM74 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:05, 24 July 2011 (UTC).
I would have to question this statement too. It seems more relevant to Bede's situation. The Franks were probably the most powerful people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.161.97.254 ( talk) 20:49, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
What are the other two most powerful people mentioned by Bede? RhinoMind ( talk) 00:40, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
As someone who has never been aware of the Jutes, the map of Jutland peninsula confused me. Where in relation to the rest of the world is Jutland peninsula? Razzo90 ( talk) 19:57, 25 November 2011 (UTC)Razzo90
Map of Magna Germania [1] by Ptolemy shows the peninsula later called Jutland as Cimbric Chersonese. ( 71.137.207.170 ( talk) 15:59, 19 April 2012 (UTC))
Where it states that "... and part of the East Frisian coast in northern Germany." it should say "... of the North Frisian coast..." or "Northern Friesland coast" to be correct(er). Unlike Northern Friesland, East Frisia is quite distant from Jutland and three German states away, bordering not Denmark but the Netherlands. Ipospot ( talk) 19:33, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Asser, who was Welsh, is writing at the end of the 9th century.Bede (who was writing sometime after tells us that the pagan Jutes of the Isle of Wight were wiped out by Caedwalla in 686CE,& St Wilfrid took a "quarter of the IOW for the Church". Soon after Wilfrid was restored to his diocese in Ripon by the Archbishop of Canterbury, who was "not above bribery", according to Wilfrid's biographer, Eddius Stephanus.(Eddie Stephens)which might imply sudden riches on the part of Wilfrid. This has caused apologists (after Bede) to assert that a quarter of the population survived & were converted and Asser follows this line of argument in attributing Jutish origins to Osburgh, whose ancestry is only known back to her father. I suggest that Alfred DID have Jutish ancestors from the Isle of wight but not through his mother. The only known survivor of the massacre was the sister of the last Jutish pagan King, Arwald, - whose name is unknown, but was married to the Jutish King of Kent at the time and they had a son, Wihtred, through whom the founder of the House of Wessex, Egbert, was descended.-- Streona ( talk) 15:09, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Jutes. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
An editor has determined that the edit contains an error somewhere. Please follow the instructions below and mark the
|checked=
to true
Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 11:42, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
What is the relation between Jutes and Danes? Are the terms synonymous, or were they considered different peoples? Zacwill ( talk) 16:02, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
They spoke Proto-Norse? But in this map, Jutland is North Sea Germanic, not North Germanic. /info/en/?search=Ingvaeonic_languages#/media/File:Germanic_dialects_ca._AD_1.png-- Propatriamori ( talk) 12:14, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
The details of what language they (Jutes) spoke is totally unknown. There is possible information out there on the Internet. Runic inscriptions and such. (I'd imagine it would be very hard to find.) But, from my research and perspective; it was probably more than likely an Ingaevonic language rather than a Norse one. I would theorize personally; that the few Jutes that stayed in Denmark during Invasion Era likely were later captured and assimilated into speaking Old Norse; which then evolved into early Danish and the Danish people. One point to remember: the Proto-Norse languages are apparently much younger than the Ingaevonic languages by several centuries. —— DesertStormer ( talk) 23:17, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
The article currently says Jutes were of mixed race, but that's not true. They were North European, but might have included different tribes and subcultures. 77.233.228.141 ( talk) 12:11, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
A modern inhabitant of Jutland may have little relation to the historic Jutes who came to England 1,5 millenia ago. Still, if you in modern English want to refer to such a person (in Danish: "en jyde"), wouldn't the correct term be "a Jute"?
If so, this article needs to mention the fact - perhaps just one sentence in the lead, or a hat note, sth like
Right? Nø ( talk) 12:19, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
The article mentions the
"Eponymous" is a somewhat ambiguous concept; which is named after which? The article Jutland says the peninsula is named after the people, but that seems to contradict the parenthesis above. Which is it - do we know? Did Latin iutum refer to the peninsula or to the people or both - and if/when to the people: People on the island (Great Britain), people on the pepninsula (Jutland), or people in a part of the continent whe cannot pinpoint today? Nø ( talk) 08:15, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal ( talk) 20:26, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
– I'm requesting for the above articles to be moved to their respective new titles because the word 'jute' and name 'Jute' and their respective plurals are a bit ambiguous; the word 'jute(s)' (with a lowercase letter 'j') refers to a certain fibre material, while the name 'Jute(s)' (with a captial 'J') refers to an ancient Germanic tribe (with a capital 'J'), while their plurals refer to their respective topics, with a lowercase letter 'j' and capital 'J', respectively. PK2 ( talk) 06:30, 9 June 2024 (UTC)