The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the music video for the song "Justify My Love" was banned from appearing on
MTV,
MuchMusic, and
Musique Plus for its sexual imagery?
Current status: Good article
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content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following
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I removed the following passage from the section discussing the music video: Much of the imagery echoes an obscure French music video that came out in 1988. Unless one can reference the "obscure french music video" in question, this passage is of little use to anyone. --
Mrlopez2681 (
talk) 08:47, 27 January 2013 (UTC)reply
Trip hop?
"Composed as a midtempo song, "Justify My Love" is a trip-hop inspired song"
Urm, did
trip hop even really exist at the time? She/they must have been listening to a lot of underground English alt hip hop! In other words, can we find a source--
TangoTizerWolfstone (
talk) 16:26, 22 December 2014 (UTC)reply
The trip hop genre was not in the article for its first eight years. It was added by
CaliforniaDreamsFan back in August 2012 with
this major edit, changing a bunch of text and adding some refs. The refs are as follows:
Obviously the references added by CaliforniaDreamsFan do not support the trip hop genre.
Moving to today's world, my search of the internet for signs of the trip hop genre return only poor quality
Woozle effect stuff, with the writer cribbing from Wikipedia.
Binksternet (
talk) 01:39, 27 July 2022 (UTC)reply
Question for
Aspects: What basis do you have for
this restoration of the audio listening example? The problem with the sample (and all others lacking a description) is that it fails
WP:NFCCP reason number 8:
Contextual significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding.
Basically, the article must discuss something that requires a non-free audio sample for understanding. The audio sample must answer a need to demonstrate more fully something described in words. Can you tell me what part of the article requires the audio sample? If you can do that, can you compose a description for the audio sample that tells the reader what they are listening for?
Good examples of this may be seen at the articles
Heavy metal music,
Power metal,
Prophet-5 and Back in the High Life. The audio listening examples in these articles are accompanied by descriptions of what the reader should be paying attention to. Something like that is required here. In fact, every non-free listening example requires this step.
Binksternet (
talk) 22:02, 9 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Like cover art in
WP:NFCI, "for visual identification only in the context of critical commentary of that item (not for identification without critical commentary).", it seems to reason that audio files could be used for sound identification in song articles, but would need critical commentary in articles other than the song articles. All of the examples you provided are audio files not in use in song articles.
Aspects (
talk) 04:11, 11 June 2021 (UTC)reply
There is a higher bar for non-free music sound files, higher than for non-free cover art which serves in real life as a promotional tool for the actual audio product. The cover art can be viewed for free, but the audio must be purchased.
Binksternet (
talk) 04:23, 11 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Aspects, I can see that you have been arguing your point since at least 2013:
Talk:Some Kind of Bliss#Fair use of sound file. The result of that discussion was deletion of the sound file. If you wish to change the consensus, please start a project-wide RfC to change
Wikipedia:Non-free_content#Audio_clips to say that one non-free sound file may be used without contextual commentary in every song article.
Binksternet (
talk) 04:54, 11 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Split
Would not be a good idea to split single and music video? There exist a lot of literature for both formats, considering this is a 1990 release, and is the first music video ever released in the USA. Censored in at least USA and Canada. Records for a music video format, sales available, music video charts (available through WorldRadioHistory/AmericanRadioHistory), price, listicles, cultural references (Beyoncé channeled the video, for example). Much like "We Found Love (music video)" and "We Found Love". --
Apoxyomenus (
talk) 02:48, 21 January 2023 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This will run over the course of two days; you deserve it after three months in the queue! --
K. Peake 06:31, 12 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Infobox and lead
Remove house from genres since that is only a groove, move refs to only being in the body where you still need to write out
trip hop in comp and linked to itself, replace commas with bullet points per
Template:Infobox song and add experimental pop per the body
"Kravitz also produced the song" → "Kravitz also handled the production"
"from The Immaculate Collection on" → "from the album on"
Why is there no comma before dance like in the body? Also, you need to mention trip hop here too.
"Madonna and was described as a "spoken-word ode to releasing your" → "Madonna as she releases "your" to be less repetitve
Finland and Italy positions need to be written out in prose
"Netherlands, Switzerland and" → "the Netherlands, Switzerland, and" plus the above applies here
"to be certified multiplatinum" → "to be certified multiplatinum in the US"
I am confused why [24] is invoked on the audio sample but not here when they use the same info?
"described its composition as" → "described the composition as"
"and pointed out that Madonna deserved" → "and pointed out that Madonna deserves" plus this sentence is fine staying here once the genre is mentioned in the previous para, as it is giving a more detailed description
"directed the video for" → "directed the video for Madonna's"
"by Oliver Gajan, and" → "by Oliver Gajan and"
"then-boyfriend,
Tony Ward, models Amanda Cazalet and Wallis Franken Montana, as well as" → "then-boyfriend
Tony Ward, fellow models Amanda Cazalet and Wallis Franken Montana, and"
"for three days," → "for three days and two nights," per the source
"that by the end of it he was" → "that by the end of it, he was"
[94] should be invoked after the sentence that uses direct quotes also
"was a dream, and not a" → "was a dream rather than a"
Synopsis
Moving img looks good!
I understand
WP:TVPLOT, but shouldn't there at least be one ref here?
On hold until all of the issues are fixed; that went smoothly over the expected timeframe! --
K. Peake 10:34, 13 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Pinging the nominator:
11JORN, since the review has been going on for 11 days, and most of the issues aren't fixed. — VAUGHANJ. (
TALK) 22:05, 24 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Kyle Peake Thanks for the review, and my apologies for the late response; I'll be starting tomorrow. Alexreach me! 21:33, 25 April 2023 (UTC)reply
11JORN Thanks for covering my points, however there are some issues that you missed. The spoken-word ode part in the lead needs to be reworded how I suggested, [24] should be invoked in the prose as well as on the sample and my comments about re-invoking refs refer to any sentences using direct quotes. --
K. Peake 09:17, 29 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Kyle Peake Done, wasn't the [24] ref (now [22]) already invoked in prose as well on the sample? Alexreach me! 20:26, 1 May 2023 (UTC)reply
✓Pass now, no issues are remaining! --
K. Peake 06:59, 2 May 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Did you know nomination
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
Overall: Recently promoted GA article. I'm going to suggest we hold this until August 16, Madonna's birthday. --
evrik(
talk) 19:54, 8 June 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Evrik: I've restored my comments you've deleted. I have no idea why you did, but it's never a good practice. I also note that you've added a new image after my removal of the previous one which since has been deleted on Commons as a copyright violation image.
BorgQueen (
talk) 05:02, 27 July 2023 (UTC)reply
A quote in this article may have an issue. The quote in question appears at the end of the first paragraph in the 'Development' section, and reads: "maybe she just felt like she didn't another woman to take credit for the creative style of the vocal". Clearly, there should be something more between "didn't" and "another", but as I don't have access to the source, someone who can access it should correct it.
90.128.41.172 (
talk) 08:55, 16 August 2023 (UTC)reply
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the music video for the song "Justify My Love" was banned from appearing on
MTV,
MuchMusic, and
Musique Plus for its sexual imagery?
Current status: Good article
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following
WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hip hop, a collaborative effort to build a useful resource for and improve the coverage of
hip hop on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion.Hip hopWikipedia:WikiProject Hip hopTemplate:WikiProject Hip hopHip hop articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Electronic music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Electronic music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Electronic musicWikipedia:WikiProject Electronic musicTemplate:WikiProject Electronic musicelectronic music articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pop music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to
pop music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Pop musicWikipedia:WikiProject Pop musicTemplate:WikiProject Pop musicPop music articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Madonna, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Madonna on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MadonnaWikipedia:WikiProject MadonnaTemplate:WikiProject MadonnaMadonna articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Women in music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in MusicWikipedia:WikiProject Women in MusicTemplate:WikiProject Women in MusicWomen in music articles
I removed the following passage from the section discussing the music video: Much of the imagery echoes an obscure French music video that came out in 1988. Unless one can reference the "obscure french music video" in question, this passage is of little use to anyone. --
Mrlopez2681 (
talk) 08:47, 27 January 2013 (UTC)reply
Trip hop?
"Composed as a midtempo song, "Justify My Love" is a trip-hop inspired song"
Urm, did
trip hop even really exist at the time? She/they must have been listening to a lot of underground English alt hip hop! In other words, can we find a source--
TangoTizerWolfstone (
talk) 16:26, 22 December 2014 (UTC)reply
The trip hop genre was not in the article for its first eight years. It was added by
CaliforniaDreamsFan back in August 2012 with
this major edit, changing a bunch of text and adding some refs. The refs are as follows:
Obviously the references added by CaliforniaDreamsFan do not support the trip hop genre.
Moving to today's world, my search of the internet for signs of the trip hop genre return only poor quality
Woozle effect stuff, with the writer cribbing from Wikipedia.
Binksternet (
talk) 01:39, 27 July 2022 (UTC)reply
Question for
Aspects: What basis do you have for
this restoration of the audio listening example? The problem with the sample (and all others lacking a description) is that it fails
WP:NFCCP reason number 8:
Contextual significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding.
Basically, the article must discuss something that requires a non-free audio sample for understanding. The audio sample must answer a need to demonstrate more fully something described in words. Can you tell me what part of the article requires the audio sample? If you can do that, can you compose a description for the audio sample that tells the reader what they are listening for?
Good examples of this may be seen at the articles
Heavy metal music,
Power metal,
Prophet-5 and Back in the High Life. The audio listening examples in these articles are accompanied by descriptions of what the reader should be paying attention to. Something like that is required here. In fact, every non-free listening example requires this step.
Binksternet (
talk) 22:02, 9 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Like cover art in
WP:NFCI, "for visual identification only in the context of critical commentary of that item (not for identification without critical commentary).", it seems to reason that audio files could be used for sound identification in song articles, but would need critical commentary in articles other than the song articles. All of the examples you provided are audio files not in use in song articles.
Aspects (
talk) 04:11, 11 June 2021 (UTC)reply
There is a higher bar for non-free music sound files, higher than for non-free cover art which serves in real life as a promotional tool for the actual audio product. The cover art can be viewed for free, but the audio must be purchased.
Binksternet (
talk) 04:23, 11 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Aspects, I can see that you have been arguing your point since at least 2013:
Talk:Some Kind of Bliss#Fair use of sound file. The result of that discussion was deletion of the sound file. If you wish to change the consensus, please start a project-wide RfC to change
Wikipedia:Non-free_content#Audio_clips to say that one non-free sound file may be used without contextual commentary in every song article.
Binksternet (
talk) 04:54, 11 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Split
Would not be a good idea to split single and music video? There exist a lot of literature for both formats, considering this is a 1990 release, and is the first music video ever released in the USA. Censored in at least USA and Canada. Records for a music video format, sales available, music video charts (available through WorldRadioHistory/AmericanRadioHistory), price, listicles, cultural references (Beyoncé channeled the video, for example). Much like "We Found Love (music video)" and "We Found Love". --
Apoxyomenus (
talk) 02:48, 21 January 2023 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This will run over the course of two days; you deserve it after three months in the queue! --
K. Peake 06:31, 12 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Infobox and lead
Remove house from genres since that is only a groove, move refs to only being in the body where you still need to write out
trip hop in comp and linked to itself, replace commas with bullet points per
Template:Infobox song and add experimental pop per the body
"Kravitz also produced the song" → "Kravitz also handled the production"
"from The Immaculate Collection on" → "from the album on"
Why is there no comma before dance like in the body? Also, you need to mention trip hop here too.
"Madonna and was described as a "spoken-word ode to releasing your" → "Madonna as she releases "your" to be less repetitve
Finland and Italy positions need to be written out in prose
"Netherlands, Switzerland and" → "the Netherlands, Switzerland, and" plus the above applies here
"to be certified multiplatinum" → "to be certified multiplatinum in the US"
I am confused why [24] is invoked on the audio sample but not here when they use the same info?
"described its composition as" → "described the composition as"
"and pointed out that Madonna deserved" → "and pointed out that Madonna deserves" plus this sentence is fine staying here once the genre is mentioned in the previous para, as it is giving a more detailed description
"directed the video for" → "directed the video for Madonna's"
"by Oliver Gajan, and" → "by Oliver Gajan and"
"then-boyfriend,
Tony Ward, models Amanda Cazalet and Wallis Franken Montana, as well as" → "then-boyfriend
Tony Ward, fellow models Amanda Cazalet and Wallis Franken Montana, and"
"for three days," → "for three days and two nights," per the source
"that by the end of it he was" → "that by the end of it, he was"
[94] should be invoked after the sentence that uses direct quotes also
"was a dream, and not a" → "was a dream rather than a"
Synopsis
Moving img looks good!
I understand
WP:TVPLOT, but shouldn't there at least be one ref here?
On hold until all of the issues are fixed; that went smoothly over the expected timeframe! --
K. Peake 10:34, 13 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Pinging the nominator:
11JORN, since the review has been going on for 11 days, and most of the issues aren't fixed. — VAUGHANJ. (
TALK) 22:05, 24 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Kyle Peake Thanks for the review, and my apologies for the late response; I'll be starting tomorrow. Alexreach me! 21:33, 25 April 2023 (UTC)reply
11JORN Thanks for covering my points, however there are some issues that you missed. The spoken-word ode part in the lead needs to be reworded how I suggested, [24] should be invoked in the prose as well as on the sample and my comments about re-invoking refs refer to any sentences using direct quotes. --
K. Peake 09:17, 29 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Kyle Peake Done, wasn't the [24] ref (now [22]) already invoked in prose as well on the sample? Alexreach me! 20:26, 1 May 2023 (UTC)reply
✓Pass now, no issues are remaining! --
K. Peake 06:59, 2 May 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Did you know nomination
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
Overall: Recently promoted GA article. I'm going to suggest we hold this until August 16, Madonna's birthday. --
evrik(
talk) 19:54, 8 June 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Evrik: I've restored my comments you've deleted. I have no idea why you did, but it's never a good practice. I also note that you've added a new image after my removal of the previous one which since has been deleted on Commons as a copyright violation image.
BorgQueen (
talk) 05:02, 27 July 2023 (UTC)reply
A quote in this article may have an issue. The quote in question appears at the end of the first paragraph in the 'Development' section, and reads: "maybe she just felt like she didn't another woman to take credit for the creative style of the vocal". Clearly, there should be something more between "didn't" and "another", but as I don't have access to the source, someone who can access it should correct it.
90.128.41.172 (
talk) 08:55, 16 August 2023 (UTC)reply