This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This article presents a good "meta-analysis" of both the PRC's and WUC's versions of the story behind what caused the riots. As we work on developing this article, it will probably be a very useful source for tempering both accounts. The only thing to be careful about is to make sure we summarize the whole thing and not cherry-pick: it contains criticisms of both sides, so is the kind of article that a POV editor could easily manipulate by citing one or two sentences and ignoring the rest. rʨanaɢ talk/ contribs 11:52, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
I came across this article in Reuters, I believe this would be a usefull addition to the article. RetlawSnellac ( talk) 11:50, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Too ambiguous to have any significance...if WUC is accusing of Chinese of mass arrests, then please say "mass crackdown/arrest", not "went missing". A person fell in a hole or fleeing a war zone also counts as "went missing". And reliable news sources did say a lot of people flee the city besides government arrest 1,000+ suspects, they could also be counted as "went missing" if they ran fast enough. The news just sound like a propaganda swipe at the Communists (people went missing in China, what do you think?), if a person went missing in China, then it must be political detention. Jim101 ( talk) 14:44, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
"The nearly 10,000 (Uighur) people who were at the protest, they disappeared from Urumqi in one night," Kadeer told a news conference in Tokyo through an interpreter. "If they are dead, where are their bodies? If they are detained, where are they?"
To take this passage at face value, it means Rebiya Kadeer is not even sure how the government is involved (not killed or detained, how else can government make 10,000 people dissappear). If 10,000 people missing and Rebiya Kadeer did not link the government to it, it it could be a giant sink hole for all we know. Jim101 ( talk) 15:06, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Dolkun Isa, a spokesman for the World Uyghur Congress (WUC) in Munich, disputed the official figures, saying the protest was 10,000 strong and that 600 people were killed.
This BBC piece from July 6. It would at least explain why Kadeer is puzzled and claim 10,000 missing into thin air and demanded UN to act. Jim101 ( talk) 00:50, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Don't know if this is worthy of inclusion - it's coming out of state media so it should be treated with a degree of skepticism... [1], [2], [3] but apparently Rebiya Kadeer's children and other relatives sent her a letter seemingly condemning her actions... Colipon+( T) 09:26, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm coming around to feeling that the denunciation letters are relevant to the article. Sure, it's anti-Kadeerism ostensibly from the family. But more importantly, it's clearly an attempt of the state to undermine her credibility and to propagandise what should essentially be a family matter. The letters are said to have been boilerplated from state slogans.
"The wording and the way the letters are dispersed might suggest the government has had a hand in the formulation, but we don't really know," he said.
"If they are real and valid they should be part of an ongoing police investigation and it's highly irregular for them to be placed on the platform of a government mouthpiece such as Xinhua for wide dispersion." ( source)
Thus, I have worked it into the article from that angle. Comments welcome. Ohconfucius ( talk) 03:35, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Rebiya's family members also wrote a letter to the families of the victims [4]. There is something interesting in the letter: “7·5”当天,在事件发生前6个小时,我们的母亲热比娅·卡德尔给我们打电话,说会发生大事情。 Let me translate it: On 7/5, 6 hours before the event, our mother, Rebiya Kadeer, called us and told us that a big event will happen. -- Jinhuili ( talk) 00:06, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
This doesn't seem to me to be a response to the riots in particular; it looks more like general anti-Kadeer-ism. Heightened because of the riots, of course, but not specifically about them. rʨanaɢ talk/ contribs 04:41, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
May be of interest:
On August 1, 2009, the
Melbourne International Film Festival was forced to shut down its website after DDoS attacks by Chinese vigilantes, in response to Rebiya Kadeer's planned guest appearance, the screening of a film about her which is deemed "anti-China" by Chinese state media, and strong sentiments following the July 2009 Ürümqi riots. The hackers booked out all film sessions on its website, and festival information with the Chinese flag and anti-Kadeer slogans.
Regards, --
李博杰 | —
Talk
contribs
email 12:40, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
The 2nd paragraph of this article shows that "The violence was part of ongoing ethnic tensions between the Han and the Uyghurs". I always suspect it, but never raised this issue. I agree the ethnic tensions exist, but don't believe it's simply between Hans and Uyghurs.
On August 5, Xinjiang government announced [5] 到目前为止,乌鲁木齐“7·5”事件已经造成1700多人受伤、197人死亡。其中,无辜死亡的156人(汉族134人、回族11人、维吾尔族10人、满族1人);在其他死亡人员中,有的是因为实施暴力犯罪活动被当场击毙的暴徒,有的身份还有待辨认。 More than 1,700 injured, 197 dead. There are 156 innocent people dead: 124 Hans, 11 Huis, 10 Uyghurs, 1 Manchu. Some of the rest are rioters shot (by police); some need to be identified. -- Jinhuili ( talk) 03:32, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
The riots took place several days after the deaths of two Uyghurs at the Xuri Toy Factory in Shaoguan, Guangdong, where many migrant workers are employed. In late June, a Han female worker was reportedly sexually harassed by Uyghur co-workers in their residence quarters. [1] Rumours over rape at the factory were subsequently initiated by a disgruntled former co-worker. [2] [3] Overnight, on 25–26 June, tensions at the factory led to a full-blown ethnic brawl between Uyghurs and Hans
I can't see anything in the source that reports a Han female worker was reportedly sexually harassed by Uyghur co-workers prio to the rumour of rape from Hao Xiang, Washington 94.194.214.37 ( talk) 22:09, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
I can't see it in this source , unless I'm missing it. Also the english link says [6]
"I was lost and entered the wrong dormitory and screamed when I saw those Uygur young men in the room," said Huang Cuilian, originally from rural Guangdong.
Huang said she had no idea why exactly she was scared. "I just felt they were unfriendly so I turned and ran."
She remembered one of them stood up and stamped his feet as if he would chase her. "I later realized that he was just making fun of me."
94.194.214.37 ( talk) 23:09, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Wait wait wait, we need to back track here. My recollection of the event was a girl screamed, and people thought it was a sexual harrassment, per Xinhua source here, then one lay-off workers posted a message about rapes, and that made the workers fight. Jim101 ( talk) 00:29, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
So was there a report about her sexual harassment?, because it says a Han female worker was reportedly sexually harassed by Uyghur co-workers in their residence quarter. This is prior to the rumours because it says Rumours over rape at the factory were subsequently initiated. I can't make it much clearer and am about to give up. 94.194.214.37 ( talk) 00:45, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
How China Wins and Loses Xinjiang
If anyone find this piece to be useful, use it in this article — or any Xinjiang related articles for that matter. Jim101 ( talk) 01:19, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
This is probably never going to be worthy of mention in the article...but it's cute, and also ridiculous:
rʨanaɢ talk/ contribs 20:00, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
nyt090705
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This article presents a good "meta-analysis" of both the PRC's and WUC's versions of the story behind what caused the riots. As we work on developing this article, it will probably be a very useful source for tempering both accounts. The only thing to be careful about is to make sure we summarize the whole thing and not cherry-pick: it contains criticisms of both sides, so is the kind of article that a POV editor could easily manipulate by citing one or two sentences and ignoring the rest. rʨanaɢ talk/ contribs 11:52, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
I came across this article in Reuters, I believe this would be a usefull addition to the article. RetlawSnellac ( talk) 11:50, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Too ambiguous to have any significance...if WUC is accusing of Chinese of mass arrests, then please say "mass crackdown/arrest", not "went missing". A person fell in a hole or fleeing a war zone also counts as "went missing". And reliable news sources did say a lot of people flee the city besides government arrest 1,000+ suspects, they could also be counted as "went missing" if they ran fast enough. The news just sound like a propaganda swipe at the Communists (people went missing in China, what do you think?), if a person went missing in China, then it must be political detention. Jim101 ( talk) 14:44, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
"The nearly 10,000 (Uighur) people who were at the protest, they disappeared from Urumqi in one night," Kadeer told a news conference in Tokyo through an interpreter. "If they are dead, where are their bodies? If they are detained, where are they?"
To take this passage at face value, it means Rebiya Kadeer is not even sure how the government is involved (not killed or detained, how else can government make 10,000 people dissappear). If 10,000 people missing and Rebiya Kadeer did not link the government to it, it it could be a giant sink hole for all we know. Jim101 ( talk) 15:06, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Dolkun Isa, a spokesman for the World Uyghur Congress (WUC) in Munich, disputed the official figures, saying the protest was 10,000 strong and that 600 people were killed.
This BBC piece from July 6. It would at least explain why Kadeer is puzzled and claim 10,000 missing into thin air and demanded UN to act. Jim101 ( talk) 00:50, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Don't know if this is worthy of inclusion - it's coming out of state media so it should be treated with a degree of skepticism... [1], [2], [3] but apparently Rebiya Kadeer's children and other relatives sent her a letter seemingly condemning her actions... Colipon+( T) 09:26, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm coming around to feeling that the denunciation letters are relevant to the article. Sure, it's anti-Kadeerism ostensibly from the family. But more importantly, it's clearly an attempt of the state to undermine her credibility and to propagandise what should essentially be a family matter. The letters are said to have been boilerplated from state slogans.
"The wording and the way the letters are dispersed might suggest the government has had a hand in the formulation, but we don't really know," he said.
"If they are real and valid they should be part of an ongoing police investigation and it's highly irregular for them to be placed on the platform of a government mouthpiece such as Xinhua for wide dispersion." ( source)
Thus, I have worked it into the article from that angle. Comments welcome. Ohconfucius ( talk) 03:35, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Rebiya's family members also wrote a letter to the families of the victims [4]. There is something interesting in the letter: “7·5”当天,在事件发生前6个小时,我们的母亲热比娅·卡德尔给我们打电话,说会发生大事情。 Let me translate it: On 7/5, 6 hours before the event, our mother, Rebiya Kadeer, called us and told us that a big event will happen. -- Jinhuili ( talk) 00:06, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
This doesn't seem to me to be a response to the riots in particular; it looks more like general anti-Kadeer-ism. Heightened because of the riots, of course, but not specifically about them. rʨanaɢ talk/ contribs 04:41, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
May be of interest:
On August 1, 2009, the
Melbourne International Film Festival was forced to shut down its website after DDoS attacks by Chinese vigilantes, in response to Rebiya Kadeer's planned guest appearance, the screening of a film about her which is deemed "anti-China" by Chinese state media, and strong sentiments following the July 2009 Ürümqi riots. The hackers booked out all film sessions on its website, and festival information with the Chinese flag and anti-Kadeer slogans.
Regards, --
李博杰 | —
Talk
contribs
email 12:40, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
The 2nd paragraph of this article shows that "The violence was part of ongoing ethnic tensions between the Han and the Uyghurs". I always suspect it, but never raised this issue. I agree the ethnic tensions exist, but don't believe it's simply between Hans and Uyghurs.
On August 5, Xinjiang government announced [5] 到目前为止,乌鲁木齐“7·5”事件已经造成1700多人受伤、197人死亡。其中,无辜死亡的156人(汉族134人、回族11人、维吾尔族10人、满族1人);在其他死亡人员中,有的是因为实施暴力犯罪活动被当场击毙的暴徒,有的身份还有待辨认。 More than 1,700 injured, 197 dead. There are 156 innocent people dead: 124 Hans, 11 Huis, 10 Uyghurs, 1 Manchu. Some of the rest are rioters shot (by police); some need to be identified. -- Jinhuili ( talk) 03:32, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
The riots took place several days after the deaths of two Uyghurs at the Xuri Toy Factory in Shaoguan, Guangdong, where many migrant workers are employed. In late June, a Han female worker was reportedly sexually harassed by Uyghur co-workers in their residence quarters. [1] Rumours over rape at the factory were subsequently initiated by a disgruntled former co-worker. [2] [3] Overnight, on 25–26 June, tensions at the factory led to a full-blown ethnic brawl between Uyghurs and Hans
I can't see anything in the source that reports a Han female worker was reportedly sexually harassed by Uyghur co-workers prio to the rumour of rape from Hao Xiang, Washington 94.194.214.37 ( talk) 22:09, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
I can't see it in this source , unless I'm missing it. Also the english link says [6]
"I was lost and entered the wrong dormitory and screamed when I saw those Uygur young men in the room," said Huang Cuilian, originally from rural Guangdong.
Huang said she had no idea why exactly she was scared. "I just felt they were unfriendly so I turned and ran."
She remembered one of them stood up and stamped his feet as if he would chase her. "I later realized that he was just making fun of me."
94.194.214.37 ( talk) 23:09, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Wait wait wait, we need to back track here. My recollection of the event was a girl screamed, and people thought it was a sexual harrassment, per Xinhua source here, then one lay-off workers posted a message about rapes, and that made the workers fight. Jim101 ( talk) 00:29, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
So was there a report about her sexual harassment?, because it says a Han female worker was reportedly sexually harassed by Uyghur co-workers in their residence quarter. This is prior to the rumours because it says Rumours over rape at the factory were subsequently initiated. I can't make it much clearer and am about to give up. 94.194.214.37 ( talk) 00:45, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
How China Wins and Loses Xinjiang
If anyone find this piece to be useful, use it in this article — or any Xinjiang related articles for that matter. Jim101 ( talk) 01:19, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
This is probably never going to be worthy of mention in the article...but it's cute, and also ridiculous:
rʨanaɢ talk/ contribs 20:00, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
nyt090705
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).