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I'm happy about the merge with the Kallisti article, which I proposed, but there is still a lot of duplication and perhaps a little contradiction at Paris (mythology) and at Trojan War#Peleus and Thetis, the_apple, and the judgment. It would be great if someone had a sensible idea of what should best go where. -- Schoen 18:14, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
There is also some redundant materials at Iliad and some useful material at Cypria, an ancient source for the story. -- Schoen 06:58, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Apple of Discord is a floating fragment that doesn't really help the Wikipedia reader. I can't find any information there that's not here. What would be the harm of making Apple of Discord a redirect here? -- Wetman 07:39, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
As a Discordian I object to it being classified as a psuedo-religion or a joke-religion (albeit less so) so I removed the /*psuedo-*/ from this and the Kallisti article as that was the first one I came across. Also this is my first edit so correct any violation of protocal I have made. David EaganDave Eagan
The link for Horai goes somewhere else, but I dont know what it is supposed to redirect to. Any ideas? FreeMorpheme 14:15, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
This article should be moved to Judgment of Paris because "Judgement" is not an English word
Howdy, there seems to be some ambiguity issues with the Judgment of Paris going solely this article. I think it is a fair assumption that the famous Paris Wine Tasting of 1976 is on par notability wise with the mythology story. In fact the tasting is known more as the Judgment of Paris then it is as the Paris Wine Tasting of 1976. Would there be objection to making Judgment of Paris a disambiguation page and move this article to Judgment of Paris (mythology) so that we can move the wine tasting article to Judgment of Paris (wine)? Agne 22:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
The wine Judgement of Paris already has more article linking to it then the mythological story has. This is also before the Wine Project has had the opportunity to expand and link relevant articles which will increase those links considerably. Agne Cheese/ Wine 08:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Hello Andrew. Your comment a little bit more important on the world scale was a little too much and provoked a response form me :-) You could argue the mythology Judgment is all just history buff stuff. Influenced Reubens? Okaaay. However, the wine industry was changed profoundly by the events of 1976, causing changes around the world that affected international economies, the lives and prosperities of wine region inhabitants, and the tastes of international consumers. One could easily argue that far more people have been indirectly affected by the wine Judgment than by the mythology Judgment. However, I'm not going to argue that :-)
I would very politely second the request for a Judgment of Paris disambig and let the wiki reader choose the appropriate page.
To repeat what was said above: A moment's thought on what the Wikipedia reader is normally looking for when they enter Judgement of Paris or Judgment of Paris will save us from avoidable errors. Wikipedia is a reader service. --Wetman 06:35, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Kindest regards Steve.Moulding 17:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
See Talk:Judgment of Paris (disambiguation) for more details. Agne Cheese/ Wine 20:25, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Looking back at the discussion on this page, I don't see consensus for the move to Judgement of Paris (mythology). I'm inclined to move the page back to Judgment of Paris, especially since there was never a discussion about the move at WP:RM, but I'd rather not start an edit war. What do others think? (You might want to look at the google results I presented at Talk:Judgment of Paris (disambiguation) to see whether the mythological episode is the primary use of the term, or not.) --Akhilleus ( talk) 20:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I think there's consensus for the move back to Judgement of Paris, but I think we should wait until the discussion at Talk:Judgment of Paris (disambiguation) concludes--perhaps there will be further developments. --Akhilleus ( talk) 21:44, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I have made the move with reference to the WP:RM request made on the Talk:Judgment of Paris (disambiguation) page -- Philip Baird Shearer 14:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Deleted a See Also link to Discordianism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.62.255.251 ( talk) 16:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Are there any sources for people finding personal meaning in the myth? Like for instance these are the three choices a man could make in his life? Could be worth mentioning. Steve Dufour ( talk) 06:23, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
I've read extensively concerning the correct spelling, and it seems to favor "Judgment", however I think what really matters is consistency. We have both spellings intermingled on the page. It seems wise that we make a decision concerning the spelling here so we can edit the page to be consistent throughout. Shall we vote or does someone have a Wiki precedent? Supertheman ( talk) 22:47, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
I've tried to make the spelling consistent (as "judgement"), but I didn't change the spelling in the names of artwork, in case these are canonically spelled as "judgment". I'll try to check the spellings for these, but I won't be able to do it just this second. --Akhilleus ( talk) 02:30, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.115.94.207 ( talk) 20:20, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Is there any explanation what it was that took the deities so long to ask someone for his judgement? The quarrel began before Achilles was born. Paris - if at all - cannot have been much older than Achilles. Judging from this, the quarrel between the three goddesses must have lasted twenty years or so.-- 80.141.2.208 ( talk) 13:30, 10 September 2015 (UTC)-- 80.141.2.208 ( talk) 13:30, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
I read the accounts of Pseudo-Apollodorus (Bibliotheca, E. 3.2) and Hyginus (Fabulae 92). From what I read in this article, there are a variety of inconsistencies and lack of proper sources to back many claims.
1. The article says "Eris arrived at the celebration with a golden apple from the Garden of the Hesperides, which she threw into the proceedings as a prize of beauty", followed by Pseudo-Apollodorus (Bibliotheca, E.3.2) as a source. Pseudo-Apollodorus never states golden or Garden of the Hesperides.
What source uses "golden"?
2. The article then says "According to some later versions, upon the apple was the inscription καλλίστῃ (kallistēi, "To/for the fairest one")", followed by a link to the Theoi website which is nothing but a laundry list of sources (completely useless to state what later version uses the word καλλίστῃ which, by the way, is never mentioned - it probably is mentioned in some Greek version).
What source uses "καλλίστῃ"?
3. "They asked Zeus to judge which of them was fairest, and eventually he, reluctant to favor any claim himself".
What source says that Zeus did not want to arbitrate? Pseudo-Apollodorus and Hyginus never state that.
4. "After failing to judge their beauty with their clothing on, the three goddesses stripped nude to convince Paris of their worthiness".
Since when the goddesses got naked? Pseudo-Apollodorus and Hyginus never state that.
5. "Hera offered to make him king of Europe and Asia".
This is not true. Hera promises "kingdom over all men" (Pseudo-Apollodorus) and says "he would be king of all the lands and surpass everyone else in riches" (Hyginus).
ICE77 ( talk) 08:36, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
After reading about Greek mythology for quite some time I am not interested in summarized accounts of Kerényi or other mythographers. I am looking for the original sources from writers such as Hesiod, Homer, Callimachus and so on. I want to go back to the original passages and trace the stories back to their root. Summarized stories that mix different sources are not good because there are elements of each story that are unique. That is a problem itself on Wikipedia where I saw many articles with mixed sources or mixes of sourced, unsourced and untrue passages. You can see the work I have done on Talk:Zeus#Five sources on infancy of Zeus: documentation and discrepancies or Talk:Theseus#Five sources on Theseus: documentation and discrepancies to get an idea of why I am looking for original sources. In only 1 of 5 stories about Zeus bees are mentioned. In only 1 of 5 stories the word "clue" is used. I would not discount Hyginus or Pseudo-Apollodorus just because they came after Hesiod or Homer. They have excellent accounts of different stories in most cases.
ICE77 ( talk) 00:17, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
2. There seems to be a link that points to an alleged source for "καλλίστῃ". It is currently source [7] and it points to "Atsma, Aaron. "THE JUDGEMENT OF PARIS". Theoi Project. Retrieved 13 December 2019." I see 3 possible sources:
I have read all of them and the last 2 of 3 in the past. I do not see anywhere on that page any "καλλίστῃ" inscription. Therefore, "καλλίστῃ" should be removed unless there is an actual source to prove that specific word in Greek was used.
ICE77 ( talk) 22:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
On my phone, it appears two thirds of this article is just a gallery of paintings. While we should keep Wikipedia is Not Censored in mind, nearly all of these images are sexually explicit. I'm going to take the step to remove this gallery. Along with problems like the too short lede and lots of original research/synth, this article seems like it needs attention. Ardenter ( talk) 10:43, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
Taking a closer look, many of these images seem to be copyright infringing. Can someone else who knows how to deal with that help out? Ardenter ( talk) 10:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I'm happy about the merge with the Kallisti article, which I proposed, but there is still a lot of duplication and perhaps a little contradiction at Paris (mythology) and at Trojan War#Peleus and Thetis, the_apple, and the judgment. It would be great if someone had a sensible idea of what should best go where. -- Schoen 18:14, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
There is also some redundant materials at Iliad and some useful material at Cypria, an ancient source for the story. -- Schoen 06:58, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Apple of Discord is a floating fragment that doesn't really help the Wikipedia reader. I can't find any information there that's not here. What would be the harm of making Apple of Discord a redirect here? -- Wetman 07:39, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
As a Discordian I object to it being classified as a psuedo-religion or a joke-religion (albeit less so) so I removed the /*psuedo-*/ from this and the Kallisti article as that was the first one I came across. Also this is my first edit so correct any violation of protocal I have made. David EaganDave Eagan
The link for Horai goes somewhere else, but I dont know what it is supposed to redirect to. Any ideas? FreeMorpheme 14:15, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
This article should be moved to Judgment of Paris because "Judgement" is not an English word
Howdy, there seems to be some ambiguity issues with the Judgment of Paris going solely this article. I think it is a fair assumption that the famous Paris Wine Tasting of 1976 is on par notability wise with the mythology story. In fact the tasting is known more as the Judgment of Paris then it is as the Paris Wine Tasting of 1976. Would there be objection to making Judgment of Paris a disambiguation page and move this article to Judgment of Paris (mythology) so that we can move the wine tasting article to Judgment of Paris (wine)? Agne 22:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
The wine Judgement of Paris already has more article linking to it then the mythological story has. This is also before the Wine Project has had the opportunity to expand and link relevant articles which will increase those links considerably. Agne Cheese/ Wine 08:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Hello Andrew. Your comment a little bit more important on the world scale was a little too much and provoked a response form me :-) You could argue the mythology Judgment is all just history buff stuff. Influenced Reubens? Okaaay. However, the wine industry was changed profoundly by the events of 1976, causing changes around the world that affected international economies, the lives and prosperities of wine region inhabitants, and the tastes of international consumers. One could easily argue that far more people have been indirectly affected by the wine Judgment than by the mythology Judgment. However, I'm not going to argue that :-)
I would very politely second the request for a Judgment of Paris disambig and let the wiki reader choose the appropriate page.
To repeat what was said above: A moment's thought on what the Wikipedia reader is normally looking for when they enter Judgement of Paris or Judgment of Paris will save us from avoidable errors. Wikipedia is a reader service. --Wetman 06:35, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Kindest regards Steve.Moulding 17:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
See Talk:Judgment of Paris (disambiguation) for more details. Agne Cheese/ Wine 20:25, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Looking back at the discussion on this page, I don't see consensus for the move to Judgement of Paris (mythology). I'm inclined to move the page back to Judgment of Paris, especially since there was never a discussion about the move at WP:RM, but I'd rather not start an edit war. What do others think? (You might want to look at the google results I presented at Talk:Judgment of Paris (disambiguation) to see whether the mythological episode is the primary use of the term, or not.) --Akhilleus ( talk) 20:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I think there's consensus for the move back to Judgement of Paris, but I think we should wait until the discussion at Talk:Judgment of Paris (disambiguation) concludes--perhaps there will be further developments. --Akhilleus ( talk) 21:44, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I have made the move with reference to the WP:RM request made on the Talk:Judgment of Paris (disambiguation) page -- Philip Baird Shearer 14:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Deleted a See Also link to Discordianism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.62.255.251 ( talk) 16:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Are there any sources for people finding personal meaning in the myth? Like for instance these are the three choices a man could make in his life? Could be worth mentioning. Steve Dufour ( talk) 06:23, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
I've read extensively concerning the correct spelling, and it seems to favor "Judgment", however I think what really matters is consistency. We have both spellings intermingled on the page. It seems wise that we make a decision concerning the spelling here so we can edit the page to be consistent throughout. Shall we vote or does someone have a Wiki precedent? Supertheman ( talk) 22:47, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
I've tried to make the spelling consistent (as "judgement"), but I didn't change the spelling in the names of artwork, in case these are canonically spelled as "judgment". I'll try to check the spellings for these, but I won't be able to do it just this second. --Akhilleus ( talk) 02:30, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.115.94.207 ( talk) 20:20, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Is there any explanation what it was that took the deities so long to ask someone for his judgement? The quarrel began before Achilles was born. Paris - if at all - cannot have been much older than Achilles. Judging from this, the quarrel between the three goddesses must have lasted twenty years or so.-- 80.141.2.208 ( talk) 13:30, 10 September 2015 (UTC)-- 80.141.2.208 ( talk) 13:30, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
I read the accounts of Pseudo-Apollodorus (Bibliotheca, E. 3.2) and Hyginus (Fabulae 92). From what I read in this article, there are a variety of inconsistencies and lack of proper sources to back many claims.
1. The article says "Eris arrived at the celebration with a golden apple from the Garden of the Hesperides, which she threw into the proceedings as a prize of beauty", followed by Pseudo-Apollodorus (Bibliotheca, E.3.2) as a source. Pseudo-Apollodorus never states golden or Garden of the Hesperides.
What source uses "golden"?
2. The article then says "According to some later versions, upon the apple was the inscription καλλίστῃ (kallistēi, "To/for the fairest one")", followed by a link to the Theoi website which is nothing but a laundry list of sources (completely useless to state what later version uses the word καλλίστῃ which, by the way, is never mentioned - it probably is mentioned in some Greek version).
What source uses "καλλίστῃ"?
3. "They asked Zeus to judge which of them was fairest, and eventually he, reluctant to favor any claim himself".
What source says that Zeus did not want to arbitrate? Pseudo-Apollodorus and Hyginus never state that.
4. "After failing to judge their beauty with their clothing on, the three goddesses stripped nude to convince Paris of their worthiness".
Since when the goddesses got naked? Pseudo-Apollodorus and Hyginus never state that.
5. "Hera offered to make him king of Europe and Asia".
This is not true. Hera promises "kingdom over all men" (Pseudo-Apollodorus) and says "he would be king of all the lands and surpass everyone else in riches" (Hyginus).
ICE77 ( talk) 08:36, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
After reading about Greek mythology for quite some time I am not interested in summarized accounts of Kerényi or other mythographers. I am looking for the original sources from writers such as Hesiod, Homer, Callimachus and so on. I want to go back to the original passages and trace the stories back to their root. Summarized stories that mix different sources are not good because there are elements of each story that are unique. That is a problem itself on Wikipedia where I saw many articles with mixed sources or mixes of sourced, unsourced and untrue passages. You can see the work I have done on Talk:Zeus#Five sources on infancy of Zeus: documentation and discrepancies or Talk:Theseus#Five sources on Theseus: documentation and discrepancies to get an idea of why I am looking for original sources. In only 1 of 5 stories about Zeus bees are mentioned. In only 1 of 5 stories the word "clue" is used. I would not discount Hyginus or Pseudo-Apollodorus just because they came after Hesiod or Homer. They have excellent accounts of different stories in most cases.
ICE77 ( talk) 00:17, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
2. There seems to be a link that points to an alleged source for "καλλίστῃ". It is currently source [7] and it points to "Atsma, Aaron. "THE JUDGEMENT OF PARIS". Theoi Project. Retrieved 13 December 2019." I see 3 possible sources:
I have read all of them and the last 2 of 3 in the past. I do not see anywhere on that page any "καλλίστῃ" inscription. Therefore, "καλλίστῃ" should be removed unless there is an actual source to prove that specific word in Greek was used.
ICE77 ( talk) 22:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
On my phone, it appears two thirds of this article is just a gallery of paintings. While we should keep Wikipedia is Not Censored in mind, nearly all of these images are sexually explicit. I'm going to take the step to remove this gallery. Along with problems like the too short lede and lots of original research/synth, this article seems like it needs attention. Ardenter ( talk) 10:43, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
Taking a closer look, many of these images seem to be copyright infringing. Can someone else who knows how to deal with that help out? Ardenter ( talk) 10:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)