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Why dont you wait? Why dont you wait until its been confirmed by the Police Dept? Its sad that people are so excited to go change something so quickly out of respect to Everyone Involved dont change it until its Confirmed by Police not a sports reporter — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.93.220.221 ( talk) 17:10, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Anybody got any source other than a secondhand tweet? Really curious as to just what the Hell's going on in KC MO right now. DodgerOfZion ( talk)
Unless there is confirmation from the authorities, don't both changing anything. Qazox ( talk) 16:09, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
- As of right now, there is no confirmation from authorities that it was indeed Mr. Belcher. Until that happens, I suggest the page be locked from editing, if possible. yoshiegg25 ( talk) 16:15, 1 December 2012 (UTC) - I concur with previous. jwhouk 16:57, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Jason LaCanfora of CBS Sports is saying on twitter sources from the team are confirming the suicide, but I don't know if that is sourced enough to use on wiki ( https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/274904815321096193) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jatkins679 ( talk • contribs) 16:21, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
I don't feel that the page should reflect the subject's death until it is confirmed by police in the area. Wikipedia is not a news website and reflecting unconfirmed speculation isn't needed. Do any users familiar with our guildeines and policies disagree? OlYeller21 Talktome 16:25, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
As an example as to why a single journalist citing an anonymous source isn't reliable, no matter what their stature, here's an example. This issue seems to be particularly common in sports news. Hopefully in the future, when it comes to BLPs, those here won't feel the need to jump to publish information to WP (not a news source) that hasn't been confirmed but can be damaging. My example, of course, is anecdotal but as no one can prove that waiting goes against WP's goal, policies, or guidelines, I think the example underlines the concept of waiting. We gain nothing by publishing minutes/hours/days early and can only cause damage by jumping the gun.
I've taken this page off my watchlist so if you wish to discuss this issue with me, please do so on my talk page. OlYeller21 Talktome 19:24, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
He allegedly shot her in front of his own mother. Not her mother. His mother is actually the one who contacted police. The woman who contacted the police referred to the victim as her daughter (hence the confusion). Jchiarotto ( talk) 22:59, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Someone should probably lock this article. Has anyone put a request in yet? Kjscotte34 ( talk) 16:32, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Just as a heads-up, I've given the article a fairly substantial freshening-up, fully referencing it and adding some new information. Those watching here may want to take a look and make any changes, if necessary. -- Batard0 ( talk) 09:33, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
I just made a correction as West Babylon does not participate in a state championship. New York City schools as well as those on Long Island do not participate in state championship competition. The highest championship on Long Island is the Long Island Football Championships and West Babylon has never played in the title game (although it was in the brackets leading to the championship game). The Maine reference refers to playoffs and editors have made the leap to a state championship. Americasroof ( talk) 12:13, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
I think the fact that she was not only his girlfriend but the mother of his 3 month old daughter Zoey Michelle should be mentioned somewhere. Comments? Naraht ( talk) 22:51, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
The current version says that the shooting was at an apartment. I have not seen any reference to an apartment. It is described as a house in all articles I've seen (in the 5400 Block of Crysler Avenue in Kansas City https://maps.google.com/maps?q=5400+Crysler+Avenue,+Kansas+City,+Missouri&hl=en&ll=39.021118,-94.436159&spn=0.004843,0.010568&sll=40.697488,-73.979681&sspn=0.604921,1.352692&t=h&hnear=5400+Crysler+Ave,+Kansas+City,+Missouri+64133&z=17) Americasroof ( talk) 04:17, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
Should we remove the paragraph about concussions. It basically extrapolates an unnamed source quoted by the rumor mill that is Deadspin, and launches into a discussion about players who have killed themselves after having concussions. This strikes me as a prime example of WP:SYNTH. (Note that we even have conflicting "data", none of which is particularly reliable, some of which said that he had a history of concussions and some of which said that he didn't.) Against the current ( talk) 18:15, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
I am placing this link here so I don't lose it http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/jovan-belcher-kansas-city-chiefs-kills-self-suicide-kills-girlfriend-team-facility-120112 This is relation to the only reported head injury for Belcher was reported November 11, 2009 and he played four days later. User:Americasroof 05:19, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
To all who are watching here: I'm going to go in and do another freshening-up of the article to put the new information into more of an encyclopedic style. It's starting to balloon into a somewhat disjointed collection of information, and I'm going to try and make it more coherent. I'll do this in small steps so that people can revert and discuss in case of disagreement. -- Batard0 ( talk) 06:34, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Paternity questions leading to argument? Some reports are mentioning there were supposedly questions on whether Belcher was the father of Perkins' daughter. See this link if anyone able to edit the article thinks those details should be included: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/jovan-belcher-mother-says-her-son-questioned-paternity-160900469--nfl.html - 98.85.16.193 ( talk) 22:02, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
While we usually use the neutral "death" to describe the deceased. However in this case a murder was committed. It seems "Murder-Suicide" would be more appropriate. Americasroof ( talk) 15:52, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
The content regarding Brent was removed by an editor, I boldly reverted, and my edit has been subsequently reverted by a third party. Rather than edit warring, I thought I'd start a discussion using the WP:BRD model. Frankly, I'm neutral on the topic; the only reason I originally reverted was because it was unexplained removal of content. Should we include the info. on subsequent player deaths? Go Phightins ! 17:02, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Jovan Belcher article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
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Why dont you wait? Why dont you wait until its been confirmed by the Police Dept? Its sad that people are so excited to go change something so quickly out of respect to Everyone Involved dont change it until its Confirmed by Police not a sports reporter — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.93.220.221 ( talk) 17:10, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Anybody got any source other than a secondhand tweet? Really curious as to just what the Hell's going on in KC MO right now. DodgerOfZion ( talk)
Unless there is confirmation from the authorities, don't both changing anything. Qazox ( talk) 16:09, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
- As of right now, there is no confirmation from authorities that it was indeed Mr. Belcher. Until that happens, I suggest the page be locked from editing, if possible. yoshiegg25 ( talk) 16:15, 1 December 2012 (UTC) - I concur with previous. jwhouk 16:57, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Jason LaCanfora of CBS Sports is saying on twitter sources from the team are confirming the suicide, but I don't know if that is sourced enough to use on wiki ( https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/274904815321096193) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jatkins679 ( talk • contribs) 16:21, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
I don't feel that the page should reflect the subject's death until it is confirmed by police in the area. Wikipedia is not a news website and reflecting unconfirmed speculation isn't needed. Do any users familiar with our guildeines and policies disagree? OlYeller21 Talktome 16:25, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
As an example as to why a single journalist citing an anonymous source isn't reliable, no matter what their stature, here's an example. This issue seems to be particularly common in sports news. Hopefully in the future, when it comes to BLPs, those here won't feel the need to jump to publish information to WP (not a news source) that hasn't been confirmed but can be damaging. My example, of course, is anecdotal but as no one can prove that waiting goes against WP's goal, policies, or guidelines, I think the example underlines the concept of waiting. We gain nothing by publishing minutes/hours/days early and can only cause damage by jumping the gun.
I've taken this page off my watchlist so if you wish to discuss this issue with me, please do so on my talk page. OlYeller21 Talktome 19:24, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
He allegedly shot her in front of his own mother. Not her mother. His mother is actually the one who contacted police. The woman who contacted the police referred to the victim as her daughter (hence the confusion). Jchiarotto ( talk) 22:59, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Someone should probably lock this article. Has anyone put a request in yet? Kjscotte34 ( talk) 16:32, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Just as a heads-up, I've given the article a fairly substantial freshening-up, fully referencing it and adding some new information. Those watching here may want to take a look and make any changes, if necessary. -- Batard0 ( talk) 09:33, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
I just made a correction as West Babylon does not participate in a state championship. New York City schools as well as those on Long Island do not participate in state championship competition. The highest championship on Long Island is the Long Island Football Championships and West Babylon has never played in the title game (although it was in the brackets leading to the championship game). The Maine reference refers to playoffs and editors have made the leap to a state championship. Americasroof ( talk) 12:13, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
I think the fact that she was not only his girlfriend but the mother of his 3 month old daughter Zoey Michelle should be mentioned somewhere. Comments? Naraht ( talk) 22:51, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
The current version says that the shooting was at an apartment. I have not seen any reference to an apartment. It is described as a house in all articles I've seen (in the 5400 Block of Crysler Avenue in Kansas City https://maps.google.com/maps?q=5400+Crysler+Avenue,+Kansas+City,+Missouri&hl=en&ll=39.021118,-94.436159&spn=0.004843,0.010568&sll=40.697488,-73.979681&sspn=0.604921,1.352692&t=h&hnear=5400+Crysler+Ave,+Kansas+City,+Missouri+64133&z=17) Americasroof ( talk) 04:17, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
Should we remove the paragraph about concussions. It basically extrapolates an unnamed source quoted by the rumor mill that is Deadspin, and launches into a discussion about players who have killed themselves after having concussions. This strikes me as a prime example of WP:SYNTH. (Note that we even have conflicting "data", none of which is particularly reliable, some of which said that he had a history of concussions and some of which said that he didn't.) Against the current ( talk) 18:15, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
I am placing this link here so I don't lose it http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/jovan-belcher-kansas-city-chiefs-kills-self-suicide-kills-girlfriend-team-facility-120112 This is relation to the only reported head injury for Belcher was reported November 11, 2009 and he played four days later. User:Americasroof 05:19, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
To all who are watching here: I'm going to go in and do another freshening-up of the article to put the new information into more of an encyclopedic style. It's starting to balloon into a somewhat disjointed collection of information, and I'm going to try and make it more coherent. I'll do this in small steps so that people can revert and discuss in case of disagreement. -- Batard0 ( talk) 06:34, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Paternity questions leading to argument? Some reports are mentioning there were supposedly questions on whether Belcher was the father of Perkins' daughter. See this link if anyone able to edit the article thinks those details should be included: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/jovan-belcher-mother-says-her-son-questioned-paternity-160900469--nfl.html - 98.85.16.193 ( talk) 22:02, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
While we usually use the neutral "death" to describe the deceased. However in this case a murder was committed. It seems "Murder-Suicide" would be more appropriate. Americasroof ( talk) 15:52, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
The content regarding Brent was removed by an editor, I boldly reverted, and my edit has been subsequently reverted by a third party. Rather than edit warring, I thought I'd start a discussion using the WP:BRD model. Frankly, I'm neutral on the topic; the only reason I originally reverted was because it was unexplained removal of content. Should we include the info. on subsequent player deaths? Go Phightins ! 17:02, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Jovan Belcher. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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