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How can one justify calling Bolten "completely unknown"? He is certainly well-known in Washington, DC, even before taking the reins of OMB. Low-profile, sure. But "completely unknown"? Also, what are these "controversies" in reference to? I think that entire sentence should be removed from the article. Any objections? - Walkiped 05:36, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Josh doesn't take office until April 14th. Isn't this article jumping the gun?
Thom Hartmann mentioned referencing this article on his local Portland radio show (620 KPOJ, Portland). He was disappointed that there was so little information on this future Chief-of-staff. -- llywrch 15:57, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
is he related to John R. Bolton? Kingturtle 16:39, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Obviously not. Bolten/Bolton.
This entry says 1955, the Who2 link in the entry says 1954, although it does say some sources show 1955. Who2 link: [1] Gibbative 12:45, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
I removed most of the text from the "Bush Administration" section, for a few different reasons. Some of it appears to be commentary (calling the handling of the Goss resignation a "misstep"); some of seems NPOV ("a resignation ceremony that looked like it had been choreographed by a junior high school drama project"); and much of it appears speculative or frivolous without citations (Negroponte "lurking", Hastert being "furious"). If someone thinks any of the text has any salvage substantive value, please try to rework it. - Walkiped 14:43, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Josh was born in 1954, on August 16, not 1955. I know this for a fact - I knew him at Princeton, and I have a hard copy of the "facebook" from when he was a freshman, which contains birthdates. How do I fax this or otherwise document it?
Shouldn't the fact that he plays bass guitar for a band be placed somewhere besides government service? P!3r(3 01:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Or omitted? Might as well add that he likes long walks on the beach and strawberry daiquiris. 192.231.128.67 01:26, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
[ WP:BLP] states that
"Category names do not carry disclaimers or modifiers, so the case for the category must be made clear in the article text. The article must state the facts that result in the use of the category tag and these facts must be sourced.
Category tags regarding religious beliefs and sexual preference should not be used unless two criteria are met:
Category tags that do not meet these criteria (i.e. case must be made in article text, subject must publicly self-identify with beliefs, beliefs must be relevant) will be deleted. Notmyrealname 18:29, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Jewish ethnicity is defined in the same way as any other ethnicity or nationality, or indeed any category - a reliable source says that the person belongs to that category. That is a fundamental principle of Wikipedia and is not negotiable. Obviously, a convert to Judaism publicly self-identifies with Judaism so the question does not arise.-- Runcorn 09:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
We have a reliable source that confirms that he is Jewish. Please do not violate Wikipedia policy.-- Runcorn 21:05, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I totally agree with IZAK. Someone may be Jewish by religion or ethnicity or both.-- Runcorn 19:19, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Where are ethnic categories covered by WP:BLP?-- Runcorn 23:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
"Category names do not carry disclaimers or modifiers, so the case for the category must be made clear in the article text. The article must state the facts that result in the use of the category tag and these facts must be sourced.
For example, Category:Criminals should only be added when the notable crime has been described in the article and sources given, and the person has either been convicted or has pleaded guilty."
Then, under [2]
"Currently, the Wikipedia also supports categorizing People by religion and People by race or ethnicity. The placement of people in these categories may be problematic."
So, they are indeed covered, as are all categories. I think one of the points that IZAK brought up (and is shared by many others) is that it is very hard to split apart when someone's Jewishness is ethnic and when it is religious. My feeling is that we should treat all references to people being Jews or not as a religious one. If we wanted to take it a step further, there are no references cited that show that he had Jewish parents, rather than being a convert, or adopted, or something. Not trying to make a major stink about this whole thing, but I sincerely believe that I am raising valid questions. If you can provide more references showing that it a) is relevant, b) is something that Bolten has publicly acknowledged, and c) is referred to by more valid sources than an aside in what appears to be an alumni journal, I would have no further objections. Notmyrealname 23:59, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
The anon's point is sound. If someone is Jewish and is not an ethnic Jew then by definition he is a convert, hence by definition has made a public avowal of his Jewish faith.-- Runcorn 23:24, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
No, I'm saying that since Judaism is usually an ethnic category it is not covered by the provisions that relate to faith categories but not ethnic ones. It is only not an ethnic category if the person has converted to Judaism, which means of course that he or she has gone through a long conversion procedure and has had to make a public avowal of his or her new faith.-- Runcorn 22:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
See the related talk at User talk:IZAK#Seeking input on category and User talk:IZAK#Hi IZAK. Thank you, IZAK 05:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Is Joshua Bolten gay? The documentary movie "Outrage" has a clip of Bill Maher on Larry King Live saying (during the Bush administration) that, "A lot of the chiefs of staff, the people who run the underpinnings of the Republican party, are gay - I don't want to mention names . . . ." Who is he talking about??? Joshua Bolten was Bush's Chief of Staff when that comment was made. Normally, I would say that a person's sexual orientation is irrelevant, but as the documentary - and the gay community in general - point out, if a gay man is in a position of political power in an anti-gay party, that his sexual orientation becomes relevant. I mean, it goes to the guy's motivations - why is he major supporter/operative in an anti-gay party when he is gay - is it because he is a self-loathing gay?, etc, etc, etc.
Is Joshua Bolten gay??? If not, who is Bill Maher referring to??? Lewis "Scooter" Libby??? But that guy is married - not that that means anything - but Wikipedia notes his "spouse" in the bio box on the upper right hand side. I think Joshua Bolten's entry should include a "Spouse" line in his bio box, and it either give a name, or state, "Bachelor". And, has the guy EVER been married??? Enquiring minds want to know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.132.184.170 ( talk) 19:31, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
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Per this edit, the word "Jew" is "informal"? Since when? Jayjg (talk) 20:57, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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How can one justify calling Bolten "completely unknown"? He is certainly well-known in Washington, DC, even before taking the reins of OMB. Low-profile, sure. But "completely unknown"? Also, what are these "controversies" in reference to? I think that entire sentence should be removed from the article. Any objections? - Walkiped 05:36, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Josh doesn't take office until April 14th. Isn't this article jumping the gun?
Thom Hartmann mentioned referencing this article on his local Portland radio show (620 KPOJ, Portland). He was disappointed that there was so little information on this future Chief-of-staff. -- llywrch 15:57, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
is he related to John R. Bolton? Kingturtle 16:39, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Obviously not. Bolten/Bolton.
This entry says 1955, the Who2 link in the entry says 1954, although it does say some sources show 1955. Who2 link: [1] Gibbative 12:45, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
I removed most of the text from the "Bush Administration" section, for a few different reasons. Some of it appears to be commentary (calling the handling of the Goss resignation a "misstep"); some of seems NPOV ("a resignation ceremony that looked like it had been choreographed by a junior high school drama project"); and much of it appears speculative or frivolous without citations (Negroponte "lurking", Hastert being "furious"). If someone thinks any of the text has any salvage substantive value, please try to rework it. - Walkiped 14:43, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Josh was born in 1954, on August 16, not 1955. I know this for a fact - I knew him at Princeton, and I have a hard copy of the "facebook" from when he was a freshman, which contains birthdates. How do I fax this or otherwise document it?
Shouldn't the fact that he plays bass guitar for a band be placed somewhere besides government service? P!3r(3 01:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Or omitted? Might as well add that he likes long walks on the beach and strawberry daiquiris. 192.231.128.67 01:26, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
[ WP:BLP] states that
"Category names do not carry disclaimers or modifiers, so the case for the category must be made clear in the article text. The article must state the facts that result in the use of the category tag and these facts must be sourced.
Category tags regarding religious beliefs and sexual preference should not be used unless two criteria are met:
Category tags that do not meet these criteria (i.e. case must be made in article text, subject must publicly self-identify with beliefs, beliefs must be relevant) will be deleted. Notmyrealname 18:29, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Jewish ethnicity is defined in the same way as any other ethnicity or nationality, or indeed any category - a reliable source says that the person belongs to that category. That is a fundamental principle of Wikipedia and is not negotiable. Obviously, a convert to Judaism publicly self-identifies with Judaism so the question does not arise.-- Runcorn 09:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
We have a reliable source that confirms that he is Jewish. Please do not violate Wikipedia policy.-- Runcorn 21:05, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I totally agree with IZAK. Someone may be Jewish by religion or ethnicity or both.-- Runcorn 19:19, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Where are ethnic categories covered by WP:BLP?-- Runcorn 23:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
"Category names do not carry disclaimers or modifiers, so the case for the category must be made clear in the article text. The article must state the facts that result in the use of the category tag and these facts must be sourced.
For example, Category:Criminals should only be added when the notable crime has been described in the article and sources given, and the person has either been convicted or has pleaded guilty."
Then, under [2]
"Currently, the Wikipedia also supports categorizing People by religion and People by race or ethnicity. The placement of people in these categories may be problematic."
So, they are indeed covered, as are all categories. I think one of the points that IZAK brought up (and is shared by many others) is that it is very hard to split apart when someone's Jewishness is ethnic and when it is religious. My feeling is that we should treat all references to people being Jews or not as a religious one. If we wanted to take it a step further, there are no references cited that show that he had Jewish parents, rather than being a convert, or adopted, or something. Not trying to make a major stink about this whole thing, but I sincerely believe that I am raising valid questions. If you can provide more references showing that it a) is relevant, b) is something that Bolten has publicly acknowledged, and c) is referred to by more valid sources than an aside in what appears to be an alumni journal, I would have no further objections. Notmyrealname 23:59, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
The anon's point is sound. If someone is Jewish and is not an ethnic Jew then by definition he is a convert, hence by definition has made a public avowal of his Jewish faith.-- Runcorn 23:24, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
No, I'm saying that since Judaism is usually an ethnic category it is not covered by the provisions that relate to faith categories but not ethnic ones. It is only not an ethnic category if the person has converted to Judaism, which means of course that he or she has gone through a long conversion procedure and has had to make a public avowal of his or her new faith.-- Runcorn 22:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
See the related talk at User talk:IZAK#Seeking input on category and User talk:IZAK#Hi IZAK. Thank you, IZAK 05:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Is Joshua Bolten gay? The documentary movie "Outrage" has a clip of Bill Maher on Larry King Live saying (during the Bush administration) that, "A lot of the chiefs of staff, the people who run the underpinnings of the Republican party, are gay - I don't want to mention names . . . ." Who is he talking about??? Joshua Bolten was Bush's Chief of Staff when that comment was made. Normally, I would say that a person's sexual orientation is irrelevant, but as the documentary - and the gay community in general - point out, if a gay man is in a position of political power in an anti-gay party, that his sexual orientation becomes relevant. I mean, it goes to the guy's motivations - why is he major supporter/operative in an anti-gay party when he is gay - is it because he is a self-loathing gay?, etc, etc, etc.
Is Joshua Bolten gay??? If not, who is Bill Maher referring to??? Lewis "Scooter" Libby??? But that guy is married - not that that means anything - but Wikipedia notes his "spouse" in the bio box on the upper right hand side. I think Joshua Bolten's entry should include a "Spouse" line in his bio box, and it either give a name, or state, "Bachelor". And, has the guy EVER been married??? Enquiring minds want to know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.132.184.170 ( talk) 19:31, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
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Per this edit, the word "Jew" is "informal"? Since when? Jayjg (talk) 20:57, 4 August 2020 (UTC)