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Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. was a History good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
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The wording, "confined" in regard to Kennedy's eventual state following his stroke and rehabilitation is an acceptable description. There was an objection to it that seemed more along the lines of being politically correct rather than accurate and reflecting the time period when Kennedy lived and died. An IP then came along, having never edited the article previously, and reverted. Discussion really should take place rather than reverting/edit warring per WP:BRD. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 14:56, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
Hijacking this 10 months later. In the same area, Jnoelcook added this cn. I don't see why that needs a citation any more than the numerous other uncited but widely accepted and uncontroversial things in the article. The man couldn't talk after the stroke, let alone get up out of his wheelchair. It's not quite "sky is blue", but it's close. If Jnoelcook really feels a cite is needed for something like this, I think they should do the legwork. If they are ref-challenged, they can drop a link here and I'm sure someone will be willing to code the citation. ― Mandruss ☎ 18:08, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Coming fresh to this article, the fourth paragraph of the lead, focussed entirely on Rosemary's lobotomy, seems very oddly placed. While a tragedy for Rosemary, and an indicator of Joe's unsympathetic approach, it hardly seems one of the major facts of a very full life. The events are fully covered later in the article in the Marriage and family section, but I do wonder whether it warrants such prominence in the lead. I see this was the subject of discussion back in 2013, so rather than just edit it, I thought I'd raise it here. KJP1 ( talk) 19:06, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the "Ambassador To The United Kingdom" section, delete the "to" before the quote due to redundancy and grammatical incorrectness:
... in order to "to bring about a better understanding between the United States and Germany".
should read as:
... in order "to bring about a better understanding between the United States and Germany". 68.134.157.81 ( talk) 06:28, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Read: [1] See "Iced: The Story of Organized Crime in Canada By Stephen Schneider pp. 207-9 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gaamain ( talk • contribs) 01:15, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
It can easily be argued that the "disputes" were nothing more than a political stunt. 2601:447:4101:41F9:65DC:560F:EE83:B438 ( talk) 01:24, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
This page states that JFK and Jackie O. had 4 children. I only know of 2.
Thanks,
Amy Singstock — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
64.250.101.186 (
talk) 01:18, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
The article needs more sources and inline citations. It has been tagged accordingly. SunCrow ( talk) 06:41, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
I was wrong to repeatedly edit JPK’s name in lead, aka edit war. I am raising the topic here in JPK’s WP page. I know that some may refer to him as Joseph Patrick Kennedy Sr. But referring to father and son as Joseph Sr. & Joseph Jr. is actually something that is done while they are alive. The patriarch of the Kennedys was named Joseph Patrick Kennedy not Joseph Patrick Kennedy Sr. His son was Joseph Patrick Kennedy Jr. He is also the namesake of his grandson (RFK’s son) Joseph Patrick Kennedy II as well as JPK II’s son Congressman Joseph Patrick Kennedy III. There is precedent for the names of prominent men who named their son “Junior.” President John F. Kennedy had a son John F. Kennedy Jr. but JFK is not referred to in his WP page as John F. Kennedy Sr. His brother Senator Robert F. Kennedy has a son Robert F. Kennedy Jr. but RFK is not referred to in his WP page as Robert F. Kennedy Sr. The same thing for Edward “Ted” Kennedy who has a son Edward “Ted” Kennedy Jr. The current president of the United States Donald J. Trump has a son Donald J. Trump Jr. Donald J. Trump is not referred to in his WP page as Donald J. Trump Sr. NapoleonX ( talk) 05:38, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
The article cites a source dated November 10, 1940, for Kennedy's comment about democracy being finished in England. It then suggests that FDR called him home and had him make a speech in favor of his reelection. That cannot be accurate, because the 1940 presidential election was held on November 5, 1940. 71.223.81.114 ( talk) 06:37, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
The chronology of the Recall section is a bit confusing. It seems to suggest that the order of events was:
The date listed on his infobox for the end of the ambassadorship is October 22nd, 1940, which is also what the US Embassy website says. I guess maybe it's ambiguous whether the end of the tenure coincides with the resignation or the recall, but I think in other cases, recalling an ambassador would not necessarily be the end of their term.
Something about this timeline is a bit nonsensical, since the quote about democracy being finished was printed after the presidential election. Is anyone able to clarify the order of events more clearly? Perhaps the Globe interview was printed significantly after it was given? I'm not sure. 74.85.92.237 ( talk) 08:47, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Insiders at ProPublica have been saying great things about Shirley's hard-fought relationship with Joseph. -John Potti — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.47.217.214 ( talk) 15:02, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Discusion of whether or not not there is any correctness (which appears in the current article version at time of writing, October 2023) of Kennedy's description as a "politician". Lcb500 ( talk) 23:49, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
The article describes Pringle as having confessed to being paid by Kennedy to frame Pantages on her deathbed, but one of the two sources cited for this, Cari Beauchamp's Joseph P. Kennedy's Hollywood Years says the opposite, pointing out that Pringle didn't make the alleged deathbed confession in 1933 because she was lived until 1996. This contradicts the other source cited, Kenneth Anger's Hollywood Babylon II which was published in 1984, 12 years before Pringle actually passed away. Given that Beauchamp was a historian and Anger a filmmaker/actor, it seems like she was a more reliable source. I think it would make sense to change the article to reflect that there were false rumors of Kennedy paying Pringle to frame Pantages. 24.44.151.234 ( talk) 15:41, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
This source suggests that Kennedy was not recalled at all, but wrote a 6 October 1940 letter to FDR asking to be relieved and saying he was coming home anyway. (Probably just because he was scared of the bombing campaign carried out by his German friends. He'd apparently moved his family out of London -- the King and Queen did not leave -- and became known as 'Jittery Joe' to the British press as a result.) He and his family arrived in New York on 27 October. The notorious Boston Sunday Globe interview in which he claimed 'Democracy is finished in England' only appeared on 10 November. It may have contributed to his formal sacking in February 1941, once FDR was re-inaugurated and didn't need his help with the Irish vote any more, but it occurred a month after he had already deserted his post. https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/joseph-p-kennedy-most-controversial-ambassador-to-great-britain/ There may be print sources that go into this a bit more. Khamba Tendal ( talk) 19:31, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. was a History good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
|
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The wording, "confined" in regard to Kennedy's eventual state following his stroke and rehabilitation is an acceptable description. There was an objection to it that seemed more along the lines of being politically correct rather than accurate and reflecting the time period when Kennedy lived and died. An IP then came along, having never edited the article previously, and reverted. Discussion really should take place rather than reverting/edit warring per WP:BRD. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 14:56, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
Hijacking this 10 months later. In the same area, Jnoelcook added this cn. I don't see why that needs a citation any more than the numerous other uncited but widely accepted and uncontroversial things in the article. The man couldn't talk after the stroke, let alone get up out of his wheelchair. It's not quite "sky is blue", but it's close. If Jnoelcook really feels a cite is needed for something like this, I think they should do the legwork. If they are ref-challenged, they can drop a link here and I'm sure someone will be willing to code the citation. ― Mandruss ☎ 18:08, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Coming fresh to this article, the fourth paragraph of the lead, focussed entirely on Rosemary's lobotomy, seems very oddly placed. While a tragedy for Rosemary, and an indicator of Joe's unsympathetic approach, it hardly seems one of the major facts of a very full life. The events are fully covered later in the article in the Marriage and family section, but I do wonder whether it warrants such prominence in the lead. I see this was the subject of discussion back in 2013, so rather than just edit it, I thought I'd raise it here. KJP1 ( talk) 19:06, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the "Ambassador To The United Kingdom" section, delete the "to" before the quote due to redundancy and grammatical incorrectness:
... in order to "to bring about a better understanding between the United States and Germany".
should read as:
... in order "to bring about a better understanding between the United States and Germany". 68.134.157.81 ( talk) 06:28, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Read: [1] See "Iced: The Story of Organized Crime in Canada By Stephen Schneider pp. 207-9 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gaamain ( talk • contribs) 01:15, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
It can easily be argued that the "disputes" were nothing more than a political stunt. 2601:447:4101:41F9:65DC:560F:EE83:B438 ( talk) 01:24, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
This page states that JFK and Jackie O. had 4 children. I only know of 2.
Thanks,
Amy Singstock — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
64.250.101.186 (
talk) 01:18, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
The article needs more sources and inline citations. It has been tagged accordingly. SunCrow ( talk) 06:41, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
I was wrong to repeatedly edit JPK’s name in lead, aka edit war. I am raising the topic here in JPK’s WP page. I know that some may refer to him as Joseph Patrick Kennedy Sr. But referring to father and son as Joseph Sr. & Joseph Jr. is actually something that is done while they are alive. The patriarch of the Kennedys was named Joseph Patrick Kennedy not Joseph Patrick Kennedy Sr. His son was Joseph Patrick Kennedy Jr. He is also the namesake of his grandson (RFK’s son) Joseph Patrick Kennedy II as well as JPK II’s son Congressman Joseph Patrick Kennedy III. There is precedent for the names of prominent men who named their son “Junior.” President John F. Kennedy had a son John F. Kennedy Jr. but JFK is not referred to in his WP page as John F. Kennedy Sr. His brother Senator Robert F. Kennedy has a son Robert F. Kennedy Jr. but RFK is not referred to in his WP page as Robert F. Kennedy Sr. The same thing for Edward “Ted” Kennedy who has a son Edward “Ted” Kennedy Jr. The current president of the United States Donald J. Trump has a son Donald J. Trump Jr. Donald J. Trump is not referred to in his WP page as Donald J. Trump Sr. NapoleonX ( talk) 05:38, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
The article cites a source dated November 10, 1940, for Kennedy's comment about democracy being finished in England. It then suggests that FDR called him home and had him make a speech in favor of his reelection. That cannot be accurate, because the 1940 presidential election was held on November 5, 1940. 71.223.81.114 ( talk) 06:37, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
The chronology of the Recall section is a bit confusing. It seems to suggest that the order of events was:
The date listed on his infobox for the end of the ambassadorship is October 22nd, 1940, which is also what the US Embassy website says. I guess maybe it's ambiguous whether the end of the tenure coincides with the resignation or the recall, but I think in other cases, recalling an ambassador would not necessarily be the end of their term.
Something about this timeline is a bit nonsensical, since the quote about democracy being finished was printed after the presidential election. Is anyone able to clarify the order of events more clearly? Perhaps the Globe interview was printed significantly after it was given? I'm not sure. 74.85.92.237 ( talk) 08:47, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Insiders at ProPublica have been saying great things about Shirley's hard-fought relationship with Joseph. -John Potti — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.47.217.214 ( talk) 15:02, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Discusion of whether or not not there is any correctness (which appears in the current article version at time of writing, October 2023) of Kennedy's description as a "politician". Lcb500 ( talk) 23:49, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
The article describes Pringle as having confessed to being paid by Kennedy to frame Pantages on her deathbed, but one of the two sources cited for this, Cari Beauchamp's Joseph P. Kennedy's Hollywood Years says the opposite, pointing out that Pringle didn't make the alleged deathbed confession in 1933 because she was lived until 1996. This contradicts the other source cited, Kenneth Anger's Hollywood Babylon II which was published in 1984, 12 years before Pringle actually passed away. Given that Beauchamp was a historian and Anger a filmmaker/actor, it seems like she was a more reliable source. I think it would make sense to change the article to reflect that there were false rumors of Kennedy paying Pringle to frame Pantages. 24.44.151.234 ( talk) 15:41, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
This source suggests that Kennedy was not recalled at all, but wrote a 6 October 1940 letter to FDR asking to be relieved and saying he was coming home anyway. (Probably just because he was scared of the bombing campaign carried out by his German friends. He'd apparently moved his family out of London -- the King and Queen did not leave -- and became known as 'Jittery Joe' to the British press as a result.) He and his family arrived in New York on 27 October. The notorious Boston Sunday Globe interview in which he claimed 'Democracy is finished in England' only appeared on 10 November. It may have contributed to his formal sacking in February 1941, once FDR was re-inaugurated and didn't need his help with the Irish vote any more, but it occurred a month after he had already deserted his post. https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/joseph-p-kennedy-most-controversial-ambassador-to-great-britain/ There may be print sources that go into this a bit more. Khamba Tendal ( talk) 19:31, 10 March 2024 (UTC)