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I dispute the statement in the lede that Joseph Galloway was a Founding Father. Galloway opposed separation of the colonies from Great Britain, resigned the Continental Congress in 1775, joined General Sir William Howe’s British army after the start of the war, became the civil administrator of Philadelphia during its occupation in 1777, fled to England after the Continental Army regained control of the city in 1778, and was convicted of high treason by Pennsylvania's General Assembly. Based on the description in the Wikipedia article Founding Fathers of the United States, I plan to replace this claim with the term Loyalist (American Revolution) and will provide additional wording in support of the term reflecting Galloway's opposition to the American Revolution. Meanwhile, I would appreciate feedback from other editors. Allreet ( talk) 05:37, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
I am reopening this dispute. Neither of the citations that have been added to the lead contain any information that would qualify Joseph Galloway as a Founding Father. This dispute parallels one currently in progress in the Founding Fathers article. If you read the works referenced in the citations supporting the title of founder in Galloway's article, you will find nothing to confirm his status as a Founding Father, only inferences made by the articles' titles. Werther's article, as I said above, analyzes signers of four documents related to the nation's founding but says nothing to confirm Galloway as a founder, though he did sign the first of these documents. In the second work referenced, nothing in the article refers to founding fathers other than the last paragraph, which states that Galloway's opponents are commemorated as founders, but indicates he is not. I will wait to remove the Founding Father wikilink and the two citations (though they may have other uses in this article) until after the dispute in the main article is resolved. I will be alerting the editor in question here via his talk page within the next day or two - well before I take any of the actions indicated. I am posting this current notice hoping some other editors might provide feedback. Allreet ( talk) 22:31, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
I have removed the two existing citations as erroneous. Neither supports Galloway as a Founding Father. The source referenced by the first citation is by the same writer who authored the following articles (none of the three specifically names Galloway or other signers of the Continental Association as "founders"), while the author of the second clearly states Galloway is not regarded a Founder.
I suggest the lead needs to be written, and information from the above sources as well as the following (among others) is needed to provide a better understanding of the subject.
Based on the four sources, the title Founding Father should be removed from the lead and the following needs to be summarized to provide a more accurate understanding of the subject: Galloway wasn't just a Loyalist - he was among the leading traitors to the American cause. He refused to run for the Second Continental Congress in 1775, opposed the Declaration, and within a few months of its signing, he joined the British army as one of Gen. Howe's closest aides. After providing military intelligence to Howe, helping him with logistics, and recruiting spies (up to 80), he was appointed to govern Philadelphia during its occupation. When the British evacuated, he fled to England and later was convicted of high treason by the Pennsylvania Assembly. This is not to say some of the current details don't belong in the lead, just that this other side deserves equal if not greater time. Allreet ( talk) 07:57, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
@ Randy Kryn: If you have any problems or suggestions with changes I made to the lead in Galloway's bio, please let me know. Regarding sources that need to be added elsewhere, you should apply your own. Here's a list of others that should also be considered (I have more):
I'm not certain as to where each of these applies in Founding Fathers pages, though I do know many either contradict sources currently being used or should be applied to give readers a more complete view. In any case, I hope you find these helpful. Allreet ( talk) 17:43, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I dispute the statement in the lede that Joseph Galloway was a Founding Father. Galloway opposed separation of the colonies from Great Britain, resigned the Continental Congress in 1775, joined General Sir William Howe’s British army after the start of the war, became the civil administrator of Philadelphia during its occupation in 1777, fled to England after the Continental Army regained control of the city in 1778, and was convicted of high treason by Pennsylvania's General Assembly. Based on the description in the Wikipedia article Founding Fathers of the United States, I plan to replace this claim with the term Loyalist (American Revolution) and will provide additional wording in support of the term reflecting Galloway's opposition to the American Revolution. Meanwhile, I would appreciate feedback from other editors. Allreet ( talk) 05:37, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
I am reopening this dispute. Neither of the citations that have been added to the lead contain any information that would qualify Joseph Galloway as a Founding Father. This dispute parallels one currently in progress in the Founding Fathers article. If you read the works referenced in the citations supporting the title of founder in Galloway's article, you will find nothing to confirm his status as a Founding Father, only inferences made by the articles' titles. Werther's article, as I said above, analyzes signers of four documents related to the nation's founding but says nothing to confirm Galloway as a founder, though he did sign the first of these documents. In the second work referenced, nothing in the article refers to founding fathers other than the last paragraph, which states that Galloway's opponents are commemorated as founders, but indicates he is not. I will wait to remove the Founding Father wikilink and the two citations (though they may have other uses in this article) until after the dispute in the main article is resolved. I will be alerting the editor in question here via his talk page within the next day or two - well before I take any of the actions indicated. I am posting this current notice hoping some other editors might provide feedback. Allreet ( talk) 22:31, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
I have removed the two existing citations as erroneous. Neither supports Galloway as a Founding Father. The source referenced by the first citation is by the same writer who authored the following articles (none of the three specifically names Galloway or other signers of the Continental Association as "founders"), while the author of the second clearly states Galloway is not regarded a Founder.
I suggest the lead needs to be written, and information from the above sources as well as the following (among others) is needed to provide a better understanding of the subject.
Based on the four sources, the title Founding Father should be removed from the lead and the following needs to be summarized to provide a more accurate understanding of the subject: Galloway wasn't just a Loyalist - he was among the leading traitors to the American cause. He refused to run for the Second Continental Congress in 1775, opposed the Declaration, and within a few months of its signing, he joined the British army as one of Gen. Howe's closest aides. After providing military intelligence to Howe, helping him with logistics, and recruiting spies (up to 80), he was appointed to govern Philadelphia during its occupation. When the British evacuated, he fled to England and later was convicted of high treason by the Pennsylvania Assembly. This is not to say some of the current details don't belong in the lead, just that this other side deserves equal if not greater time. Allreet ( talk) 07:57, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
@ Randy Kryn: If you have any problems or suggestions with changes I made to the lead in Galloway's bio, please let me know. Regarding sources that need to be added elsewhere, you should apply your own. Here's a list of others that should also be considered (I have more):
I'm not certain as to where each of these applies in Founding Fathers pages, though I do know many either contradict sources currently being used or should be applied to give readers a more complete view. In any case, I hope you find these helpful. Allreet ( talk) 17:43, 23 February 2022 (UTC)