Joseph-Louis Lagrange was a Mathematics good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
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Citizenship is not about ethnicity. Italy didn't exist in 1736. Lagrange was born in Turin part of States of Savoy. He should be addressed as Savoyard or Piedmontese (principality of Piedmont). Julius Caesar is addressed as Roman not as Italian.
Otherwise, it should be mentioned that he was of French descent from his father and mother, in particular descendant of Descartes. I added a reference from the french Senate to prove it : https://www.senat.fr/evenement/archives/D30/lagrange.html
Speaking of ethnicity, both parents' last names are French. Lagrange signed his name 'Lagrange', which means 'the barn' in French.
91.168.147.106 ( talk) 21:57, 12 December 2020 (UTC)xxx
In 1761, Lagrange stood without a rival as the foremost mathematician living.
Greater than Leonhard Euler?
The issue of Lagrange's nationality/ethnicity has been discussed at length some years ago (for example here ). First of all, the word "Italian" has nothing to do with the existence of an Italian state, but with the ethnicity. An "Italian nation" has existed at least since the 13th century, and there is general consensus about it. Dante was Italian, Leonardo da Vinci (another famous person who spent the last years of his life in France) Italian, and so on, as much as Luther was German before the birth of a German national state. Back to Lagrange, he was Italian, born in Italy, moved to Germany and finally to France. But the main point is not this, but that the mention of an ethnicity in a biography is regulated by WP:ETHNICITY, a part of the manual of style. In the lead of a biography should be mentioned the ethnicity of a person when he/she became notable, and not the others. In the case of Lagrange this is the Italian one, because when he left Turin for Berlin he was already known without any doubt as one of the most important mathematicians in Europe. Adopting the same criterium, Riccardo Giacconi, Nobel prize for physics born in Genoa, for Wikipedia is not Italian, but American, since he moved to the U.S. before he discovered anything. One can agree or not about this way of defining the ethnicity, and can try to change it (I did some years ago, but without success), but the important thing it is that this is part of a guideline, and as such can be enforced (the last discussion about Lagrange ended with a block of the other person) and spares a lot of discussions and edit warring. Bye, Alex2006 ( talk) 06:20, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
D.Lazard: Of course Lagrange became a French citizen, was a senator of the French Empire, and asked for the annexation of his homeland - Piedmont - to the Empire. None contests it. But, as you can read above, there is a Guideline of the manual of Style that should be respected, and this is the only reason why we write here only "Italian". If you are not happy with this guideline, we can open a thread on the Manual of Style discussion page and we can try to change it (I am not happy with it either). Alex2006 ( talk) 10:13, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable. In most modern-day cases this will be the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident. Applied here, this means clearly that French citizenship must appear in the first sentence. So, I'll revert you again, as, for the moment, there is a consensus (two against one) against your opinion. D.Lazard ( talk) 11:30, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
I find it pretty crazy that a guy this intelligent who made such contributions to science only showed interest at 17. This is a clear example of late bloomer Kwiky ( talk) 09:19, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
There is a single-sentence paragraph at the end of the main section on Lagrange's page that states:
In 2020, mobile rhythm game Arcaea posthumously released a character named after him for the Arcaea Song Contest 2020 Grand Prize. [1]
To me, that seems like an incredibly trivial detail about Lagrange. It has no business being in the main portion of his article. Note that the game in question -- Arcaea -- is not a particularly popular or culturally relevant game, as evidenced by how brief its own Wikipedia article is. It's a stub, despite being a game that was first released more than 6 years ago. Perhaps this fact best belongs in a new section near the bottom of the article, like a "Legacy" or "References in popular culture" section? Regardless, it certainly doesn't belong where it currently is.
I don't feel that I have enough experience to make a change as large as moving this/creating an entirely new section for an article this large and important / about such an important figure. I'm hoping that someone else here better knows where this should go.
Any thoughts? Phatmatt12188 ( talk) 20:18, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
Joseph-Louis Lagrange was a Mathematics good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
|
This
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 365 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
Citizenship is not about ethnicity. Italy didn't exist in 1736. Lagrange was born in Turin part of States of Savoy. He should be addressed as Savoyard or Piedmontese (principality of Piedmont). Julius Caesar is addressed as Roman not as Italian.
Otherwise, it should be mentioned that he was of French descent from his father and mother, in particular descendant of Descartes. I added a reference from the french Senate to prove it : https://www.senat.fr/evenement/archives/D30/lagrange.html
Speaking of ethnicity, both parents' last names are French. Lagrange signed his name 'Lagrange', which means 'the barn' in French.
91.168.147.106 ( talk) 21:57, 12 December 2020 (UTC)xxx
In 1761, Lagrange stood without a rival as the foremost mathematician living.
Greater than Leonhard Euler?
The issue of Lagrange's nationality/ethnicity has been discussed at length some years ago (for example here ). First of all, the word "Italian" has nothing to do with the existence of an Italian state, but with the ethnicity. An "Italian nation" has existed at least since the 13th century, and there is general consensus about it. Dante was Italian, Leonardo da Vinci (another famous person who spent the last years of his life in France) Italian, and so on, as much as Luther was German before the birth of a German national state. Back to Lagrange, he was Italian, born in Italy, moved to Germany and finally to France. But the main point is not this, but that the mention of an ethnicity in a biography is regulated by WP:ETHNICITY, a part of the manual of style. In the lead of a biography should be mentioned the ethnicity of a person when he/she became notable, and not the others. In the case of Lagrange this is the Italian one, because when he left Turin for Berlin he was already known without any doubt as one of the most important mathematicians in Europe. Adopting the same criterium, Riccardo Giacconi, Nobel prize for physics born in Genoa, for Wikipedia is not Italian, but American, since he moved to the U.S. before he discovered anything. One can agree or not about this way of defining the ethnicity, and can try to change it (I did some years ago, but without success), but the important thing it is that this is part of a guideline, and as such can be enforced (the last discussion about Lagrange ended with a block of the other person) and spares a lot of discussions and edit warring. Bye, Alex2006 ( talk) 06:20, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
D.Lazard: Of course Lagrange became a French citizen, was a senator of the French Empire, and asked for the annexation of his homeland - Piedmont - to the Empire. None contests it. But, as you can read above, there is a Guideline of the manual of Style that should be respected, and this is the only reason why we write here only "Italian". If you are not happy with this guideline, we can open a thread on the Manual of Style discussion page and we can try to change it (I am not happy with it either). Alex2006 ( talk) 10:13, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable. In most modern-day cases this will be the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident. Applied here, this means clearly that French citizenship must appear in the first sentence. So, I'll revert you again, as, for the moment, there is a consensus (two against one) against your opinion. D.Lazard ( talk) 11:30, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
I find it pretty crazy that a guy this intelligent who made such contributions to science only showed interest at 17. This is a clear example of late bloomer Kwiky ( talk) 09:19, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
There is a single-sentence paragraph at the end of the main section on Lagrange's page that states:
In 2020, mobile rhythm game Arcaea posthumously released a character named after him for the Arcaea Song Contest 2020 Grand Prize. [1]
To me, that seems like an incredibly trivial detail about Lagrange. It has no business being in the main portion of his article. Note that the game in question -- Arcaea -- is not a particularly popular or culturally relevant game, as evidenced by how brief its own Wikipedia article is. It's a stub, despite being a game that was first released more than 6 years ago. Perhaps this fact best belongs in a new section near the bottom of the article, like a "Legacy" or "References in popular culture" section? Regardless, it certainly doesn't belong where it currently is.
I don't feel that I have enough experience to make a change as large as moving this/creating an entirely new section for an article this large and important / about such an important figure. I'm hoping that someone else here better knows where this should go.
Any thoughts? Phatmatt12188 ( talk) 20:18, 11 October 2023 (UTC)