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![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 24 November 2008 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
made a few edits to clean up grammar or to increase clarity. rather than put a reason for each one I'll just explain them here. i didn't change the intent of any statement. i also added a tag for in-line citations, because there are very few. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.182.136.11 ( talk) 18:13, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
This article was created to move the usual conspiracy theory crap that surrounds any mass killing to its own article, away from the mainstream history.
The Jonestown massacre is well documented to the extent that we have actual audiotapes of Jones speaking to his followers to encourage them to commit suicide, and we even have audiotapes of at least one member arguing with him. We have eyewitness accounts from survivors which support the content of the audiotapes. Thus, I find it difficult to believe that the CIA was involved in the massacre.
On the other hand, it would not be surprising to discover that the CIA was watching Jones. After all, the man was an admitted socialist. But it is difficult to believe that Ryan would have gone to Jonestown if the CIA had a spy actually within Jones' camp. Ryan surely asked the intelligence community for information before flying to Jonestown, and if they had any, why would he have gone?
And as for CIA involvement in the massacre itself, well, if you believe that then you'd better watch out for the Black helicopters. Farcast 04:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
What if the CIA wanted to eliminate Ryan? 173.75.156.27 ( talk) 00:20, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
CIA interest in Jonestown isn't far-fetched. The US/USSR Cold War struggle in Central and South America is well documented beginning with the Cuban Missile Crisis and continuing through to the fall of the Sandanista regime in Nicaraugua. Jones's words during the suicides was that the "GDF" (Guyanese Defense Forces) were on their way to torture and kill them. Jones had more than $1.5 million in cash on hand, which CNN says was intended for the Soviet Embassy. The U. S. Government propbably had an interest to see the thing shut down to reduce risk those there. Possibly it saw the 900 citizens as easy hostages in the event of a crisis, like the Iran Hostage crisis that occured in the Middle East less than a year after Jonestown. 69.255.0.91 ( talk) 19:00, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
The name is introduced here as a possible CIA operative. But neither here nor in Peoples Temple is there any explanation of who he was and what role he is known to have played in relation to the cult. Can someone who knows the story add this info? -- Alvestrand 06:33, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
The second sentence of the article tails off, incomplete, before the (presumably) next one, which begins with 'Early reports ...' Although I've read this incomplete bit several times, I can't figure out what it is saying, so hesitated to try and edit. Ironical, considering the topic! Can anyone clarify? Thanks. whitestarlion ( talk) 18:05, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
Also curious about the strange gap in the second sentence. 173.75.156.27 ( talk) 12:57, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm not familiar enough with the subject matter to even begin to attempt to fix this, but I have read this article. I still don't know WHAT the conspiracy is. The introduction should summarize what the conspiracy theory theorizes. One or two sentences at the start that explain what the theory alleges occurred. Could someone more familiar with the subject matter take a stab at this? Lot 49a talk 17:51, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
I don't know much, but I know I google... and that may be-ee all-ll I need to kno-oooow....
In all seriousness, took a stab at rewriting the article to make it a bit more cohesive. I didn't want to add too much but I answered some of the questions put up in the discussion as best I could find. Entire thing still needs work, but maybe this is a better frame to start hanging shingles on. 173.75.156.27 ( talk) 00:22, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
This: "Let's ignore all the other possible alternative explanations for the events of Jonestown, and focus on just one man," seems excessively narrative for wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.197.7.22 ( talk) 16:33, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
The whole of that last section contains NPOV, and states opinion as fact (i.e. Stoen WOULD have known" should be "Stoen would PROBABLY have known" IMHO. I'll review it when I've read more on the subject. Pollythewasp ( talk) 14:03, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
I removed this since it had no references,NPOV problems and original research. [ [1]] Bhny ( talk) 21:15, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
Do those of you familiar with the main Jonestown article's history remember the mention of a CIA log from early morning the day after the event? There was a link to the scanned image of the log where the Jonestown event was noted down at a point in the early morning well before the suicides/murders were officially discovered. That mention of the log eventually disappeared from the main Jonestown article and never made it to this conspiracy article. Does anyone know why? Was the scan of the log unverified? Thanks! -- Sephiroth9611 ( talk) 15:42, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 |
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 24 November 2008 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
made a few edits to clean up grammar or to increase clarity. rather than put a reason for each one I'll just explain them here. i didn't change the intent of any statement. i also added a tag for in-line citations, because there are very few. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.182.136.11 ( talk) 18:13, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
This article was created to move the usual conspiracy theory crap that surrounds any mass killing to its own article, away from the mainstream history.
The Jonestown massacre is well documented to the extent that we have actual audiotapes of Jones speaking to his followers to encourage them to commit suicide, and we even have audiotapes of at least one member arguing with him. We have eyewitness accounts from survivors which support the content of the audiotapes. Thus, I find it difficult to believe that the CIA was involved in the massacre.
On the other hand, it would not be surprising to discover that the CIA was watching Jones. After all, the man was an admitted socialist. But it is difficult to believe that Ryan would have gone to Jonestown if the CIA had a spy actually within Jones' camp. Ryan surely asked the intelligence community for information before flying to Jonestown, and if they had any, why would he have gone?
And as for CIA involvement in the massacre itself, well, if you believe that then you'd better watch out for the Black helicopters. Farcast 04:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
What if the CIA wanted to eliminate Ryan? 173.75.156.27 ( talk) 00:20, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
CIA interest in Jonestown isn't far-fetched. The US/USSR Cold War struggle in Central and South America is well documented beginning with the Cuban Missile Crisis and continuing through to the fall of the Sandanista regime in Nicaraugua. Jones's words during the suicides was that the "GDF" (Guyanese Defense Forces) were on their way to torture and kill them. Jones had more than $1.5 million in cash on hand, which CNN says was intended for the Soviet Embassy. The U. S. Government propbably had an interest to see the thing shut down to reduce risk those there. Possibly it saw the 900 citizens as easy hostages in the event of a crisis, like the Iran Hostage crisis that occured in the Middle East less than a year after Jonestown. 69.255.0.91 ( talk) 19:00, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
The name is introduced here as a possible CIA operative. But neither here nor in Peoples Temple is there any explanation of who he was and what role he is known to have played in relation to the cult. Can someone who knows the story add this info? -- Alvestrand 06:33, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
The second sentence of the article tails off, incomplete, before the (presumably) next one, which begins with 'Early reports ...' Although I've read this incomplete bit several times, I can't figure out what it is saying, so hesitated to try and edit. Ironical, considering the topic! Can anyone clarify? Thanks. whitestarlion ( talk) 18:05, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
Also curious about the strange gap in the second sentence. 173.75.156.27 ( talk) 12:57, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm not familiar enough with the subject matter to even begin to attempt to fix this, but I have read this article. I still don't know WHAT the conspiracy is. The introduction should summarize what the conspiracy theory theorizes. One or two sentences at the start that explain what the theory alleges occurred. Could someone more familiar with the subject matter take a stab at this? Lot 49a talk 17:51, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
I don't know much, but I know I google... and that may be-ee all-ll I need to kno-oooow....
In all seriousness, took a stab at rewriting the article to make it a bit more cohesive. I didn't want to add too much but I answered some of the questions put up in the discussion as best I could find. Entire thing still needs work, but maybe this is a better frame to start hanging shingles on. 173.75.156.27 ( talk) 00:22, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
This: "Let's ignore all the other possible alternative explanations for the events of Jonestown, and focus on just one man," seems excessively narrative for wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.197.7.22 ( talk) 16:33, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
The whole of that last section contains NPOV, and states opinion as fact (i.e. Stoen WOULD have known" should be "Stoen would PROBABLY have known" IMHO. I'll review it when I've read more on the subject. Pollythewasp ( talk) 14:03, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
I removed this since it had no references,NPOV problems and original research. [ [1]] Bhny ( talk) 21:15, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
Do those of you familiar with the main Jonestown article's history remember the mention of a CIA log from early morning the day after the event? There was a link to the scanned image of the log where the Jonestown event was noted down at a point in the early morning well before the suicides/murders were officially discovered. That mention of the log eventually disappeared from the main Jonestown article and never made it to this conspiracy article. Does anyone know why? Was the scan of the log unverified? Thanks! -- Sephiroth9611 ( talk) 15:42, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Jonestown conspiracy theories. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 22:29, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 |