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Lovely article, but I quibble with that conversion. The purchasing power of a pound was probably much greater than that. This is a notoriously tricky issue, and I have no direct evidence from the time period to point to, but Conan Doyle wrote that £750/year was a gentleman's income in/about 1890. Jane Austen's figures reveal that gentile "poverty" (only one or two servants) was achievable at about £300/year or so. I would think $240,000 might be closer to the mark. That Wild was willing to extort a guinea from an individual reveals something about how much a guinea was worth - perhaps a few hundred dollars in today's money?
To whoever does the boiling and rendering for FA. I think that's you, Raul, but I don't want to presume. May I make a suggestion on image to use? I like the "True Effigy," but the image that I think gets to the quick of it best is the 2nd image, the "Gallows Ticket." That one contains the picture of Wild and has neat 18th c. iconography and has an example of the odd sensibility of the 18th c., where they could joke, gloat, and mourn a death all at the same time. Also, I think it bears looking at, so visitors who click on the image will be rewarded for their pains. Geogre 17:39, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I’m dubious about the etymology of double cross. I don't believe it dates back to 1720 or earlier. I don't have a print reference handy, but online references (of unknown accuracy) seem to agree:
1. http://www.etymonline.com states that the term dates from 1834.
2. ( http://www.phatnav.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sign_of_the_cross states that the term is related to fixing horse races. It also confirms the 1834 date.
3. http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/5/messages/614.html gives credit to the "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Facts on File, New York, 1997) for a longer discussion of “double cross” that associates it with the use of “cross” in Thackeray’s ' Vanity Fair'; he used it to describe fixed horse races. It also claims a relationship with an older expression: “put on the double double” which has the same meaning.
Unless someone can refute that, I'm going to state that this is a etymological legend. Thanks, Throbblefoot 01:31, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Thank you, Geogre and Bishonen, for confirming my findings. Throbblefoot 23:17, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
A recent change now has him being born to a rich family, as opposed to a poor one. I don't know enough about the man to comment, but it might be a case of a user having a spot of fun. BigHaz 07:11, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I vaguely recall Half-Cock Jack having a thieftaker alias suspiciously similar to Jonathan Wild. Don't remember what the name he used was, tho... crazyeddie 07:42, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
A note of hand was a promissory note or IOU: Dictionary.com. It would have had monetary value, so it's a reasonable thing to mention in an advertisement. It would be signed by the debtor. I don't know whether it would necessarily name the creditor. -- Stephengw 14:00, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I want to publically announce how astonished I am at the erudition, commitment, and dedication of the French and German language editors who made Jonathan Wild a Featured Article in both of those languages. I'm a monoglot, I'm afraid (well, I read Latin and used to be able to read ancient Greek, and I read Anglo-Saxon (Old English)), and so translation of the German and French articles is a thousand miles beyond me, but I could only wish that this .en article had as much of the high quality, serious scholarship that theirs does. It is not this Featured Article that shows the best of what Wikipedia does, but the way that all three Featured Articles create a superlative coverage of a significant figure in history. Geogre 18:52, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
The French article is a translation of this one, so I don't know how it's more "professional." The German one has some information that this doesn't and lacks some information this has. Choose to work from German, if you will, but you would be best served looking at both. (And the primary author of the German version started from this one.) It's not really necessary to insult this article to praise the others. (I've had time since the comments above to have done the translations for myself.) Geogre 21:38, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
I was just in a rotten mood. Sorry for being thin-skinned (a no-no for a longtime Wiki guy like me). It's just that this was the most readable of my Featured Articles because of the good yarn it spins, and, of course, Wild is one of the more important mobsters to know about. He's had an extensive cultural life. There is now, btw, an article on his associate, Charles Hitchen. Geogre 17:23, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Is anyone able to give a source for the fact that the Fountain Tavern was a brothel? I can't find confirmation anywhere and would like to use and cite it if true. TW
I'm trying to rework on the Jonathan Wild article because I thought the rest of the article seems unsourced; I tried to do it last night, but you reverted the article back to the old form! Why? Plus, the "Jack Sheppard struggle" claimed that Jack Sheppard was first arrested in February 1724, while in the Jack Sheppard article he was first arrested in late April!
Plus, this article never mentioned anything about Blueskin working with Wild before being arrested and convicted and slashing Wild's throat with a penknife the way the Jack Sheppard article did! Also, this article mentioned little about Wild's trial and never mentioned anything about his becoming terrified after being sentenced to death, refusing to eat or go to church, and trying to kill himself by drinking opium but vomiting and sinking into a coma.
Even worse, this article made little mention about Wild's hanging and dissection, but not on his burial. I have proof that Wild was buried in the churchyard on St Pancras Old Church before being exhumed and dissected, as shown in his profile on Find A Grave.com. Can I rework on this article without you trying to revert it to the old form, please? -- Angeldeb82 17:56, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I made a few improvements of this article as follows: I reworked the "Jack Sheppard struggle and downfall" section and corrected the whole thing and added more sources for this, including Blueskin's attempt to murder Wild and Wild's suicide attempt. Plus, I added Wild to the "List of people executed by hanging" section and corrected his possible year of birth as 1682. Oh, and I added his burial too. So what do you think of my improvements? Do you like it? -- Angeldeb82 02:10, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not trying to dramatize you or anything, I just want to know if you like my improvements. -- Angeldeb82 02:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
The article states March 1710,( jonathan wild was) and sent to Wood Street Counter. Following the link to Wood Street Counter a.k.a Compter this article states that the gaol in question was destroyed in the 1666 fire and not rebuilt until 1791 - making it impossible for Jonathan Wild to have been sent to this particular prison in 1710. Fidelia ( talk) 05:37, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm honestly puzzled by the following passage:
It seems possible that what is meant is "Field informed Wild about Lyon's connection to Sheppard", but (a) I'm only about ninety percent certain that Field informed Wild, as I've never encountered "inform on x" used to mean anything other than "tell on x", which is to say, "inform (the authorities) about x", while here it seems from context that Wild is being informed rather than being informed on; and (b) assuming that Field informed Wild, I'm only wildly guessing what information was conveyed, as it really isn't at all clear to me from context. Pi zero ( talk) 14:22, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
The external link " http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/sheppard.htm" is no longer active and should be changed to the current URL " http://rictornorton.co.uk/grubstreet/sheppard.htm".
Rictornorton ( talk) 12:11, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
Many thanks -- Yes, I think I've corrected the Luigi del Riccio link. Rictornorton ( talk) 14:26, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Jonathan Wild/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
needs inline citations and lead should conform to WP:LEAD -- plange 21:03, 24 September 2006 (UTC) |
Last edited at 21:03, 24 September 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 20:29, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
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To what does "Height 12 m (39 ft 4 in)m" even refer? SalineBrain ( talk) 03:16, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Jonathan Wild article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Jonathan Wild is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | ||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on February 9, 2005. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Former featured article |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
Lovely article, but I quibble with that conversion. The purchasing power of a pound was probably much greater than that. This is a notoriously tricky issue, and I have no direct evidence from the time period to point to, but Conan Doyle wrote that £750/year was a gentleman's income in/about 1890. Jane Austen's figures reveal that gentile "poverty" (only one or two servants) was achievable at about £300/year or so. I would think $240,000 might be closer to the mark. That Wild was willing to extort a guinea from an individual reveals something about how much a guinea was worth - perhaps a few hundred dollars in today's money?
To whoever does the boiling and rendering for FA. I think that's you, Raul, but I don't want to presume. May I make a suggestion on image to use? I like the "True Effigy," but the image that I think gets to the quick of it best is the 2nd image, the "Gallows Ticket." That one contains the picture of Wild and has neat 18th c. iconography and has an example of the odd sensibility of the 18th c., where they could joke, gloat, and mourn a death all at the same time. Also, I think it bears looking at, so visitors who click on the image will be rewarded for their pains. Geogre 17:39, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I’m dubious about the etymology of double cross. I don't believe it dates back to 1720 or earlier. I don't have a print reference handy, but online references (of unknown accuracy) seem to agree:
1. http://www.etymonline.com states that the term dates from 1834.
2. ( http://www.phatnav.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sign_of_the_cross states that the term is related to fixing horse races. It also confirms the 1834 date.
3. http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/5/messages/614.html gives credit to the "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Facts on File, New York, 1997) for a longer discussion of “double cross” that associates it with the use of “cross” in Thackeray’s ' Vanity Fair'; he used it to describe fixed horse races. It also claims a relationship with an older expression: “put on the double double” which has the same meaning.
Unless someone can refute that, I'm going to state that this is a etymological legend. Thanks, Throbblefoot 01:31, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Thank you, Geogre and Bishonen, for confirming my findings. Throbblefoot 23:17, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
A recent change now has him being born to a rich family, as opposed to a poor one. I don't know enough about the man to comment, but it might be a case of a user having a spot of fun. BigHaz 07:11, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I vaguely recall Half-Cock Jack having a thieftaker alias suspiciously similar to Jonathan Wild. Don't remember what the name he used was, tho... crazyeddie 07:42, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
A note of hand was a promissory note or IOU: Dictionary.com. It would have had monetary value, so it's a reasonable thing to mention in an advertisement. It would be signed by the debtor. I don't know whether it would necessarily name the creditor. -- Stephengw 14:00, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I want to publically announce how astonished I am at the erudition, commitment, and dedication of the French and German language editors who made Jonathan Wild a Featured Article in both of those languages. I'm a monoglot, I'm afraid (well, I read Latin and used to be able to read ancient Greek, and I read Anglo-Saxon (Old English)), and so translation of the German and French articles is a thousand miles beyond me, but I could only wish that this .en article had as much of the high quality, serious scholarship that theirs does. It is not this Featured Article that shows the best of what Wikipedia does, but the way that all three Featured Articles create a superlative coverage of a significant figure in history. Geogre 18:52, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
The French article is a translation of this one, so I don't know how it's more "professional." The German one has some information that this doesn't and lacks some information this has. Choose to work from German, if you will, but you would be best served looking at both. (And the primary author of the German version started from this one.) It's not really necessary to insult this article to praise the others. (I've had time since the comments above to have done the translations for myself.) Geogre 21:38, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
I was just in a rotten mood. Sorry for being thin-skinned (a no-no for a longtime Wiki guy like me). It's just that this was the most readable of my Featured Articles because of the good yarn it spins, and, of course, Wild is one of the more important mobsters to know about. He's had an extensive cultural life. There is now, btw, an article on his associate, Charles Hitchen. Geogre 17:23, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Is anyone able to give a source for the fact that the Fountain Tavern was a brothel? I can't find confirmation anywhere and would like to use and cite it if true. TW
I'm trying to rework on the Jonathan Wild article because I thought the rest of the article seems unsourced; I tried to do it last night, but you reverted the article back to the old form! Why? Plus, the "Jack Sheppard struggle" claimed that Jack Sheppard was first arrested in February 1724, while in the Jack Sheppard article he was first arrested in late April!
Plus, this article never mentioned anything about Blueskin working with Wild before being arrested and convicted and slashing Wild's throat with a penknife the way the Jack Sheppard article did! Also, this article mentioned little about Wild's trial and never mentioned anything about his becoming terrified after being sentenced to death, refusing to eat or go to church, and trying to kill himself by drinking opium but vomiting and sinking into a coma.
Even worse, this article made little mention about Wild's hanging and dissection, but not on his burial. I have proof that Wild was buried in the churchyard on St Pancras Old Church before being exhumed and dissected, as shown in his profile on Find A Grave.com. Can I rework on this article without you trying to revert it to the old form, please? -- Angeldeb82 17:56, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I made a few improvements of this article as follows: I reworked the "Jack Sheppard struggle and downfall" section and corrected the whole thing and added more sources for this, including Blueskin's attempt to murder Wild and Wild's suicide attempt. Plus, I added Wild to the "List of people executed by hanging" section and corrected his possible year of birth as 1682. Oh, and I added his burial too. So what do you think of my improvements? Do you like it? -- Angeldeb82 02:10, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not trying to dramatize you or anything, I just want to know if you like my improvements. -- Angeldeb82 02:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
The article states March 1710,( jonathan wild was) and sent to Wood Street Counter. Following the link to Wood Street Counter a.k.a Compter this article states that the gaol in question was destroyed in the 1666 fire and not rebuilt until 1791 - making it impossible for Jonathan Wild to have been sent to this particular prison in 1710. Fidelia ( talk) 05:37, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm honestly puzzled by the following passage:
It seems possible that what is meant is "Field informed Wild about Lyon's connection to Sheppard", but (a) I'm only about ninety percent certain that Field informed Wild, as I've never encountered "inform on x" used to mean anything other than "tell on x", which is to say, "inform (the authorities) about x", while here it seems from context that Wild is being informed rather than being informed on; and (b) assuming that Field informed Wild, I'm only wildly guessing what information was conveyed, as it really isn't at all clear to me from context. Pi zero ( talk) 14:22, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
The external link " http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/sheppard.htm" is no longer active and should be changed to the current URL " http://rictornorton.co.uk/grubstreet/sheppard.htm".
Rictornorton ( talk) 12:11, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
Many thanks -- Yes, I think I've corrected the Luigi del Riccio link. Rictornorton ( talk) 14:26, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Jonathan Wild/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
needs inline citations and lead should conform to WP:LEAD -- plange 21:03, 24 September 2006 (UTC) |
Last edited at 21:03, 24 September 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 20:29, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
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To what does "Height 12 m (39 ft 4 in)m" even refer? SalineBrain ( talk) 03:16, 24 January 2018 (UTC)