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Why does the reference to Jolpa have to be "dedicated to"? Shouldn't encyclopedia articles be "about" something?—Preceding unsigned comment added by MrDemeanour ( talk • contribs)
This article needs a lot more citation. As it stands, it appears to be biased. maintained a teaching known as Shentong, which is closely tied to the Indian Yogacara school is contentious. Yogacarya was completely acceptable to the Gelugpa school. Indeed, there are many statements made saying that both Yogacarya (which is after all rooted in the Method lineage of Maitreya/Asanga) and Madhyamaka (rooted in the Wisdom lineage of Nagarjuna) are both considered to be valid philosophical viewpoints. Moreover, IIRC the term 'rangtong' is not used reflexively by the Gelugpa school, though I may be wrong about this. As I understand the shentong position, the Gelukpa held that shentong is basically positivistic. ( 20040302 10:04, 22 April 2006 (UTC))
Another problem line is The Jonangpa interpreted Shentong to imply that there is a value in inaction and non-striving, which is associated with the teachings of medieval Chan Buddhism in China (which also gave rise to Zen Buddhism in Japan). which I think is completely incorrect. -- rudy 16:23, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
The Shentong article is pretty good too, if you'd like to consult that. Sylvain1972 13:21, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
This association with Chinese Buddhism tainted the Jonangpa in the eyes of the Gelugpa who considered the true teachings to derive from the Indian saints, particularly Atisha. An additional motivation in criticizing the Jonangpa sect as Chan-followers was that it enabled the Gelugpa to lay claim to the high moral ground previously held only by the rival Nyingmapa sect who were proud of their ancient and unsullied transmission from the Indian saints (and being sullied by later transmissions as were the Sakyapa, Kagyupa, and Gelugpa).
This badly needs references. It certainly appears to be POV, in that I doubt the Gelugpa agree with it as it stands. As mentioned above, the Jonangpa value in inaction and non-striving certainly would be rejected by the Geluk, without anything else being needed. What reasons were given by the Geluk? They are renowned for using academic arguments to justify their positions - is there any record of these? ( 20040302 20:11, 9 May 2006 (UTC))
I think this could use some clearing up. If the Jonang lineage claims to be an independent, fifth school, and Khalkha Jetsun Dampa is the head, how can he also be head of the Gelug lineage in Mongolia, as the current wiki article on him states? Sylvain1972 21:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
The
Zhentong
annexure by the
Gelugpa directly yielded the flight of the Institution of the Dalai Lama and the
Himalayan
Diaspora.
Aum
Ah
Hung
Phet
Svaha
B9 hummingbird hovering (
talk •
contribs) 01:29, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
jo nang - Jonangpa. The lineage of masters of the Shentong School who were known by their monastery at Jomo Nang. They include Yumo Mikyö Dorje, the founder of the school, Tukje Tsöndrü, Dölpowa Sherab Gyaltsen and Taranatha [ry] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.75.200.77 ( talk) 22:11, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Hey Jayaguru-Shishya,
I understand some of your concerns about overlinking, but I find them confusing here.
I link things like Kagyupa to Kagyu + pa because Kagyupa is a redirect to Kagyu. No change in text, but a change in redirect. That's why Kagyupa appears as a single link - this is a feature of wikipedia. I look for redirects and fix them.
Also, rangtong and the philosophical terms I changed redirect to the pages I fixed their redirect to. The prasangika page appears not to address rangtong properly, but it is in fact rangtong. There's one book at the end of the page that mentions rangtong, I'll see if I can find more cites and work on that page.
As for stupa-vihara, neither term is familiar to the average reader even though they are English words and hence they deserve wikilinks. That's what wikilinks are for. If you want to just leave out that particular bit of text, okay, that's fine. Ogress smash! 17:14, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
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Why does the reference to Jolpa have to be "dedicated to"? Shouldn't encyclopedia articles be "about" something?—Preceding unsigned comment added by MrDemeanour ( talk • contribs)
This article needs a lot more citation. As it stands, it appears to be biased. maintained a teaching known as Shentong, which is closely tied to the Indian Yogacara school is contentious. Yogacarya was completely acceptable to the Gelugpa school. Indeed, there are many statements made saying that both Yogacarya (which is after all rooted in the Method lineage of Maitreya/Asanga) and Madhyamaka (rooted in the Wisdom lineage of Nagarjuna) are both considered to be valid philosophical viewpoints. Moreover, IIRC the term 'rangtong' is not used reflexively by the Gelugpa school, though I may be wrong about this. As I understand the shentong position, the Gelukpa held that shentong is basically positivistic. ( 20040302 10:04, 22 April 2006 (UTC))
Another problem line is The Jonangpa interpreted Shentong to imply that there is a value in inaction and non-striving, which is associated with the teachings of medieval Chan Buddhism in China (which also gave rise to Zen Buddhism in Japan). which I think is completely incorrect. -- rudy 16:23, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
The Shentong article is pretty good too, if you'd like to consult that. Sylvain1972 13:21, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
This association with Chinese Buddhism tainted the Jonangpa in the eyes of the Gelugpa who considered the true teachings to derive from the Indian saints, particularly Atisha. An additional motivation in criticizing the Jonangpa sect as Chan-followers was that it enabled the Gelugpa to lay claim to the high moral ground previously held only by the rival Nyingmapa sect who were proud of their ancient and unsullied transmission from the Indian saints (and being sullied by later transmissions as were the Sakyapa, Kagyupa, and Gelugpa).
This badly needs references. It certainly appears to be POV, in that I doubt the Gelugpa agree with it as it stands. As mentioned above, the Jonangpa value in inaction and non-striving certainly would be rejected by the Geluk, without anything else being needed. What reasons were given by the Geluk? They are renowned for using academic arguments to justify their positions - is there any record of these? ( 20040302 20:11, 9 May 2006 (UTC))
I think this could use some clearing up. If the Jonang lineage claims to be an independent, fifth school, and Khalkha Jetsun Dampa is the head, how can he also be head of the Gelug lineage in Mongolia, as the current wiki article on him states? Sylvain1972 21:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
The
Zhentong
annexure by the
Gelugpa directly yielded the flight of the Institution of the Dalai Lama and the
Himalayan
Diaspora.
Aum
Ah
Hung
Phet
Svaha
B9 hummingbird hovering (
talk •
contribs) 01:29, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
jo nang - Jonangpa. The lineage of masters of the Shentong School who were known by their monastery at Jomo Nang. They include Yumo Mikyö Dorje, the founder of the school, Tukje Tsöndrü, Dölpowa Sherab Gyaltsen and Taranatha [ry] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.75.200.77 ( talk) 22:11, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Hey Jayaguru-Shishya,
I understand some of your concerns about overlinking, but I find them confusing here.
I link things like Kagyupa to Kagyu + pa because Kagyupa is a redirect to Kagyu. No change in text, but a change in redirect. That's why Kagyupa appears as a single link - this is a feature of wikipedia. I look for redirects and fix them.
Also, rangtong and the philosophical terms I changed redirect to the pages I fixed their redirect to. The prasangika page appears not to address rangtong properly, but it is in fact rangtong. There's one book at the end of the page that mentions rangtong, I'll see if I can find more cites and work on that page.
As for stupa-vihara, neither term is familiar to the average reader even though they are English words and hence they deserve wikilinks. That's what wikilinks are for. If you want to just leave out that particular bit of text, okay, that's fine. Ogress smash! 17:14, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Jonang. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.people.freenet.de/gruschke.andreas/Jonang_paper_E.htmWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:29, 29 November 2017 (UTC)