This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Jon Brower Minnoch article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Jon Brower Minnoch has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() | A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
July 21, 2023. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that
Jon Brower Minnoch weighed twelve times his 110-pound (50 kg) wife? | |||||||||
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on September 10, 2021. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The conversions on this page are off. For example, 190cm is 6'2.88" (rounded up to 6'3") not 6'1". Minnoch was 185cm, (6'1"), which is what the centimetre figure should read. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.135.134.61 ( talk) 19:33, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
Wasn't Austen Powers badguy Fat Bastard hi based on him? User:-The Bold Guy--The Bold Guy- 13:08, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
151.151.98.237 ( talk) 18:54, 10 November 2008 (UTC) Why clutter the text with measurements in "stones"? Isn't this anachronistic? Are there people who are unfamiliar with both Kg AND Lbs?
Apart from the introduction, article doesn't mention anything more that 450kg. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tiredtime ( talk • contribs) 08:20, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Back in the 80's, the Guiness Book of Records used to have his weight recorded as 1800lbs (816kg), and only later changed it to "over 1400lbs" Kusanagi-sama ( talk) 17:14, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
I doubt it. Please provide a source or remove claim —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.231.62 ( talk) 06:46, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I have a very, very minor issue with one statement in this article and would really just like to know if someone could help clarify for me the Wiki policy regarding factually correct statements that could be considered somewhat ambiguous.
The statement is: "Transportation for Minnoch was extremely difficult. It took over a dozen firemen and rescue personnel, a specially modified stretcher, and a ferry boat to transport him to University of Washington Medical Center in Seattle."
The addition of the ferry to the list of the dramatic measures needed to transport him to Seattle could suggest to some the ferry was hired specifically for moving him, when in fact it is quite simply how more than 90% travel between the island and the mainland, as the 35 minute ferry ride is the fastest, easiest and cheapest means to do so. The only other option is a near two hour, 95 mile drive around Puget Sound to cross at the Tacoma Narrows Bridge. Thanks for your help! OneHappyHusky ( talk) 05:43, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
The succession box currently has "Heaviest person ever recorded 1941-1983" which seems misleading; he wasn't the heaviest person for all of his life. When did he become the heaviest person? Also, is there any source which indicates that either Francis John Lang (per Nadavzara741's recent edits) or Robert Earl Hughes (as previously shown) was the world's heaviest person up to the time Minnoch became the heaviest? That's not obvious from this article or from List of the heaviest people. Or should we consider doing without a succession box? NebY ( talk) 11:16, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
He was married at age 19 to Rian Nicole Porter of Edmond, Oklahoma. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lexidraperr ( talk • contribs) 16:11, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
At https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20190525222440AAdJXQa an editor admits having repeatedly edited the article to say "chubbiest" instead of "heaviest" and to having "edited his cause of death to chubbiness", which isn't even accurate. 47.139.45.69 ( talk) 22:40, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
His BMI at death is given as 105.3, neither verified or mentioned by the GBR source. Using the {{
BMI}}
template and the parameters {{BMI|cm = 185|lb = 798}} gives 105.8 as his BMI. Should this be replaced?--
Auric
talk 17:26, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
The article describes this as the largest documented weight loss ever, and cites a 2006 Guinness World Record for it. He was surpassed in 2017 by Khalid bin Mohsen Shaari. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nbeam ( talk • contribs) 21:40, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
References
The citation for him having the second largest weight loss in history is to the Guinness book of world records page which doesn't show any one else as having a larger one, where did this information come from? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.173.176.132 ( talk) 19:41, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
With his underlying condition of edema being incurable and difficult to treat, the decision was made to discontinue treatment...
This statement is unsourced, and is not supported by the current inline references. In fact, this source refers to a diagnosis of edema and congestive heart failure during his first pre-diet hospitalization, not his last, so I've removed it for now. I tried to find a source that gave an exact cause of death or a diagnosis for his final hospital stay, but couldn't find one. Matuko ( talk) 22:27, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
Minnoch 102.141.196.146 ( talk) 12:06, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
yes 158.162.208.90 ( talk) 13:22, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Vaticidalprophet ( talk · contribs) 14:08, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
This is certainly an interesting premise! Having said that, the article needs a fair amount of work. The first thing that stood out to me was the short length and suspicion of missing elements. To take a rather glaring example: Minnoch has a mugshot pictured, clarifying that he was arrested at 19 for burglary...but no arrests are mentioned in the article! There's evidently quite a bit missing about Minnoch's personal life, with only enough detail to raise further questions (e.g. the lack of clarity around his relationships and children, and complete absence of any mention of his parents/potential siblings/etc). If the sourcing exists for what we have, it should exist for more, even if it may be difficult to find considering it would overwhelmingly be pre-internet and not necessarily digitized. (If there's a mugshot, for instance, there's more about his arrest and why it happened -- some of it might not be usable in a BLP, but this is not a BLP.)
While this is the most significant issue with the article, and some work would need to be done on it before many further comments, there are a few other bullet points I have to note:
[S]uggesting a genetic cause for his conditionis far too big a claim to be made by that source -- obesity is complex and multifactorial, including obesity onset in childhood, and the sense in which it's 'genetic' is fairly complicated. Probably we shouldn't speculate on why he was fat at all, except to note the very obvious fact he lost substantial amounts of weight when eating less.
80% fatshould be clarified as having a body fat percentage of 80%, to avoid ambiguity. (For...juxtaposition purposes, it also might be good to rearrange this such that his claims about water retention immediately follow this sentence.)
I'll be able to make more comments as the article is expanded. Vaticidal prophet 14:08, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
[b]ecause a police booking photograph can imply that the person depicted was charged with or convicted of a specific crimeis still relevant, so I'd at least like to see some kind of in-text confirmation. Aside from that, I'm happy with the structural changes and will launch into a prose and sourcing review soon. Vaticidal prophet 14:06, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
His first wife...--Fixed
'WA' shouldn't be used for 'Washington'...--Fixed
[S]uggesting a genetic cause for his condition--Fixed
80% fat--Fixed
The fair use picture is justifiable...--Fixed Dr. Swag Lord ( talk) 22:15, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
The article is relatively short, so my comments shouldn't be too much of a wall of text.
Lead:
died of cardiac arrestThis isn't a great wording, given cardiac arrest is, technically, what death is. The formal cause of death in the body is fine, but in the lead this should just be "died in September 1983".
Body:
Minnoch was born in 1941 in Seattle, Washington, to John Minnoch, a machinist, and June ( née Brower), a nurse and telephone operatorfits the more conventional format for biographies (then revise the rest of the paragraph from there).
He had a body fat percentage of about 80%, although he said water retention was the primary cause of his obesity. I don't have access to this source to check (Google Books previews vary by location, which is why it's not ideal to cite them, though this is within author discretion), but I also wonder if it explicitly says this was confirmed (and how), or if it was a speculative estimate.
He fathered two sons, named John and Jasonflows better as just "two sons, John and Jason", but more concerningly, I can't verify this from the cited source. I believe some other sources gave their names, so this might just be a misreferencing?
Minnoch consented to his wife's pleas to enter a hospitalIs "consented to" the right word here, vs. something more natural like "agreed with" or "listened to"?
Minnoch's doctors were unsure how he got so largeis a weird line, and not fully in agreement with the source, which (important detail) asks why rather than how. This line can probably be struck.
Minnoch soon started to gain weight againProbably worth offsetting with something like 'nonetheless' or 'despite this'. You also use his surname quite heavily in this paragraph, which feels kind of like an attempt at 'elegant variation' that doesn't quite work out; it's usually not ambiguous who's being referred to.
He was readmitted to the hospital just over a year later in October 1981, after his weight increased to 952 lb (432 kg; 68 st). Minnoch managed to gain 200 lb (91 kg; 14 st) in just seven days.I think this might work better with a semicolon than a full stop, because while they're naturally separate sentences, they're all on the same note. (Also, see prior note on surname repetition.)
According to his death certificate, Minnoch's immediate cause of death was cardiac arrest with respiratory failure and restrictive lung disease/obesity as contributing factorsThis is kind of a run-on sentence (should have a comma before the "with respiratory failure etc" clause), and the slash for "restrictive lung disease/obesity" feels awkward. (It might technically be put as something like "respiratory failure and restrictive lung disease, caused by obesity".
The source issues are the biggest ones of these, but not insurmountable ones. The rest are mostly grammatical/prose. Vaticidal prophet 08:35, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
died of cardiac arrest--fixed
He had a body fat percentage of about 80%, although he said water retention was the primary cause of his obesity--mmmh, this seems a bit SYNTH-y. I replaced the 80% fat source with a slightly better one, which reads: "...was estimated to be over 1,400 pounds, and 80 percent of that was fat."
He fathered two sons, named John and Jason--fixed (the visual editor is a bit glitchy and wouldn't want to insert the correct ref so I switched to source mode)
Minnoch's doctors were unsure how he got so large--fixed
Minnoch soon started to gain weight again--fixed
He was readmitted to the hospital just over a year later in October 1981, after his weight increased to 952 lb (432 kg; 68 st). Minnoch managed to gain 200 lb (91 kg; 14 st) in just seven days.--fixed
According to his death certificate, Minnoch's immediate cause of death was cardiac arrest with respiratory failure and restrictive lung disease/obesity as contributing factors--re-wrote Dr. Swag Lord ( talk) 00:03, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
Just to let someone know, the word “grandfather” in Personal Life is misspelled without the “f”! Sincerely, Someone who got bored and decided on a whim to look up “heaviest person ever” on Google. 162.217.189.6 ( talk) 06:52, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
Theleekycauldron (
talk) 07:55, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d ( talk). Self-nominated at 09:48, 30 June 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Jon Brower Minnoch; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
---|
|
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
---|
|
QPQ: - Not done
Overall:
@
Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d: Good article. Needs QPQ.
Onegreatjoke (
talk) 21:16, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
It would likely be humanly implausible to gain that much weight over the course of a week. It takes 3500 calories to gain a single pound; 200 pounds would be 700,000 calories. That's approximately eating 30 large pizzas a day. I'm not sure a newspaper blurb supports that. PrimordialChowder ( talk) 03:22, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
The entry describes Minnoch as "driving a water taxi", but the article that claim cites describes him as owning or driving a taxi *cab*, as do several other of the articles. I live on Bainbridge Island so I could look into this easily at our local history museum. tobych ( talk) 03:03, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
daniel är världen tjockaste man!!!
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Jon Brower Minnoch article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Jon Brower Minnoch has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() | A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
July 21, 2023. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that
Jon Brower Minnoch weighed twelve times his 110-pound (50 kg) wife? | |||||||||
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on September 10, 2021. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The conversions on this page are off. For example, 190cm is 6'2.88" (rounded up to 6'3") not 6'1". Minnoch was 185cm, (6'1"), which is what the centimetre figure should read. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.135.134.61 ( talk) 19:33, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
Wasn't Austen Powers badguy Fat Bastard hi based on him? User:-The Bold Guy--The Bold Guy- 13:08, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
151.151.98.237 ( talk) 18:54, 10 November 2008 (UTC) Why clutter the text with measurements in "stones"? Isn't this anachronistic? Are there people who are unfamiliar with both Kg AND Lbs?
Apart from the introduction, article doesn't mention anything more that 450kg. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tiredtime ( talk • contribs) 08:20, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Back in the 80's, the Guiness Book of Records used to have his weight recorded as 1800lbs (816kg), and only later changed it to "over 1400lbs" Kusanagi-sama ( talk) 17:14, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
I doubt it. Please provide a source or remove claim —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.231.62 ( talk) 06:46, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I have a very, very minor issue with one statement in this article and would really just like to know if someone could help clarify for me the Wiki policy regarding factually correct statements that could be considered somewhat ambiguous.
The statement is: "Transportation for Minnoch was extremely difficult. It took over a dozen firemen and rescue personnel, a specially modified stretcher, and a ferry boat to transport him to University of Washington Medical Center in Seattle."
The addition of the ferry to the list of the dramatic measures needed to transport him to Seattle could suggest to some the ferry was hired specifically for moving him, when in fact it is quite simply how more than 90% travel between the island and the mainland, as the 35 minute ferry ride is the fastest, easiest and cheapest means to do so. The only other option is a near two hour, 95 mile drive around Puget Sound to cross at the Tacoma Narrows Bridge. Thanks for your help! OneHappyHusky ( talk) 05:43, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
The succession box currently has "Heaviest person ever recorded 1941-1983" which seems misleading; he wasn't the heaviest person for all of his life. When did he become the heaviest person? Also, is there any source which indicates that either Francis John Lang (per Nadavzara741's recent edits) or Robert Earl Hughes (as previously shown) was the world's heaviest person up to the time Minnoch became the heaviest? That's not obvious from this article or from List of the heaviest people. Or should we consider doing without a succession box? NebY ( talk) 11:16, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
He was married at age 19 to Rian Nicole Porter of Edmond, Oklahoma. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lexidraperr ( talk • contribs) 16:11, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
At https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20190525222440AAdJXQa an editor admits having repeatedly edited the article to say "chubbiest" instead of "heaviest" and to having "edited his cause of death to chubbiness", which isn't even accurate. 47.139.45.69 ( talk) 22:40, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
His BMI at death is given as 105.3, neither verified or mentioned by the GBR source. Using the {{
BMI}}
template and the parameters {{BMI|cm = 185|lb = 798}} gives 105.8 as his BMI. Should this be replaced?--
Auric
talk 17:26, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
The article describes this as the largest documented weight loss ever, and cites a 2006 Guinness World Record for it. He was surpassed in 2017 by Khalid bin Mohsen Shaari. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nbeam ( talk • contribs) 21:40, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
References
The citation for him having the second largest weight loss in history is to the Guinness book of world records page which doesn't show any one else as having a larger one, where did this information come from? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.173.176.132 ( talk) 19:41, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
With his underlying condition of edema being incurable and difficult to treat, the decision was made to discontinue treatment...
This statement is unsourced, and is not supported by the current inline references. In fact, this source refers to a diagnosis of edema and congestive heart failure during his first pre-diet hospitalization, not his last, so I've removed it for now. I tried to find a source that gave an exact cause of death or a diagnosis for his final hospital stay, but couldn't find one. Matuko ( talk) 22:27, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
Minnoch 102.141.196.146 ( talk) 12:06, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
yes 158.162.208.90 ( talk) 13:22, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Vaticidalprophet ( talk · contribs) 14:08, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
This is certainly an interesting premise! Having said that, the article needs a fair amount of work. The first thing that stood out to me was the short length and suspicion of missing elements. To take a rather glaring example: Minnoch has a mugshot pictured, clarifying that he was arrested at 19 for burglary...but no arrests are mentioned in the article! There's evidently quite a bit missing about Minnoch's personal life, with only enough detail to raise further questions (e.g. the lack of clarity around his relationships and children, and complete absence of any mention of his parents/potential siblings/etc). If the sourcing exists for what we have, it should exist for more, even if it may be difficult to find considering it would overwhelmingly be pre-internet and not necessarily digitized. (If there's a mugshot, for instance, there's more about his arrest and why it happened -- some of it might not be usable in a BLP, but this is not a BLP.)
While this is the most significant issue with the article, and some work would need to be done on it before many further comments, there are a few other bullet points I have to note:
[S]uggesting a genetic cause for his conditionis far too big a claim to be made by that source -- obesity is complex and multifactorial, including obesity onset in childhood, and the sense in which it's 'genetic' is fairly complicated. Probably we shouldn't speculate on why he was fat at all, except to note the very obvious fact he lost substantial amounts of weight when eating less.
80% fatshould be clarified as having a body fat percentage of 80%, to avoid ambiguity. (For...juxtaposition purposes, it also might be good to rearrange this such that his claims about water retention immediately follow this sentence.)
I'll be able to make more comments as the article is expanded. Vaticidal prophet 14:08, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
[b]ecause a police booking photograph can imply that the person depicted was charged with or convicted of a specific crimeis still relevant, so I'd at least like to see some kind of in-text confirmation. Aside from that, I'm happy with the structural changes and will launch into a prose and sourcing review soon. Vaticidal prophet 14:06, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
His first wife...--Fixed
'WA' shouldn't be used for 'Washington'...--Fixed
[S]uggesting a genetic cause for his condition--Fixed
80% fat--Fixed
The fair use picture is justifiable...--Fixed Dr. Swag Lord ( talk) 22:15, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
The article is relatively short, so my comments shouldn't be too much of a wall of text.
Lead:
died of cardiac arrestThis isn't a great wording, given cardiac arrest is, technically, what death is. The formal cause of death in the body is fine, but in the lead this should just be "died in September 1983".
Body:
Minnoch was born in 1941 in Seattle, Washington, to John Minnoch, a machinist, and June ( née Brower), a nurse and telephone operatorfits the more conventional format for biographies (then revise the rest of the paragraph from there).
He had a body fat percentage of about 80%, although he said water retention was the primary cause of his obesity. I don't have access to this source to check (Google Books previews vary by location, which is why it's not ideal to cite them, though this is within author discretion), but I also wonder if it explicitly says this was confirmed (and how), or if it was a speculative estimate.
He fathered two sons, named John and Jasonflows better as just "two sons, John and Jason", but more concerningly, I can't verify this from the cited source. I believe some other sources gave their names, so this might just be a misreferencing?
Minnoch consented to his wife's pleas to enter a hospitalIs "consented to" the right word here, vs. something more natural like "agreed with" or "listened to"?
Minnoch's doctors were unsure how he got so largeis a weird line, and not fully in agreement with the source, which (important detail) asks why rather than how. This line can probably be struck.
Minnoch soon started to gain weight againProbably worth offsetting with something like 'nonetheless' or 'despite this'. You also use his surname quite heavily in this paragraph, which feels kind of like an attempt at 'elegant variation' that doesn't quite work out; it's usually not ambiguous who's being referred to.
He was readmitted to the hospital just over a year later in October 1981, after his weight increased to 952 lb (432 kg; 68 st). Minnoch managed to gain 200 lb (91 kg; 14 st) in just seven days.I think this might work better with a semicolon than a full stop, because while they're naturally separate sentences, they're all on the same note. (Also, see prior note on surname repetition.)
According to his death certificate, Minnoch's immediate cause of death was cardiac arrest with respiratory failure and restrictive lung disease/obesity as contributing factorsThis is kind of a run-on sentence (should have a comma before the "with respiratory failure etc" clause), and the slash for "restrictive lung disease/obesity" feels awkward. (It might technically be put as something like "respiratory failure and restrictive lung disease, caused by obesity".
The source issues are the biggest ones of these, but not insurmountable ones. The rest are mostly grammatical/prose. Vaticidal prophet 08:35, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
died of cardiac arrest--fixed
He had a body fat percentage of about 80%, although he said water retention was the primary cause of his obesity--mmmh, this seems a bit SYNTH-y. I replaced the 80% fat source with a slightly better one, which reads: "...was estimated to be over 1,400 pounds, and 80 percent of that was fat."
He fathered two sons, named John and Jason--fixed (the visual editor is a bit glitchy and wouldn't want to insert the correct ref so I switched to source mode)
Minnoch's doctors were unsure how he got so large--fixed
Minnoch soon started to gain weight again--fixed
He was readmitted to the hospital just over a year later in October 1981, after his weight increased to 952 lb (432 kg; 68 st). Minnoch managed to gain 200 lb (91 kg; 14 st) in just seven days.--fixed
According to his death certificate, Minnoch's immediate cause of death was cardiac arrest with respiratory failure and restrictive lung disease/obesity as contributing factors--re-wrote Dr. Swag Lord ( talk) 00:03, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
Just to let someone know, the word “grandfather” in Personal Life is misspelled without the “f”! Sincerely, Someone who got bored and decided on a whim to look up “heaviest person ever” on Google. 162.217.189.6 ( talk) 06:52, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
Theleekycauldron (
talk) 07:55, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d ( talk). Self-nominated at 09:48, 30 June 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Jon Brower Minnoch; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
---|
|
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
---|
|
QPQ: - Not done
Overall:
@
Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d: Good article. Needs QPQ.
Onegreatjoke (
talk) 21:16, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
It would likely be humanly implausible to gain that much weight over the course of a week. It takes 3500 calories to gain a single pound; 200 pounds would be 700,000 calories. That's approximately eating 30 large pizzas a day. I'm not sure a newspaper blurb supports that. PrimordialChowder ( talk) 03:22, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
The entry describes Minnoch as "driving a water taxi", but the article that claim cites describes him as owning or driving a taxi *cab*, as do several other of the articles. I live on Bainbridge Island so I could look into this easily at our local history museum. tobych ( talk) 03:03, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
daniel är världen tjockaste man!!!