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I met Johnny Lee Clary after doing research on hate groups in the US for college. I can tell you personally he is a fake. I am a Christian. Most Christian pastors I know have at least a Masters degree. Where did this guy go to seminary? He did not. This whole thing was a publicity thing for his church to raise money. Why else would they do it? As far as the big conversion. He still hated! He hated Muslims any one who disagreed with him ect. He even had the balls to say that if you disagree with him you are the KKK. In other words you are doomed to hell. The guy was nothing but a redneck, good ole boy looking to kick anyone’s behind who disagreed with him. He is a fake. Look who he hung around with and worked for. Jimmy Swaggart! Another fake getting rich in the name of Christ. That is what Johnny wanted to be. He was more about the money than the religion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.53.82 ( talk) 15:59, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
The White Knights are responsible for bombings, murders, and countless other crimes against human beings in the name of hate. Today The White Knights are considered by many as the real Ku Klux Klan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ed Poor ( talk • contribs)
Thanks for the help. I am in the procees of putting a draft together for inclusion on the KKK article, see KKK talk. Potters house 16:39, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm having a problem with your resources. One is just a link to a church, that's not really a resource for THIS page. It could however be an external link. A resource is "a book, film, television show, etc. which serves to VERIFY the contents of the page". So unless the church itself has a page dedicated to "Johnny Lee Clary" this isn't a resource.
On the same vein, there are many statements in this bio that don't cite any source for what would be considered fairly outrageous statements. For example, "Leader of the White Knights...." if true should be able to be cited from at least a newspaper article or something of that sort. Wjhonson 01:42, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I noticed you requested feedback, so here we go...I didn't want to actually edit it since it's a draft that I figured you were saving.
You should probably spell out Ku Klux Klan the first time it's mentioned in the article (even if it may seem like common knowledge, it isn't readily apparent what your abbreviation is referring to. You also might want to wikify that, since it's a very relevant article.
You also might want to take a look at the Manual of Style since the formatting is a little bit weird. You should usually have the defining paragraph before the table of contents and without a double header. You will also want to boldify the title subject in the first sentence.
In fact the whole thing could be wikified a bit more, but I suppose that can come later.
Are you asking also about copy-editing? In "Upbringing", "He'd" should be changed, as that makes no sense. And actually there are a good number of minor grammar errors which should be cleaned up.
You may want to think about breaking it up into paragraphs that are a little bit easier to digest, too.
I'm sorry for criticizing so much....I'm only doing it in the spirit of creating a good article! It's not a bad article at all, but could use some improvement. Let me know if I can help you further with it. — K e akealani • talk• contribs• 08:02, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm glad to see this article restored to the main namespace, and I hope the improvements we've all made to it will justify its continued life at Wikipedia.
Clary resurrected himself from a lifetime of hate and misery, and this should be documented in the world's free encyclopedia as an example of love overcoming hate. -- Uncle Ed 17:41, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I have NO problem with this article existing. I will let others decide notability, ect. I DO have a BIG problem with UNSOURCED material and original research. I going to HACK away at UNSOURCED/original material/commentary/ect. If the material can be SOURCED by RELIABLE (no blogs, not ones own web site, ect.) sources, fine. Add it back and provide REFERENCES. Thanks!!
Oh and I am not Johnny I am Nick Sayers Potters house 18:36, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I know the intro was shortened but it is too vague. It is like saying, "Elvis, singers actor, was famous." There is more to it than that and the reason for his notability is the he left the KKK became a Christian and also was a wrestler. Written in such stub forms makes it too vague. People will want to know why this guy is notable, i.e. one of the main reasons the article was deleted before. Potters house 05:20, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I've edited the family childhood and youth section to align more appropriately with the types of sources we have and to cut down on a lot of the unencylopedic content. Since I've made a pretty drastic change and cut out quite a bit I wanted to explain my thinking on this. I'm intending doing more to the rest of the article, so I wanted to get feedback first. The problem with a lot of the sourcing in the article is that the sources themselves are interviews - basically Clary's story in his own words (and much of the content is verbatim from those interviews). There's been no fact checking and on it. I don't think that's as important as it might be in other articles, because I think the notability (at least around the non-pro wrestling bits) are that he has a story that others find compelling. The literal truth of it isn't what makes it notable, the fact that other's want to hear it is what makes it notable. Even so, Wikipedia shouldn't be telling the story as though it had been fact checked. We need to make it clear it's Clary's story, and the article certainly shouldn't be the equivalent of a repeat of that story. An encylopedic biography should give a skeleton outline of the most pertinent aspects of the subjects life and cover the subjects impact on the world, if people want to hear the Clary story they can go to his website. -- Siobhan Hansa 20:18, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
That sounds good. I was hoping others would help because it is a difficult article to write because of the autobiographical refs. Potters house 06:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Here's a clip of the first page of finds on Newsbank. The total of finds is 127, although quite a number of articles are duplicates under different headers (check the word count, usually similar word count = same article). But even discounting duplicates there is no question in my mind that this person has received extensive press coverage.
Results: 1 - 10 of 127 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 | Next
Edit Search Show First Paragraph
1. State, The (Columbia, SC) - September 5, 1993 length: 1226 words
2. The San Diego Union-Tribune - August 15, 1993 length: 1207 words
3. Tulsa World - September 26, 1991 length: 833 words
4. Rocky Mountain News (CO) - August 27, 1993 length: 1278 words
5. Tulsa World - August 15, 1993 length: 1132 words
6. Miami Herald, The (FL) - August 15, 1993 length: 1079 words
7. Townsville Bulletin (Australia) - July 20, 2002 length: 1506 words
8. Albert & Logan News (Brisbane, Australia) - July 20, 2001 length: 532 words
9. Charlotte Observer, The (NC) - September 30, 2005 length: 1028 words
10. Advertiser, The (Adelaide, Australia) - April 7, 2001 length: 558 words
~ trialsanderrors 21:48, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
This one should be an acceptable source as well: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20020616/ai_n12466811 Not a lot of new details, however. -- Antaeus Feldspar 01:18, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
References
OK I've hacked away at the rest of the article and tried to do what I did with the Childhood, family and youth bit. Cuts things down a lot but, I think, is more appropriate for a biography that is sourced entirely from the subject's own words. I do think we should try and find independent sources for teh TV appearances. Probably a lot harder since I believe they were mainly before 1996 and so online resources won't be much good. anyone have a stack of 20 year old TV guides lying around? :-) Also, I don't like the header for the section I've created, but couldn't come up with anything better tonight. -- Siobhan Hansa 00:16, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm reverting User:MyNameIsNotBob's removals because:
Feel free to disagree. -- Siobhan Hansa 02:35, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Has anyone actually took the time to check out his website? It's full blantant hate and lies. Go look at the section about Marilyn Manson, 99.8% of that information is MADE-UP! Isn't lying a sin? Pssh...and he calls himself a good Christian. *rolls eyes* — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.151.207.114 ( talk • contribs) 18:00, September 14, 2006 (UTC)
His website is gone. Hijacked or bought for splog. I just checked the link for a dmoz listing. I hope you keep the information up. All kinds of stories should be told, not just the ones with fluffy bunnies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.93.23.8 ( talk) 00:34, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
I deleted the statement that Clary's views on Cobain were unfounded:
"however Clary's statements have little evidence to be justified with"
It is widly known that Cobain Commited Suicide and sang about suicide (e.g. Nirvana's fourth album In Utero was originally titled "I hate myself and I want to die; the lyrics "umbilical noose" in Heart Shaped Box etc.) Clary himself put a gun to his head so he is a hypocrite.
The article has been written By Pastor Joe Schimmel, not Clary. Many statements in the article are easily found elsewhere on the web, even amoungs pro Cobain sites. If this statement is to be re-posted, the author must explain exactly where the evidence is lacking. Potters house 16:16, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
He came and spoke to all the year 10s at my school yeserday, and he seems very nice. Also, did you know he wears the star of david on a necklace? Is that notable? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.209.147.218 ( talk) 05:14, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Nope-most bible-reading Christians support Judaism/Israel/Zionism... -- 115.186.137.193 ( talk) 17:15, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
Clary is a liar. If he really did all the stuff that he claims he did then why is he not in jail? Clary was never in jail that I know of. He made up that stuff about Marylinn Manson. I am no fan either of Manson but it is stupid to make up lies to get people not to listen to him. Clary's stories are also very questionable. He always talks about how one man brought down the Klan. He tells a story of Wade Watts being threatened by Clary. Clary and a group of Klansmen meet him in a diner. Clary says whatever you do to that piece of chicken we are going to do to you. Watts kisses the chicken and everybody laughed.
Now this is not the 1960's when this happened. So no one called the police? Why did Mr. toughguy pro-wrestler take a group of guys to go out against one old black man? He means to tell us that a group of guys who are going to do someone harm suddenly have a change of heart because he kisses a piece of chicken?
Clary also seems to have a problem with something called responsibility. Clary blames the Klan for everything he did. David Duke the then leader of the Klan spoke of non-violence. Yet Clary says it is the Klans fault!
The question also arises of Clary's sanity. I mean the guy stuck a gun to his head. He was going to kill himself. What other mental problems does this guy have?
What is this bull about Clary being a Klansman? Clary was never really in the KKK. He was an actor on talk shows. PERIOD! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.54.4 ( talk) 20:32, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Johnny Lee Clary article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 1 May 2006 (UTC). The result of the discussion was delete. |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 30 August 2006 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
I met Johnny Lee Clary after doing research on hate groups in the US for college. I can tell you personally he is a fake. I am a Christian. Most Christian pastors I know have at least a Masters degree. Where did this guy go to seminary? He did not. This whole thing was a publicity thing for his church to raise money. Why else would they do it? As far as the big conversion. He still hated! He hated Muslims any one who disagreed with him ect. He even had the balls to say that if you disagree with him you are the KKK. In other words you are doomed to hell. The guy was nothing but a redneck, good ole boy looking to kick anyone’s behind who disagreed with him. He is a fake. Look who he hung around with and worked for. Jimmy Swaggart! Another fake getting rich in the name of Christ. That is what Johnny wanted to be. He was more about the money than the religion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.53.82 ( talk) 15:59, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
The White Knights are responsible for bombings, murders, and countless other crimes against human beings in the name of hate. Today The White Knights are considered by many as the real Ku Klux Klan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ed Poor ( talk • contribs)
Thanks for the help. I am in the procees of putting a draft together for inclusion on the KKK article, see KKK talk. Potters house 16:39, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm having a problem with your resources. One is just a link to a church, that's not really a resource for THIS page. It could however be an external link. A resource is "a book, film, television show, etc. which serves to VERIFY the contents of the page". So unless the church itself has a page dedicated to "Johnny Lee Clary" this isn't a resource.
On the same vein, there are many statements in this bio that don't cite any source for what would be considered fairly outrageous statements. For example, "Leader of the White Knights...." if true should be able to be cited from at least a newspaper article or something of that sort. Wjhonson 01:42, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I noticed you requested feedback, so here we go...I didn't want to actually edit it since it's a draft that I figured you were saving.
You should probably spell out Ku Klux Klan the first time it's mentioned in the article (even if it may seem like common knowledge, it isn't readily apparent what your abbreviation is referring to. You also might want to wikify that, since it's a very relevant article.
You also might want to take a look at the Manual of Style since the formatting is a little bit weird. You should usually have the defining paragraph before the table of contents and without a double header. You will also want to boldify the title subject in the first sentence.
In fact the whole thing could be wikified a bit more, but I suppose that can come later.
Are you asking also about copy-editing? In "Upbringing", "He'd" should be changed, as that makes no sense. And actually there are a good number of minor grammar errors which should be cleaned up.
You may want to think about breaking it up into paragraphs that are a little bit easier to digest, too.
I'm sorry for criticizing so much....I'm only doing it in the spirit of creating a good article! It's not a bad article at all, but could use some improvement. Let me know if I can help you further with it. — K e akealani • talk• contribs• 08:02, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm glad to see this article restored to the main namespace, and I hope the improvements we've all made to it will justify its continued life at Wikipedia.
Clary resurrected himself from a lifetime of hate and misery, and this should be documented in the world's free encyclopedia as an example of love overcoming hate. -- Uncle Ed 17:41, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I have NO problem with this article existing. I will let others decide notability, ect. I DO have a BIG problem with UNSOURCED material and original research. I going to HACK away at UNSOURCED/original material/commentary/ect. If the material can be SOURCED by RELIABLE (no blogs, not ones own web site, ect.) sources, fine. Add it back and provide REFERENCES. Thanks!!
Oh and I am not Johnny I am Nick Sayers Potters house 18:36, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I know the intro was shortened but it is too vague. It is like saying, "Elvis, singers actor, was famous." There is more to it than that and the reason for his notability is the he left the KKK became a Christian and also was a wrestler. Written in such stub forms makes it too vague. People will want to know why this guy is notable, i.e. one of the main reasons the article was deleted before. Potters house 05:20, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I've edited the family childhood and youth section to align more appropriately with the types of sources we have and to cut down on a lot of the unencylopedic content. Since I've made a pretty drastic change and cut out quite a bit I wanted to explain my thinking on this. I'm intending doing more to the rest of the article, so I wanted to get feedback first. The problem with a lot of the sourcing in the article is that the sources themselves are interviews - basically Clary's story in his own words (and much of the content is verbatim from those interviews). There's been no fact checking and on it. I don't think that's as important as it might be in other articles, because I think the notability (at least around the non-pro wrestling bits) are that he has a story that others find compelling. The literal truth of it isn't what makes it notable, the fact that other's want to hear it is what makes it notable. Even so, Wikipedia shouldn't be telling the story as though it had been fact checked. We need to make it clear it's Clary's story, and the article certainly shouldn't be the equivalent of a repeat of that story. An encylopedic biography should give a skeleton outline of the most pertinent aspects of the subjects life and cover the subjects impact on the world, if people want to hear the Clary story they can go to his website. -- Siobhan Hansa 20:18, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
That sounds good. I was hoping others would help because it is a difficult article to write because of the autobiographical refs. Potters house 06:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Here's a clip of the first page of finds on Newsbank. The total of finds is 127, although quite a number of articles are duplicates under different headers (check the word count, usually similar word count = same article). But even discounting duplicates there is no question in my mind that this person has received extensive press coverage.
Results: 1 - 10 of 127 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 | Next
Edit Search Show First Paragraph
1. State, The (Columbia, SC) - September 5, 1993 length: 1226 words
2. The San Diego Union-Tribune - August 15, 1993 length: 1207 words
3. Tulsa World - September 26, 1991 length: 833 words
4. Rocky Mountain News (CO) - August 27, 1993 length: 1278 words
5. Tulsa World - August 15, 1993 length: 1132 words
6. Miami Herald, The (FL) - August 15, 1993 length: 1079 words
7. Townsville Bulletin (Australia) - July 20, 2002 length: 1506 words
8. Albert & Logan News (Brisbane, Australia) - July 20, 2001 length: 532 words
9. Charlotte Observer, The (NC) - September 30, 2005 length: 1028 words
10. Advertiser, The (Adelaide, Australia) - April 7, 2001 length: 558 words
~ trialsanderrors 21:48, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
This one should be an acceptable source as well: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20020616/ai_n12466811 Not a lot of new details, however. -- Antaeus Feldspar 01:18, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
References
OK I've hacked away at the rest of the article and tried to do what I did with the Childhood, family and youth bit. Cuts things down a lot but, I think, is more appropriate for a biography that is sourced entirely from the subject's own words. I do think we should try and find independent sources for teh TV appearances. Probably a lot harder since I believe they were mainly before 1996 and so online resources won't be much good. anyone have a stack of 20 year old TV guides lying around? :-) Also, I don't like the header for the section I've created, but couldn't come up with anything better tonight. -- Siobhan Hansa 00:16, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm reverting User:MyNameIsNotBob's removals because:
Feel free to disagree. -- Siobhan Hansa 02:35, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Has anyone actually took the time to check out his website? It's full blantant hate and lies. Go look at the section about Marilyn Manson, 99.8% of that information is MADE-UP! Isn't lying a sin? Pssh...and he calls himself a good Christian. *rolls eyes* — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.151.207.114 ( talk • contribs) 18:00, September 14, 2006 (UTC)
His website is gone. Hijacked or bought for splog. I just checked the link for a dmoz listing. I hope you keep the information up. All kinds of stories should be told, not just the ones with fluffy bunnies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.93.23.8 ( talk) 00:34, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
I deleted the statement that Clary's views on Cobain were unfounded:
"however Clary's statements have little evidence to be justified with"
It is widly known that Cobain Commited Suicide and sang about suicide (e.g. Nirvana's fourth album In Utero was originally titled "I hate myself and I want to die; the lyrics "umbilical noose" in Heart Shaped Box etc.) Clary himself put a gun to his head so he is a hypocrite.
The article has been written By Pastor Joe Schimmel, not Clary. Many statements in the article are easily found elsewhere on the web, even amoungs pro Cobain sites. If this statement is to be re-posted, the author must explain exactly where the evidence is lacking. Potters house 16:16, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
He came and spoke to all the year 10s at my school yeserday, and he seems very nice. Also, did you know he wears the star of david on a necklace? Is that notable? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.209.147.218 ( talk) 05:14, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Nope-most bible-reading Christians support Judaism/Israel/Zionism... -- 115.186.137.193 ( talk) 17:15, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
Clary is a liar. If he really did all the stuff that he claims he did then why is he not in jail? Clary was never in jail that I know of. He made up that stuff about Marylinn Manson. I am no fan either of Manson but it is stupid to make up lies to get people not to listen to him. Clary's stories are also very questionable. He always talks about how one man brought down the Klan. He tells a story of Wade Watts being threatened by Clary. Clary and a group of Klansmen meet him in a diner. Clary says whatever you do to that piece of chicken we are going to do to you. Watts kisses the chicken and everybody laughed.
Now this is not the 1960's when this happened. So no one called the police? Why did Mr. toughguy pro-wrestler take a group of guys to go out against one old black man? He means to tell us that a group of guys who are going to do someone harm suddenly have a change of heart because he kisses a piece of chicken?
Clary also seems to have a problem with something called responsibility. Clary blames the Klan for everything he did. David Duke the then leader of the Klan spoke of non-violence. Yet Clary says it is the Klans fault!
The question also arises of Clary's sanity. I mean the guy stuck a gun to his head. He was going to kill himself. What other mental problems does this guy have?
What is this bull about Clary being a Klansman? Clary was never really in the KKK. He was an actor on talk shows. PERIOD! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.54.4 ( talk) 20:32, 25 October 2010 (UTC)