A fact from John T. Newton appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 30 April 2021 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that Captain John T. Newton commanded
USS Missouri on the first crossing of the Atlantic by an American steam-powered warship, and was later
court-martialed after an accidental fire sank the ship?
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
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There is an asserted portrait of the subject
on this genealogy website, but I can not discern its origins or copyright status.
BD2412T 17:47, 28 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Nantes, France
According to his
Find-a-Grave listing, Newton was "educated at Nantes, France", but I have not yet found corroboration of that claim.
BD2412T 21:46, 30 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Did you know nomination
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by
MeegsC (
talk) 09:59, 26 April 2021 (UTC)reply
... that after commanding
USS Missouri on the first steam-powered crossing of the Atlantic, Captain John T. Newton was
court-martialed after a crewman accidentally started a fire that destroyed the ship? Source: "The trial of Capt. John T. Newton, in which the Naval Court Martial now assembled in this city have been engaged for the last three weeks, terminated yesterday. ... One of our most distinguished and gallant officers has been arraigned on the charge of negligence in the loss of that splendid steamship, the Missouri, which was destroyed by fire at Gibraltar in August, 1843, and which he commanded."
New York Daily Herald, October 16, 1844
This is a great rescue job from
the AfD. I hope and expect this will pass, but there are a couple of things to address. Review follows:
Newness: Technically a fail but
IAR. At the time this was nominated, (06:59, 5 April) the article was 17,408 bytes (raw), 6756 characters (1099 words) readable. Seven days earlier was 29 March. The 5x expansion started on 26 March either here or here depending on which is the relevant metric. It's clearly one continued expansion by the same editors, though, so I trust that there's enough leeway to pass this.
Length (it was still marked as a stub on the talk page but I've graded it C for now. Could be B); sourcing (I don't have access many but they look good); NPV ; plagiarism/copyvios:
Hook sourcing: It is interesting but I need clarification on the sourcing. The source given here mentions the court martial, but not the "first steam-powered crossing of the Atlantic". The sentence in the article has two references. One is written by Newton himself and also doesn't mention this. I don't have access to the other, or the one at the end of the paragraph. Can you confirm with a quotation that one of them covers that claim? Looking at
USS Missouri (1841) it doesn't give an inline citation but mentions using free text from
this page, which says it was the first "power crossing of the Atlantic by an American steam warship" (my emphasis). That's narrower, and would need to be reflected both in the article and (if mentioned) in the hook if there were earlier non-American or non-warship crossings.
Hook interesting:
Hook length: The hook is either 200 or 201 characters, depending if the space between the ellipsis and "that" counts. That puts it right on, or just over, the limit. I'd propose shorter alts, which would rely on the same sourcing once provided. I prefer the first as it's crisper, but if you want to include the image then only the second really works.
ALT1 ... that Captain John T. Newton commanded
USS Missouri on the first steam-powered crossing of the Atlantic?
ALT2 ... that Captain John T. Newton commanded
USS Missouri(pictured) on the first steam-powered Atlantic crossing, but was court-martialled when it was later destroyed in a fire?
Image: Clear ; used in the article ; relevant ; and seems free of copyright issues . The
Commons page has a tag on it, but as a picture from 1843 none of the potential concerns it mentions applies.
An interesting point.
This source refers to it as "the first United States Navy steam-powered ship to cross the Atlantic"; a search for earlier Atlantic crossings brings up a much earlier transit by the SS Savannah, which was a hybrid steam and sailing ship.
BD2412T 00:01, 22 April 2021 (UTC)reply
ALT3: "that Captain John T. Newton commanded
USS Missouri on the first crossing of the Atlantic by an American steam-powered warship, then was
court-martialed after an accidental fire sank the ship? (See painting.)"
ALT4: "that after commanding
USS Missouri on the first crossing of the Atlantic by an American steam-powered warship, Captain John T. Newton was
court-martialed after an accidental fire sank the ship? (See painting.) "... the frigate steamed from Norfolk ... for Gibraltar on the first power crossing of the Atlantic by an American steam warship."
[1]Clarityfiend (
talk) 00:25, 22 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Thanks
Clarityfiend. I see you've fixed the wording in the article too. I've moved the reference to the body of the article and I think this is good to go now. I'm striking the earlier ALTs and passing ALT3 and ALT4. I prefer ALT3 since it puts the name of the article earlier. ›
Morteetalk 00:49, 22 April 2021 (UTC)reply
re your last edit, if the picture is included it'll probably be "(pictured)" after the mention of USS Missouri rather than "(See painting.)" at the end. I've no objection either way. ›
Morteetalk 01:16, 22 April 2021 (UTC)reply
I also prefer ALT3, as it only uses the word "after" once, which is enough.
BD2412T 20:33, 26 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Let's say ALT3a: "that Captain John T. Newton commanded
USS Missouri (pictured) on the first crossing of the Atlantic by an American steam-powered warship, then was
court-martialed after an accidental fire sank the ship?"
BD2412T 20:35, 26 April 2021 (UTC)reply
A fact from John T. Newton appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 30 April 2021 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that Captain John T. Newton commanded
USS Missouri on the first crossing of the Atlantic by an American steam-powered warship, and was later
court-martialed after an accidental fire sank the ship?
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
There is an asserted portrait of the subject
on this genealogy website, but I can not discern its origins or copyright status.
BD2412T 17:47, 28 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Nantes, France
According to his
Find-a-Grave listing, Newton was "educated at Nantes, France", but I have not yet found corroboration of that claim.
BD2412T 21:46, 30 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Did you know nomination
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by
MeegsC (
talk) 09:59, 26 April 2021 (UTC)reply
... that after commanding
USS Missouri on the first steam-powered crossing of the Atlantic, Captain John T. Newton was
court-martialed after a crewman accidentally started a fire that destroyed the ship? Source: "The trial of Capt. John T. Newton, in which the Naval Court Martial now assembled in this city have been engaged for the last three weeks, terminated yesterday. ... One of our most distinguished and gallant officers has been arraigned on the charge of negligence in the loss of that splendid steamship, the Missouri, which was destroyed by fire at Gibraltar in August, 1843, and which he commanded."
New York Daily Herald, October 16, 1844
This is a great rescue job from
the AfD. I hope and expect this will pass, but there are a couple of things to address. Review follows:
Newness: Technically a fail but
IAR. At the time this was nominated, (06:59, 5 April) the article was 17,408 bytes (raw), 6756 characters (1099 words) readable. Seven days earlier was 29 March. The 5x expansion started on 26 March either here or here depending on which is the relevant metric. It's clearly one continued expansion by the same editors, though, so I trust that there's enough leeway to pass this.
Length (it was still marked as a stub on the talk page but I've graded it C for now. Could be B); sourcing (I don't have access many but they look good); NPV ; plagiarism/copyvios:
Hook sourcing: It is interesting but I need clarification on the sourcing. The source given here mentions the court martial, but not the "first steam-powered crossing of the Atlantic". The sentence in the article has two references. One is written by Newton himself and also doesn't mention this. I don't have access to the other, or the one at the end of the paragraph. Can you confirm with a quotation that one of them covers that claim? Looking at
USS Missouri (1841) it doesn't give an inline citation but mentions using free text from
this page, which says it was the first "power crossing of the Atlantic by an American steam warship" (my emphasis). That's narrower, and would need to be reflected both in the article and (if mentioned) in the hook if there were earlier non-American or non-warship crossings.
Hook interesting:
Hook length: The hook is either 200 or 201 characters, depending if the space between the ellipsis and "that" counts. That puts it right on, or just over, the limit. I'd propose shorter alts, which would rely on the same sourcing once provided. I prefer the first as it's crisper, but if you want to include the image then only the second really works.
ALT1 ... that Captain John T. Newton commanded
USS Missouri on the first steam-powered crossing of the Atlantic?
ALT2 ... that Captain John T. Newton commanded
USS Missouri(pictured) on the first steam-powered Atlantic crossing, but was court-martialled when it was later destroyed in a fire?
Image: Clear ; used in the article ; relevant ; and seems free of copyright issues . The
Commons page has a tag on it, but as a picture from 1843 none of the potential concerns it mentions applies.
An interesting point.
This source refers to it as "the first United States Navy steam-powered ship to cross the Atlantic"; a search for earlier Atlantic crossings brings up a much earlier transit by the SS Savannah, which was a hybrid steam and sailing ship.
BD2412T 00:01, 22 April 2021 (UTC)reply
ALT3: "that Captain John T. Newton commanded
USS Missouri on the first crossing of the Atlantic by an American steam-powered warship, then was
court-martialed after an accidental fire sank the ship? (See painting.)"
ALT4: "that after commanding
USS Missouri on the first crossing of the Atlantic by an American steam-powered warship, Captain John T. Newton was
court-martialed after an accidental fire sank the ship? (See painting.) "... the frigate steamed from Norfolk ... for Gibraltar on the first power crossing of the Atlantic by an American steam warship."
[1]Clarityfiend (
talk) 00:25, 22 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Thanks
Clarityfiend. I see you've fixed the wording in the article too. I've moved the reference to the body of the article and I think this is good to go now. I'm striking the earlier ALTs and passing ALT3 and ALT4. I prefer ALT3 since it puts the name of the article earlier. ›
Morteetalk 00:49, 22 April 2021 (UTC)reply
re your last edit, if the picture is included it'll probably be "(pictured)" after the mention of USS Missouri rather than "(See painting.)" at the end. I've no objection either way. ›
Morteetalk 01:16, 22 April 2021 (UTC)reply
I also prefer ALT3, as it only uses the word "after" once, which is enough.
BD2412T 20:33, 26 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Let's say ALT3a: "that Captain John T. Newton commanded
USS Missouri (pictured) on the first crossing of the Atlantic by an American steam-powered warship, then was
court-martialed after an accidental fire sank the ship?"
BD2412T 20:35, 26 April 2021 (UTC)reply