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Making matters worse on the article about the OTHER (innocent) Brian Chase, there is a link back to this article. Rather than working as disambiguation, it creates the false impression that the wrong Brian Chase is the offender.
Sean7phil ( talk) 16:47, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
If we could only fill in a coherent narrative about his editor days -- the article's only lacuna. Lotsofissues 05:37, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm floored.
-- James S. 03:44, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
It gets more interesting if you realise that we were jostling for position with cnn.com at the time. Now no longer. ;-) Kim Bruning 04:04, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Is that graph right? Wikipedia has 2 billion page views per day? I don't believe it.
I'm not sure this was good for Wikipedia-- reading the OP Ed about the slander has made me respect and trust Wikipedia less.
Sean7phil ( talk) 15:53, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
There seems to be a lot of red links. Are they really needed? For example, I think we could remove his high school link and probably a few others. Comments? Gflores Talk 15:56, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
There is no mention of his son (who has the same name and his own Wiki page)- has he been deleted?
And Why is there a John Miller link above (To "liberal media" in the National Review) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.126.250 ( talk) 14:24, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
I disagree with many of the recent edits to this article. Let's take them one-by-one:
Kaldari 14:38, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
The name "John Seigenthaler Sr." is something of a misnomer. For most of Seigenthaler's early life he was actually known as "John Lawrence Seigenthaler Jr." since his dad's name is also "John Lawrence Seigenthaler". Once he became a prominent journalist, he was generally referred to as simply "John Seigenthaler" or "John Lawrence Seigenthaler". It was not until relatively recently that people began referring to him as "John Seigenthaler Sr." to distinguish him from his son, the journalist John Michael Seigenthaler. This is a bit confusing, however, since the original John Lawrence Seigenthaler was also sometimes referred to as "John Seigenthaler Sr." back in the fifties. So to summarize this rather confusing history, the subject of this article has been known under three different names over the course of his life: "John Seigenthaler Jr.", "John Seigenthaler", and "John Seigenthaler Sr." Does it make sense for us to use "John Seigenthaler Sr." as the title? Or should it be change it to simply "John Seigenthaler" or "John Lawrence Seigenthaler"? Kaldari 20:37, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
"In 2002, when it was discovered that USA Today reporter Jack Kelley had fabricated some of his stories, USA Today turned to Seigenthaler, along with veteran editors Bill Hilliard and Bill Kovach, to monitor the investigation."
Is this important and relavent enough to include in Seigenthaler's article? It seems like a rather trivial fact compared to the rest of the article's content. I can think of many more notable events concerning Seigenthaler that are not even mentioned in this article for the sake of brevity and encyclopedic merit. Would anyone object if I removed this paragraph? Kaldari 06:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Here's an article about Gore's investigative reporting days: http://archives.cjr.org/year/93/1/gore.asp 67.170.241.246 03:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
In the past week there have been several sophisticated vandalism attempts on this article. Some of them have been successful at keeping vandalism unnoticed for several days. Please be attentive to all changes to this article, even apparent reversions of vandalism. Kaldari 22:57, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe this is true. He never actually requested that his article be deleted, he just complained that it was inaccurate. YDAM TALK 18:36, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=John_Seigenthaler%2C_Sr.&diff=94456920&oldid=94215560 Megapixie 06:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
I find it to be completely hilarious, this Brian Chase is a genius, we need more vandalism like that—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.75.175.125 ( talk • contribs) 04:43, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Hurting someone's reputation by lying makes the slanderer a genius? Hitler was a genious-- is that the kind of genius you are referring to?
Sean7phil ( talk) 15:49, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
After my first edit to this article, User:Kaldari expressed a strong interest in having me banned, so I am raising an issue on the talk page before I do any more editing. The current version of the article says "As the publisher, Seigenthaler worked with Al Gore, then a reporter, on investigative stories about Nashville city council corruption in the early 1970s." This is not exactly the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. In fact, Gore and Seigenthaler -- according to the article that is presently sourced -- "concocted a sting operation to nail [Morris] Haddox, a young pharmacist widely viewed as an up-and-comer in local black political circles." Haddox was acquitted when he got his day in court, but the trial-by-press, in articles penned by Gore, was extremely damaging to him. So IMO, just saying that Gore and Seigenthaler were investigating corruption is a bit of a whitewash. -- Tsunami Butler 21:19, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Even if the page doesn't require semi-protection, it should be at least move protected. There's no legitimate reason why the article would be moved, and there have been two vandalistic moves. Andjam 02:16, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Why such a detailed bio for such an ordinary person? Let's get rid of the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TCO ( talk • contribs) 14:47, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm curious, where is the edit which bashed John Seigenthaler? 70.65.245.94 ( talk) 20:01, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Damn, that was quick, thanks.-- 70.65.245.94 ( talk) 21:18, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
As part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles' Project quality task force, all old good articles are being re-reviewed to ensure that they meet current good article criteria (as detailed at WP:WIAGA.) I have determined that this one definitely does not; it was probably only nom'd in response to the who bio incident, but speaking of shoddy, unverified content...
I am placing the article on hold for one week pending improvements. Keep me appraised of development or ask questions here on this page. Thanks, Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs( talk) 21:18, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Well, since not much got done in the time period allotted, I'm just going to delist now. I'll try and strip out the unsourced statements above when I have time; to anyone who wants to renominate it at WP:GAN, I would recommend addressing the above issues. Comments, take it to my talk page. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs( talk) 14:34, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
The Freedom Forum webpage says that it was founded by Al Heuhart, not John. He should not be given credit. http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=4020 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.7.86.120 ( talk) 18:30, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
"After the incident, Wikipedia took steps to prevent a recurrence, including barring unregistered users from creating new pages." That is only true at least for the English version. Sukarnobhumibol ( talk) 09:40, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
It was a significant event in the History of Wikipedia, that's true, and is rightly mentioned in that article. But was it a significant event in the life of John Seigenthaler? I doubt it. We don't normally mention in a biography article that 'the subject has had bad things written about them on the Internet'. If the defamatory text had appeared in any website other than Wikipedia, would it even be mentioned here? Robofish ( talk) 13:02, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
What is John Seigenthaler's role in the Alonzo Mann Affair and the Leo Frank exoneration movement leading to Posthumous Pardon of Leo Frank? Carmelmount ( talk) 18:46, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
In May 2005, an anonymous user created a five-sentence Wikipedia article about Seigenthaler that contained false and defamatory content.
Change to
In May 2005, a Wikipedia article was created about Seigenthaler that contained false and defamatory content.
Trying to add "Five-sentence" tries to make it appear like it wasn't a big deal.
Trying to add "an anonymous user" tries to make it appear like it wasn't a Wikipedia contributor "anonymous user are contributor like Login in Anonymous user".
Come on Editor, you guys should be better then this. Just because you don't like something or believe in it, doesn't give you the right to spin it, to fit the way you want.
His whole incident highlights a potential problem for Wikipedia that the fonder learned from and solve, don't attempt to pretty it up, or devalue it.
Sound day today for Wikipedia for me. I came here for one article, got mad at the spin, did more research, seen more, and lost a lot of trust and confidence SMH....
Hopefully thing improve on wikipedia "if not hopefully something destroys it". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.203.36.3 ( talk) 09:22, 30 December 2012 (UTC) \
Please spell Seigenthaler correctly in the death section. Especially when it is spelled right up top. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmlbs697 ( talk • contribs) 00:46, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:25, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
This section ties Seigenthaler to a (somewhat) compromised criminal investigation of his friend, Sheriff "Fate" Thomas of Nashville. The FBI claimed that Thomas was tipped off before they intended. Nothing is mentioned directly connecting Seigenthaler to the tip-off. I'm removing all reference to this event—as it stands it's connecting Mr. Seigenthaler to the botched investigation by weaselly innuendo. The reference is a news article behind a paywall, and the editor who inserted the info hasn't been active since 2006. Please contact me at my Talk page if you disagree. Tapered ( talk) 07:07, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
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I noticed on Seigenthaler's wiki page, it says "this article is semi-protected to promote compliance with the policy on biographies of living people". The guy's been dead for over five years now. I don't mind the article being semi-protected, I'm not saying get rid of it, but I think it would be better to just change it to "this article is semi-protected" or "this article is semi-protected due to vandalism" instead. Not mad, just something that I think needs to be changed for accuracy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheNamelessIndividual ( talk • contribs) 17:17, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
I'm just curious: why is his name spelled "Seigenthaler"? The proper German spelling is "Siegenthaler" whereas "ei" is actually pronounced more like an English "y" rather than an "ee" sound -- i.e. "zy-g'ntaler". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.123.105.105 ( talk) 03:44, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Add external link to YouTube video "Journalists: Did You Hear What I Said?" at the Charlie Dean Archives https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edw6wThzTXg The film was produced by The Newspaper Fund, Inc. in 1966 and shows reporter Frank Ritter writing a series of stories in The Nashville Tennessean about the problem of children dropping out of school. John Seigenthaler is closely involved in developing these stories. Radbond ( talk) 01:22, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
John Seigenthaler article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4 |
John Seigenthaler was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Delisted good article |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has been
mentioned by a media organization:
|
Please see Archives for a detailed list of discussion archives.
Making matters worse on the article about the OTHER (innocent) Brian Chase, there is a link back to this article. Rather than working as disambiguation, it creates the false impression that the wrong Brian Chase is the offender.
Sean7phil ( talk) 16:47, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
If we could only fill in a coherent narrative about his editor days -- the article's only lacuna. Lotsofissues 05:37, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm floored.
-- James S. 03:44, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
It gets more interesting if you realise that we were jostling for position with cnn.com at the time. Now no longer. ;-) Kim Bruning 04:04, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Is that graph right? Wikipedia has 2 billion page views per day? I don't believe it.
I'm not sure this was good for Wikipedia-- reading the OP Ed about the slander has made me respect and trust Wikipedia less.
Sean7phil ( talk) 15:53, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
There seems to be a lot of red links. Are they really needed? For example, I think we could remove his high school link and probably a few others. Comments? Gflores Talk 15:56, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
There is no mention of his son (who has the same name and his own Wiki page)- has he been deleted?
And Why is there a John Miller link above (To "liberal media" in the National Review) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.126.250 ( talk) 14:24, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
I disagree with many of the recent edits to this article. Let's take them one-by-one:
Kaldari 14:38, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
The name "John Seigenthaler Sr." is something of a misnomer. For most of Seigenthaler's early life he was actually known as "John Lawrence Seigenthaler Jr." since his dad's name is also "John Lawrence Seigenthaler". Once he became a prominent journalist, he was generally referred to as simply "John Seigenthaler" or "John Lawrence Seigenthaler". It was not until relatively recently that people began referring to him as "John Seigenthaler Sr." to distinguish him from his son, the journalist John Michael Seigenthaler. This is a bit confusing, however, since the original John Lawrence Seigenthaler was also sometimes referred to as "John Seigenthaler Sr." back in the fifties. So to summarize this rather confusing history, the subject of this article has been known under three different names over the course of his life: "John Seigenthaler Jr.", "John Seigenthaler", and "John Seigenthaler Sr." Does it make sense for us to use "John Seigenthaler Sr." as the title? Or should it be change it to simply "John Seigenthaler" or "John Lawrence Seigenthaler"? Kaldari 20:37, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
"In 2002, when it was discovered that USA Today reporter Jack Kelley had fabricated some of his stories, USA Today turned to Seigenthaler, along with veteran editors Bill Hilliard and Bill Kovach, to monitor the investigation."
Is this important and relavent enough to include in Seigenthaler's article? It seems like a rather trivial fact compared to the rest of the article's content. I can think of many more notable events concerning Seigenthaler that are not even mentioned in this article for the sake of brevity and encyclopedic merit. Would anyone object if I removed this paragraph? Kaldari 06:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Here's an article about Gore's investigative reporting days: http://archives.cjr.org/year/93/1/gore.asp 67.170.241.246 03:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
In the past week there have been several sophisticated vandalism attempts on this article. Some of them have been successful at keeping vandalism unnoticed for several days. Please be attentive to all changes to this article, even apparent reversions of vandalism. Kaldari 22:57, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe this is true. He never actually requested that his article be deleted, he just complained that it was inaccurate. YDAM TALK 18:36, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=John_Seigenthaler%2C_Sr.&diff=94456920&oldid=94215560 Megapixie 06:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
I find it to be completely hilarious, this Brian Chase is a genius, we need more vandalism like that—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.75.175.125 ( talk • contribs) 04:43, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Hurting someone's reputation by lying makes the slanderer a genius? Hitler was a genious-- is that the kind of genius you are referring to?
Sean7phil ( talk) 15:49, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
After my first edit to this article, User:Kaldari expressed a strong interest in having me banned, so I am raising an issue on the talk page before I do any more editing. The current version of the article says "As the publisher, Seigenthaler worked with Al Gore, then a reporter, on investigative stories about Nashville city council corruption in the early 1970s." This is not exactly the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. In fact, Gore and Seigenthaler -- according to the article that is presently sourced -- "concocted a sting operation to nail [Morris] Haddox, a young pharmacist widely viewed as an up-and-comer in local black political circles." Haddox was acquitted when he got his day in court, but the trial-by-press, in articles penned by Gore, was extremely damaging to him. So IMO, just saying that Gore and Seigenthaler were investigating corruption is a bit of a whitewash. -- Tsunami Butler 21:19, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Even if the page doesn't require semi-protection, it should be at least move protected. There's no legitimate reason why the article would be moved, and there have been two vandalistic moves. Andjam 02:16, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Why such a detailed bio for such an ordinary person? Let's get rid of the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TCO ( talk • contribs) 14:47, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm curious, where is the edit which bashed John Seigenthaler? 70.65.245.94 ( talk) 20:01, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Damn, that was quick, thanks.-- 70.65.245.94 ( talk) 21:18, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
As part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles' Project quality task force, all old good articles are being re-reviewed to ensure that they meet current good article criteria (as detailed at WP:WIAGA.) I have determined that this one definitely does not; it was probably only nom'd in response to the who bio incident, but speaking of shoddy, unverified content...
I am placing the article on hold for one week pending improvements. Keep me appraised of development or ask questions here on this page. Thanks, Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs( talk) 21:18, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Well, since not much got done in the time period allotted, I'm just going to delist now. I'll try and strip out the unsourced statements above when I have time; to anyone who wants to renominate it at WP:GAN, I would recommend addressing the above issues. Comments, take it to my talk page. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs( talk) 14:34, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
The Freedom Forum webpage says that it was founded by Al Heuhart, not John. He should not be given credit. http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=4020 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.7.86.120 ( talk) 18:30, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
"After the incident, Wikipedia took steps to prevent a recurrence, including barring unregistered users from creating new pages." That is only true at least for the English version. Sukarnobhumibol ( talk) 09:40, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
It was a significant event in the History of Wikipedia, that's true, and is rightly mentioned in that article. But was it a significant event in the life of John Seigenthaler? I doubt it. We don't normally mention in a biography article that 'the subject has had bad things written about them on the Internet'. If the defamatory text had appeared in any website other than Wikipedia, would it even be mentioned here? Robofish ( talk) 13:02, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
What is John Seigenthaler's role in the Alonzo Mann Affair and the Leo Frank exoneration movement leading to Posthumous Pardon of Leo Frank? Carmelmount ( talk) 18:46, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
In May 2005, an anonymous user created a five-sentence Wikipedia article about Seigenthaler that contained false and defamatory content.
Change to
In May 2005, a Wikipedia article was created about Seigenthaler that contained false and defamatory content.
Trying to add "Five-sentence" tries to make it appear like it wasn't a big deal.
Trying to add "an anonymous user" tries to make it appear like it wasn't a Wikipedia contributor "anonymous user are contributor like Login in Anonymous user".
Come on Editor, you guys should be better then this. Just because you don't like something or believe in it, doesn't give you the right to spin it, to fit the way you want.
His whole incident highlights a potential problem for Wikipedia that the fonder learned from and solve, don't attempt to pretty it up, or devalue it.
Sound day today for Wikipedia for me. I came here for one article, got mad at the spin, did more research, seen more, and lost a lot of trust and confidence SMH....
Hopefully thing improve on wikipedia "if not hopefully something destroys it". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.203.36.3 ( talk) 09:22, 30 December 2012 (UTC) \
Please spell Seigenthaler correctly in the death section. Especially when it is spelled right up top. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmlbs697 ( talk • contribs) 00:46, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:25, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
This section ties Seigenthaler to a (somewhat) compromised criminal investigation of his friend, Sheriff "Fate" Thomas of Nashville. The FBI claimed that Thomas was tipped off before they intended. Nothing is mentioned directly connecting Seigenthaler to the tip-off. I'm removing all reference to this event—as it stands it's connecting Mr. Seigenthaler to the botched investigation by weaselly innuendo. The reference is a news article behind a paywall, and the editor who inserted the info hasn't been active since 2006. Please contact me at my Talk page if you disagree. Tapered ( talk) 07:07, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
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I noticed on Seigenthaler's wiki page, it says "this article is semi-protected to promote compliance with the policy on biographies of living people". The guy's been dead for over five years now. I don't mind the article being semi-protected, I'm not saying get rid of it, but I think it would be better to just change it to "this article is semi-protected" or "this article is semi-protected due to vandalism" instead. Not mad, just something that I think needs to be changed for accuracy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheNamelessIndividual ( talk • contribs) 17:17, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
I'm just curious: why is his name spelled "Seigenthaler"? The proper German spelling is "Siegenthaler" whereas "ei" is actually pronounced more like an English "y" rather than an "ee" sound -- i.e. "zy-g'ntaler". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.123.105.105 ( talk) 03:44, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Add external link to YouTube video "Journalists: Did You Hear What I Said?" at the Charlie Dean Archives https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edw6wThzTXg The film was produced by The Newspaper Fund, Inc. in 1966 and shows reporter Frank Ritter writing a series of stories in The Nashville Tennessean about the problem of children dropping out of school. John Seigenthaler is closely involved in developing these stories. Radbond ( talk) 01:22, 4 June 2022 (UTC)