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Please remove the qualification of theologican when referring to Piper. He's merely a fervent religious preacher. A theologican is a scientist who studies religion. Theologicans are not necessarily religious themselves. My guess is that someone deliberately confused 'practicing religion' with 'studying religion', presumably aiming to deceivingly endow Piper with the intellectual authority the qualification 'theologican' airs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tavernsenses ( talk • contribs) 11:18, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
It's difficult to decide how to classify Calvinists like Piper (and Spurgeon and other Baptists) -- as Category:Reformed theologians and/or Category:Calvinists -- because the term "Reformed" has varied meaning. In one strict sense, "Reformed" can refer to a Calvinist soteriology plus an adherence to Covenant theology. (Piper has the former but, as a Baptist, a different view of the latter.) On the other hand, some folks call themselves "Reformed Baptists" by which they mean they have a Calvinist soteriology but reject traditional Covenant theology. Perhaps we should break the Calvinist category into "Reformed Credo-baptists" and "Reformed Paedo-baptists" (or "Reformed Baptists" and "Reformed Covenanters"). As they stand now, though, I put Piper in the "Calvinists" category but not the "Reformed theologians" category. Thoughts? -- Flex 18:30, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
The biography section of this entry is copied almost verbatim from DesiringGod.org [1], which is copyrighted. A rewrite is in order. rae 21:09, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)
it may be taken from his book bio, but I believe that his correct degree from Fuller Theological Seminary was an MDiv (Masters of Divinity) rather than Bachelors. It is a 3 yr program and qualifies a person to apply to PhD programs. see http://www.fuller.edu/admissions/academic-programs.aspx Sheepdogn ( talk) 00:51, 5 April 2009 (UTC)sheepdogn
It is misinforming to quote that portion of his letter about his cancer without the context. The "good news" he is referring to is that the recovery will be short, not that he has cancer. -- 216.171.65.132
I just reposted a link to this MP3 file which is gaining rapid popluarity and circulation in Christian (and even reformed) circles. The existence and spread of this "mash" is a testament to Piper's rising celebrity in the mainstream world. Yes, it is humorous--but it is also a perfect example of the intersection between pop-culture, Christianity, Calvinism, and John Piper as a cultural icon. Since it is a quote from Piper himself, it is not derogatory or demeaning in any way, but affirms a basic tenet of reformed theology: the fallen nature of man. As such, it deserves a place, if not as an entire section, at least as a link. I would be happy to place it in the "external links" category, but it just seemed to fit better in the multimedia section. Thoughts and discussion are welcomed. -Neal
Piper's mission statement needs to be worked into his biography even more so than his quote on Christian Hedonism.
Piper says he exists to "spread a passion for the supremacy of God in all things for the joy of all peoples through Jesus Christ." Infinite Joy 03:43, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I propose that we merge Christian Hedonism into this article because, while many support Christian Hedonism, AFAIK Piper is the only one who has written about it in any significant detail. -- Fl e x ( talk| contribs) 21:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Mark Driscol has a megachurch and has written about it as well. Many other authors have written for and against it, and it is no longer a topic solely from piper 206.155.48.254 18:38, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I suggest we merge Desiring God into this article. -- Flex ( talk| contribs) 13:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Please merge relevant content, if any, from Desiring God per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Desiring God. (If there is nothing to merge, just leave it as a redirect.) Thanks. — Quarl ( talk) 2007-04-24 10:17Z
User:Davidcmathis has several times deleted " Reformed Baptist" from the intro to this article. He said on his talk page:
I contend that the SBC strains of Reformed Baptists may be the most popular in America, but they are not the only versions. Moreover Baptist polity is essentially congregationalist with some loose connectionalism, so the official affiliation of his church isn't decisive. Rather, because of his beliefs he qualifies as a Reformed Baptist. Instead of continuing to revert back and forth, let's work it out here. -- Flex ( talk/ contribs) 15:12, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
I personally do not associate the term "Reformed Baptist" solely with the ARBCA or SBC. Indeed, when I hear the term, John Piper is one of the foremost leaders that come to mind. I vote to keep the term in the article. Snow1215 ( talk) 19:19, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Dear Brian and others, it may be shortsighted to say that if the terms are accurate separately then they are also accurate together. For example, try this with "butter" and "fly." Sometimes two words together point to something different than they do separately. I find this to be the case with RB in the States. It sounds like all you guys are on the other side of the pond. I think RB has a different connotation here in the US. The Brits may think of JP as the headlining RB, but that's not how American evangelicals perceive him, from my perception. Among young American evangelicals, JP is not mainly known as a Baptist, or even as Reformed, especially not as RB. He's known more as prolific author-theologian and passionate preacher especially from his connection with the Passion movement and 268generation. Is there a way that we can make this entry friendly to all English speakers? I don't think the American perception should carry the day, but does anyone have an idea for how we can at least factor that in? -Davidcmathis Davidcmathis ( talk) 16:33, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Maybe this isn't important, but it seems like the section on Christian hedonism goes from describing what John Piper teaches/believes to asserting what other writers and the bible say. Asserting that John Piper uses them as his source is different from asserting that they agree with him.
Specifically,
He was awakened to this notion in the writings of Jonathan Edwards, Blaise Pascal, and C. S. Lewis, among others, and then found it throughout the Bible, for example Ps 16:11; 37:4; Phil 3:1; 4:4 among others.
This could be worded better. I suggest it say something like:
He uses the work of Jonathan Edwards, Blaise Pascal, and C. S. Lewis, plus numerous Bible passages such as Ps 16:11; 37:4; Phil 3:1; 4:4 to support this teaching.
Thoughts?
-- Mydogisbox ( talk) 15:04, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone else think that Noel Piper should get her own page? She has written 4 books and is very involved with Desiring God ministries —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.137.25.45 ( talk) 13:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
I have proposed merging List of books by John Piper into this article--it already duplicates to a large part. Though notable, he is not of the very high notability that justifies a list for authors-- he is not, for example C.S. Lewis. (deliberating selecting a Christian apologist). I have listed it at Wikipedia:Proposed mergers to get some other opinion. DGG ( talk ) 19:07, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
After two months, with no other editors weighing in to support a merge, I have removed this tag. Hokie RNB 14:08, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
I have removed a criticism section regarding Piper's tweets about the 2013 Tornadoes, and Rachel Held Evans' reaction. It has been picked up by a couple of news outlets (including the Huffington Post) but it doesn't seem to be particularly significant - just a flash in the pan of no lasting encyclopedic value. Besides, we shouldn't have criticism sections, per WP:CSECTION. But I wonder if we should have a section on Piper's twitter activity? He seems to be active there, and his tweets are often discussed - especially his "Farewell, Rob Bell". So perhaps this latest one could be included in that section, if we feel it will have lasting significance. Anyway, please discuss it here if you think it should be added back in, so we can achieve some sort of consensus. St Anselm ( talk) 15:32, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
I notice that a couple of controversies were removed with this edit. I certainly agree with the 2007 one being removed. The only opposition/controversy was sourced to a blog. The 2009 controversy was better sourced, however, so I have no particular objection to that being added back in. St Anselm ( talk) 22:35, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
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I have seen on two occasions an ad on Facebook feeds that directly wikilink to this page. To me this is strong evidence (albeit circumstantial evidence) that this page was primarily written by someone with a connection to the subject. Otherwise why would someone pay to have Facebook link directly to this page? I have edited on Wikipedia for many years, but rarely on pages subject to the BLP policy, so I'm not sure what is the best course of action? Advice? Davemeistermoab ( talk) 19:17, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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Please remove the qualification of theologican when referring to Piper. He's merely a fervent religious preacher. A theologican is a scientist who studies religion. Theologicans are not necessarily religious themselves. My guess is that someone deliberately confused 'practicing religion' with 'studying religion', presumably aiming to deceivingly endow Piper with the intellectual authority the qualification 'theologican' airs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tavernsenses ( talk • contribs) 11:18, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
It's difficult to decide how to classify Calvinists like Piper (and Spurgeon and other Baptists) -- as Category:Reformed theologians and/or Category:Calvinists -- because the term "Reformed" has varied meaning. In one strict sense, "Reformed" can refer to a Calvinist soteriology plus an adherence to Covenant theology. (Piper has the former but, as a Baptist, a different view of the latter.) On the other hand, some folks call themselves "Reformed Baptists" by which they mean they have a Calvinist soteriology but reject traditional Covenant theology. Perhaps we should break the Calvinist category into "Reformed Credo-baptists" and "Reformed Paedo-baptists" (or "Reformed Baptists" and "Reformed Covenanters"). As they stand now, though, I put Piper in the "Calvinists" category but not the "Reformed theologians" category. Thoughts? -- Flex 18:30, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
The biography section of this entry is copied almost verbatim from DesiringGod.org [1], which is copyrighted. A rewrite is in order. rae 21:09, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)
it may be taken from his book bio, but I believe that his correct degree from Fuller Theological Seminary was an MDiv (Masters of Divinity) rather than Bachelors. It is a 3 yr program and qualifies a person to apply to PhD programs. see http://www.fuller.edu/admissions/academic-programs.aspx Sheepdogn ( talk) 00:51, 5 April 2009 (UTC)sheepdogn
It is misinforming to quote that portion of his letter about his cancer without the context. The "good news" he is referring to is that the recovery will be short, not that he has cancer. -- 216.171.65.132
I just reposted a link to this MP3 file which is gaining rapid popluarity and circulation in Christian (and even reformed) circles. The existence and spread of this "mash" is a testament to Piper's rising celebrity in the mainstream world. Yes, it is humorous--but it is also a perfect example of the intersection between pop-culture, Christianity, Calvinism, and John Piper as a cultural icon. Since it is a quote from Piper himself, it is not derogatory or demeaning in any way, but affirms a basic tenet of reformed theology: the fallen nature of man. As such, it deserves a place, if not as an entire section, at least as a link. I would be happy to place it in the "external links" category, but it just seemed to fit better in the multimedia section. Thoughts and discussion are welcomed. -Neal
Piper's mission statement needs to be worked into his biography even more so than his quote on Christian Hedonism.
Piper says he exists to "spread a passion for the supremacy of God in all things for the joy of all peoples through Jesus Christ." Infinite Joy 03:43, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I propose that we merge Christian Hedonism into this article because, while many support Christian Hedonism, AFAIK Piper is the only one who has written about it in any significant detail. -- Fl e x ( talk| contribs) 21:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Mark Driscol has a megachurch and has written about it as well. Many other authors have written for and against it, and it is no longer a topic solely from piper 206.155.48.254 18:38, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I suggest we merge Desiring God into this article. -- Flex ( talk| contribs) 13:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Please merge relevant content, if any, from Desiring God per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Desiring God. (If there is nothing to merge, just leave it as a redirect.) Thanks. — Quarl ( talk) 2007-04-24 10:17Z
User:Davidcmathis has several times deleted " Reformed Baptist" from the intro to this article. He said on his talk page:
I contend that the SBC strains of Reformed Baptists may be the most popular in America, but they are not the only versions. Moreover Baptist polity is essentially congregationalist with some loose connectionalism, so the official affiliation of his church isn't decisive. Rather, because of his beliefs he qualifies as a Reformed Baptist. Instead of continuing to revert back and forth, let's work it out here. -- Flex ( talk/ contribs) 15:12, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
I personally do not associate the term "Reformed Baptist" solely with the ARBCA or SBC. Indeed, when I hear the term, John Piper is one of the foremost leaders that come to mind. I vote to keep the term in the article. Snow1215 ( talk) 19:19, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Dear Brian and others, it may be shortsighted to say that if the terms are accurate separately then they are also accurate together. For example, try this with "butter" and "fly." Sometimes two words together point to something different than they do separately. I find this to be the case with RB in the States. It sounds like all you guys are on the other side of the pond. I think RB has a different connotation here in the US. The Brits may think of JP as the headlining RB, but that's not how American evangelicals perceive him, from my perception. Among young American evangelicals, JP is not mainly known as a Baptist, or even as Reformed, especially not as RB. He's known more as prolific author-theologian and passionate preacher especially from his connection with the Passion movement and 268generation. Is there a way that we can make this entry friendly to all English speakers? I don't think the American perception should carry the day, but does anyone have an idea for how we can at least factor that in? -Davidcmathis Davidcmathis ( talk) 16:33, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Maybe this isn't important, but it seems like the section on Christian hedonism goes from describing what John Piper teaches/believes to asserting what other writers and the bible say. Asserting that John Piper uses them as his source is different from asserting that they agree with him.
Specifically,
He was awakened to this notion in the writings of Jonathan Edwards, Blaise Pascal, and C. S. Lewis, among others, and then found it throughout the Bible, for example Ps 16:11; 37:4; Phil 3:1; 4:4 among others.
This could be worded better. I suggest it say something like:
He uses the work of Jonathan Edwards, Blaise Pascal, and C. S. Lewis, plus numerous Bible passages such as Ps 16:11; 37:4; Phil 3:1; 4:4 to support this teaching.
Thoughts?
-- Mydogisbox ( talk) 15:04, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone else think that Noel Piper should get her own page? She has written 4 books and is very involved with Desiring God ministries —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.137.25.45 ( talk) 13:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
I have proposed merging List of books by John Piper into this article--it already duplicates to a large part. Though notable, he is not of the very high notability that justifies a list for authors-- he is not, for example C.S. Lewis. (deliberating selecting a Christian apologist). I have listed it at Wikipedia:Proposed mergers to get some other opinion. DGG ( talk ) 19:07, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
After two months, with no other editors weighing in to support a merge, I have removed this tag. Hokie RNB 14:08, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
I have removed a criticism section regarding Piper's tweets about the 2013 Tornadoes, and Rachel Held Evans' reaction. It has been picked up by a couple of news outlets (including the Huffington Post) but it doesn't seem to be particularly significant - just a flash in the pan of no lasting encyclopedic value. Besides, we shouldn't have criticism sections, per WP:CSECTION. But I wonder if we should have a section on Piper's twitter activity? He seems to be active there, and his tweets are often discussed - especially his "Farewell, Rob Bell". So perhaps this latest one could be included in that section, if we feel it will have lasting significance. Anyway, please discuss it here if you think it should be added back in, so we can achieve some sort of consensus. St Anselm ( talk) 15:32, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
I notice that a couple of controversies were removed with this edit. I certainly agree with the 2007 one being removed. The only opposition/controversy was sourced to a blog. The 2009 controversy was better sourced, however, so I have no particular objection to that being added back in. St Anselm ( talk) 22:35, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
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I have seen on two occasions an ad on Facebook feeds that directly wikilink to this page. To me this is strong evidence (albeit circumstantial evidence) that this page was primarily written by someone with a connection to the subject. Otherwise why would someone pay to have Facebook link directly to this page? I have edited on Wikipedia for many years, but rarely on pages subject to the BLP policy, so I'm not sure what is the best course of action? Advice? Davemeistermoab ( talk) 19:17, 10 July 2022 (UTC)