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Does anyone else think that, while the "Beatles are bigger than Jesus" statement and ensuing furor is important, it overtakes the article a bit. Perhaps we can edit down the mention on this page, and create a page devoted to the full details, quotes, fall out? Hotcop2 ( talk) 16:15, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Would we be able to hotlink the entire quote: "The Beatles are more popular than Jesus" to go to a page called "John Lennon: Beatles/Jesus Controversy"? Hotcop2 ( talk) 19:30, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks PL for fixing those links! Hotcop2 ( talk) 19:32, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, that works better. So I've reworded it, ready for its link. Hotcop2 ( talk) 22:17, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Why don't you put it as Beatles are more popular than Jesus controversy or Beatles-Jesus popularity controversy. Or whatever in the text. I added the article to section title. Kasaalan ( talk) 03:55, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
I see this often referred to as "The Christ Statement". GabeMc ( talk) 21:08, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
I suggest merging John Ono Lennon II to this page. I'm unable to find a notability guideline for fetuses (...) but I think WP:NOTINHERETED applies quite well here. Note that children of famous people who have passed into the plane of the living don't even get a page just for being the child of a celebrity ( Brooklyn Beckham and Jason Allen Alexander get piped to their parents for example). I also think WP:ONEEVENT applies. Conical Johnson ( talk) 03:42, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
I agree. I didn't even know that page linked up. If it must be merged, the Y.O. page is more appropriate, Let's not separate mother and child... Hotcop2 ( talk) 13:02, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
I think everyone can agree this is a unique case. Not many celebrity children get time on their parents' albums, much less mentions (usually lengthy) in every major biography about them, and also in every major interview (Rolling Stone, Playboy and others) they gave to the press. This is one who was... and on top of that wasn't born; didn't get to be. I think Conical Johnson is overlooking these factors in "notability", and I find the "too long" suggestion a bit dubious for related reasons. ONEEVENT doesn't apply, as the unborn child played a role in several things (Lennon's relationships with Ono and his wife and son, his public perception, two albums, the Beatles' later history). I could see a merger into Yoko Ono, as part of her relationship with her (to-be) husband, if nothing else will satisfy... but I think it's unnecessary. Zephyrad ( talk) 15:27, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
What say you to a merge to
Yoko Ono?
Ok, merger completed. Conical Johnson ( talk) 21:44, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
I propose that Chapman's name should not appear on the page. Continuing to propagate his fame has no purpose other than to make it apparent to other talent-less American loonies that they can likewise gain great fame by killing a defenceless celebrity. Certainly some basic details of the killing should appear on the page, but advertising the killer's name is simply playing into his hands. B. Fairbairn ( talk) 05:28, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
The image captioned "Lennon, left, and the rest of The Beatles arriving in the US in 1964" should be removed, for two reasons: 1) Another image on the same page is a blow-up of this image; 2) The mention of the US and the inclusion of the 'arriving in the US' images is inappropriate for the Beatles, who were born and raised in the UK, not the US. The Beatles travelled to numerous countries - how about including images for the Beatles arriving in other countries as well.
Only one Beatle eventually ended up living in the US (and we know what happened to him).
B. Fairbairn (
talk)
12:03, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
In my opinion, it is an important quotation, as it sheds light on the nature of John's and Yoko's relationship. Wikiwiserick ( talk) 14:21, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
What about this new version of the paragraph:
Any opinions on this version? Wikiwiserick ( talk) 14:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Here is an expanded version of the paragraph:
This certainly supports the view that their relationship was bizarre. Therefore, I have included the new paragraph in the article. Wikiwiserick ( talk) 01:27, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Revision
In a 1981 interview, Ono remarked, "I used to say to [Lennon], ‘I think you’re a closet fag, you know.’ Because after we started to live together, John would say to me, ‘Do you know why I like you? Because you look like a bloke in drag.’" New York Magazine, May 25, 1981, 38 [4] From the beginning, the new relationship was considered rather bizarre by some parties. The Mirror claimed on October 1, 2000, "Cynthia was not the only one hurt by John and Yoko's bizarre relationship." Albert Harry Goldman argued in his book titled The Lives of John Lennon (1988, new ed. 2001), that Ono was regarded by Lennon as a “magical being who could solve all his problems” though it was a “grand illusion”, she openly cheated on Lennon with gigolos and finally:
“both he and Yoko were burnt out from years of hard drugs, overwork, emotional breakdowns, quack cures, and bizarre diets, to say nothing of the effects of living constantly in the glare of the mass media (458). However, even after their separation, when they “were no longer collaborating as a team, they remained in constant communication. Their relationship had taken another bizarre turn. No longer able to live together, they found that they couldn’t live apart either.” John Blaney, John Lennon: Listen to this Book (2005), 139.
Well try not to insert "bizarre" as personal comment. I cannot comment on whether their relationship was bizarre or not, however Yoko's own comments are bizarre even as a humor in my sense. And try adding it as a 3rd party comment with WP:RS. Kasaalan ( talk) 03:25, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
I've changed some of the Murder section:
There is no funeral for John. John loved and prayed for the human race. Please pray the same for him. Love, Yoko and Sean.
Yoko Ono, 1980
There is no funeral for John. Later in the week we will set the time for a silent vigil to pray for his soul. We invite you to participate from wherever you are at the time. We thank you for the many flowers sent to John. But in the future, instead of flowers, please consider sending donations in his name to the Spirit Foundation Inc., which is John's personal charitable foundation. He would have appreciated it very much. John loved and prayed for the human race. Please pray the same for him. Love, Yoko & Sean.
There is no funeral for John. Later in the week we will set the time for a silent vigil to pray for his soul. We invite you to participate from wherever you are at the time. We thank you for the many flowers sent to John. But in the future, instead of flowers, please consider sending donations in his name to the Spirit Foundation Inc., which is John's personal charitable foundation. He would have appreciated it very much. John loved and prayed for the human race. Please pray the same for him. Love, Yoko & Sean.
{editsemiprotected} The time of death in the murder section is incorrect. According to Lennon's death certificate, which, can be viewed here: http://www.jfkmontreal.com/john_lennon/Death_Cert.htm , John was declared dead at 11:15 pm, not 11:07, which is how it currently appears. Nme91 ( talk) 20:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
I would like to suggest we consider converting the citations in this article to use {{ sfn}}. This makes the notes neater, and can make editing easier by removing a vast amount of clutter from the markup. Is there agreement with this suggestion? For examples of articles using {{ sfn}}, see Hey Jude and The Beatles. PL290 ( talk) 12:16, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Lennon has inspired a number of monuments, sculptures, etc., and the article should mention that, but the list is a bit out of control. I suggest we remove all the entries except those where there is a news story or other material that supports the notability of the piece. You'll note that some of the citations in that section currently point to blog entries, photos, etc., and not reliable sources that establish notability. — John Cardinal ( talk) 02:23, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
The sentence: "Lennon was often disruptive in class and ridiculed his teachers, resulting in them refusing to have him as a student." should be corrected to read "... resulting in their refusing...". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.29.210.254 ( talk) 23:20, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
During John Lennon's final NYC concert, his bands pseudonym was referred too (on the video tape at least) as 'The Plastic Ono Elephant Memory Band.' However, I don't see this on the pseudonym list. Could someone edit/confirm this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MoneyIsMeaningless ( talk • contribs) 23:26, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
( MoneyIsMeaningless ( talk) 23:26, 8 December 2009 (UTC))
As far as I know, this is the only street named after him in the world. At least, I haven't seen anything of the kind before. Though they say there are several such streets, but where are they? (the street in St Petersburg, Russia is not official).
So, I have a picture of me standing near the street sign in Lviv.
Here are the links to the event: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BD,_%D0%94%D0%B6%D0%BE%D0%BD#.D0.9F.D0.B0.D0.BC.D1.8F.D1.82.D1.8C_.D0.BE_.D0.9B.D0.B5.D0.BD.D0.BD.D0.BE.D0.BD.D0.B5 (in Russian wiki) http://postup.brama.com/usual.php?what=15015 (in Ukrainian) Diemon.ukr ( talk) 11:15, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Was he ever a vegetarian in his life? I've heard that he was after India for at least a wee bit? -- 207.177.111.212 ( talk) 06:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Not really. He tried to stick to a macrobiotic diet, and avoided sugar, except when he had pizza, whoppers, chocolate and coca cola. And coffee -- all forms. If anything, he was a caffeinitarian. Hotcop2 ( talk) 14:02, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
{{ editsemiprotected}}
In introductory paragraph, I think Lennon should also be identified as a poet. "John Winston Ono Lennon,[1][2] MBE (9 October 1940 – 8 December 1980) was an English rock musician, singer-songwriter, author, poet, and peace activist who gained worldwide fame as one of the founding members of The Beatles." Carasch ( talk) 04:10, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
)
Well, I tend to agree with what you all have said. I suppose I should post on the McCartney page, because it DOES say "poet" (as well as "painter") in his bio... and even though he did publish a volume of poetry and lyrics, going by the arguments above, it is not what he is primarily known as. Carasch ( talk) 04:04, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
"In His Own Write" and "Spaniad in the Works" are both works of poetry technically so it would be right to lable him that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 18:41, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Lennon had books of poems published, that makes him a poet, maybe not a prolific poet, but a poet. GabeMc ( talk) 01:43, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
John Cardinal said:
“ | I don't agree with this change. Lennon is not primarily known as a poet, and if we include poet then we could similarly add artist and/or painter, record producer, piano player, etc. It's not that he wasn't those things; adding them in the first sentence of the lead reduces the focus on his primary activities. —( talk) 18:24, 7 January 2010 (UTC) | ” |
Lennon is listed as an English rock musician, singer-songwriter, author, and peace activist.
Paul is listed as an English singer-songwriter, poet, composer, multi-instrumentalist, entrepreneur, record and film producer, painter, and animal rights and peace activist.
Lennon has two published books of poetry yet you think adding one more word would to his intro "reduces the focus on his primary activities".
Again, sounds like a 100% McCartney guy with no objective opinion. GabeMc ( talk) 03:04, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
John Cardinal said:
“ | "How do you know if I agree with the sentence from that article that you quoted? YOU DON'T. Stop guessing; you're not good at it. | ” |
You reverted my edits on said subject, that's why it seems you agree with adding everything Paul has done once or twice to his resume. I could be wrong, but you seem to want all those things listed based on your reluctance to trim it down. GabeMc ( talk) 23:42, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
There usec to be a sentence about that. Was it removed because it was inaccurate? Does anyone know what his iq is? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 03:54, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
He had 20 with the Beatles, one with Elton John, and three posthumous #1s after his death, when "(Just Like)Starting Over", "Imagine" (re-entry), and "Woman" all topped the US chart within 8 weeks of each other, that's 24 US #1 hits, counted the same way Paul's 32 hits are. [1] GabeMc ( talk) 04:32, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
According to the Billboard info on allmusic, The Beatles had 21 Billboard Hot 100 #1 hits in America, Lennon 3, McCartney 9. GabeMc ( talk) 05:39, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
www.allmusic.com
Technically, Mark Chapman was responsible for three. Hotcop2 ( talk) 16:18, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
And lest we forget "Fame" by (Bowie-Lennon-Alomar) Hotcop2 ( talk) 19:30, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Since the Peter and Gordon hit was a Lennon/McCartney, that makes 27 total Hot 100 #1s for Lennon. GabeMc ( talk) 22:25, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
"Happy X-Mas(War is Over)" was number one but billboard took a holiday on that week so it isn't officially but it sold more than any other billboard single that week, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 05:06, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Why is this album not as regarded as Lennons other two respected ones? Seems to me there are at least 7 very good tracks on it, and some of it is better even then POB, IMHO. GabeMc ( talk) 00:10, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone else think it should be mentioned with POB and Imagine in the lead? GabeMc ( talk) 00:55, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
It is after all his only #1 album with his only #1 single on it. GabeMc ( talk) 01:22, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I agree that this album truly adds another revealing layer to Lennon's persona, and the songs immaculately describe the pain and fear that he felt during the Lost Weekend. However, I feel that this album is not nearly as groundbreaking as the raw anger POB or the sugar coated vision of Imagine. Potent and brilliant, but all pretty much within the singer-songwriter vein already established. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.84.219.19 ( talk) 03:56, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
we need to stick this lovely little ditty in here somewhere Hotcop2 ( talk) 00:49, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
Before the lost weekend, Pang was Lennon's mistress for some months while he was still living in New York with Ono. The article currently implies a three-stage process of (a) Lennon & Ono separate, (b) Lennon and Pang become lovers, (c) Lennon and Ono are reconciled. This is clearly a false impression and I propose to add a few further details to correct the story presented. According to Harry (2000b):
I accept that my recent edit to use "mistress" left things unclear, without the rest of the picture being given. I don't think all this warrants a lot of space in this article, but what it does say should reflect what reliable sources say. I'll put something together to straighten it out. PL290 ( talk) 08:22, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Lennon launched a solo career that would span the next, punctuated Hotcop2 ( talk) 22:36, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
oh decade. except for the 4 years he didn't do anything. Hotcop2 ( talk) 22:48, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
Because the great "Epstein honeymoon" was eliminated form the Cynthia section, perhaps we should include Epstein in the relationship section before someone puts all theories back in the article. Including the trip to Spain, Paul's 21st birthday, John's "on the record" quote from Playboy in 1980, John using his relationship as leverage within the group, etc. Hotcop2 ( talk) 23:18, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
This section needs some reworking. First of all, the sentence "A Jew and a local record store manager, Epstein was homosexual, at a time of strong and widespread social prejudice against homosexuality" -- why is he listed as "a Jew" first and foremost? Doesn't sound nice to this Jewish girl... How about, "The manager of his family's large record store, Epstein was a Jewish homosexual at a time..."?
Secondly, if Lennon's taunting of Epstein must be included, then how about some context? The way it's written makes Lennon seem like a monster. He knew Epstein was in love with him, so he used the teasing as a way of drawing a line... and there are accounts that Epstein actually enjoyed the verbal abuse given him by John (according to Norman), as Epstein liked a "bit of rough." (I think it was Alistair Taylor who said that, though he certainly wasn't the only one.) And of course, McCartney (and, I believe, Harrison) teased Epstein as well! Anyway, the way it's handled in the Epstein article is good.
Lastly, the "rich fag Jew" line in Baby You're a Rich Man only happened in practice sessions (Norman again)... there is no proof it made it to the final cut. Carasch ( talk) 04:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
The Lost Weekend section needs to be expanded to include the scenes Lennon created in 1974 at the Los Angeles club The Troubadour during The Smothers Brothers' performance and with the infamous Kotex on forehead incident.-- Jeanne Boleyn ( talk) 09:27, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. Done. Hotcop2 ( talk) 16:57, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
{{editsemiprotected}} John Lennon Memorial strawberry fields is at 14 East 60th Street New York, NY 10022, United State
86.154.47.171 (
talk)
16:01, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Not done
Hello, please change May 1974 to June 1974 for the return to NY as this is directly from May's book Loving John. In her book May states John returned alone with Harry to NY in May 1974 and May Pang followed several weeks later. Do not recall the exact page number but can provide if requested. This would then make this change cited. under lost weekend section. same as pangs page
I propose removing the word "young" in the first sentence of the second paragraph, "...Lennon as a young teenager became involved in the skiffle craze." Is there such a thing as an old teenager? If the intention is to emphasize his youth (14, I believe), then I propose changing the phrase "as a young teenager" to "as a youth" or change the sentence to "In his early teens,..." Carasch ( talk) 03:51, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
Why were the quotes about John's pending murder removed? It's definitely notable when you consider that he said many of these as recently as the very day of his murder. I am referring to the Andy Peebles interview and the RKO interview and, to a lesser extent, the "I'll probably be popped off by some loony" quote. Also, why was the link to his murder removed in the introduction? I mean, I know that people will more than likely read the entire article, but sometimes people just want to read a certain section in which case linking to the page about his murder on the introduction makes sense. I just don't understand why those were moved. I am assuming because they weren't relevant? I don't know, I disagree on that. Also, I investigated further and saw that it was removed because YouTube was not a reliable source. Having an interview in audio from the day of his murder is not a reliable source?Having an interview with Andy Peebles in audio is not a reliable source? Come on, that's just splitting hairs. John directly says the various quotes and from his own mouth to the interviewer. How is that an unreliable source? John is discussing Double Fantasy while using these lines which would indicate these were some of his final interviews. How is that an unreliable source? I am not trying to come across as hostile, but I just don't get it at all. It just seems a bit pretentious to remove a YouTube source which clearly and definitively proves that John said these things. ChrisSimpson ( talk) 06:09, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I still disagree about taking the quotes down. I mean I could easily find a text source, but it just seems like an unnecessary task. I mean, on Milk and Honey, his posthumous album, they have a condensed version of the last interview which includes the "dead and buried" line. ChrisSimpson ( talk) 13:43, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Give people the option to choose. I think that, while the quotes are indeed quite depressing and a bit ironic, it is relevant information. I mean, his murder happened and it was a part of his life, but putting the quotes in the article would give it more context I think. It's not meant to be macabre or morbid, it is a factual quote. Many people have given quotes which became ironic due to the nature of their death. I just don't see the harm in adding the quotes in, but I guess nothing I can say will change your mind. ChrisSimpson ( talk) 15:59, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I am not too sure I like the inclusion of "expert" opinions (pseudo-intellectual reviews, observations, etc.) peppered (no pun intended) throughout the article. Hotcop2 ( talk) 07:07, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
"became partners" sounds a bit lame, in my opinion. Hotcop2 ( talk) 01:09, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
My concern is over the sourcing of both the list of "notable instruments" in the infobox and the discussion of his guitars in the second paragraph of the "Instruments played" subsection, and the consistency between the two.
The narrative has a hatnote directing the reader to an article with the promising title John Lennon's musical instruments. It does name all these guitars and many others, but it is sparsely sourced. It looks like it does include viable sources for the Epiphone Casino and the two Gibson models. I see no sourcing for Rickenbacker, Martin, Fender, or the several other brands mentioned in the instruments article. DocKino ( talk) 00:28, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Is there really a debate about whether A Day in The Life is ICONIC?~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by GabeMc ( talk • contribs) 22:41, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
I agree, A Day in the Life and Strawberry Fields are John's two best songs, and they are not mentioned on his page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.190.168.55 ( talk) 05:38, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
I don't know how to upload music samples, but isn't it true that the samples should be "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "Imagine"? Musically, "Strawberry Fields Forever" is his most critically acclaimed song with even John Lennon himself saying that it was his "greatest musical achievement". And then "Imagine" lyrically is one of the most iconic/famous songs of all time (I believe). They also are more unique sonically then the other too when "In My Life" sounds like a lot of smokey robinson type songs or something and "A Day In The Life" needs the whole orchestra build up to be heard in full to really come across as great.
"A Day In The Life" doesn't sound good on a 30 sec edit, it's a song that has to be heard in full you know. "In My Life" is a song that some people I find get really personal about, and I have a feeling it's just one or two people who do everything they can to make sure it is included. I like these two songs, but I think, objectively, "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "Imagine" are better and more representative songs of John Lennon.
What do you think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 04:54, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
People shouldn't care if "Strawberry Fields Forever" is already sampled on the Beatles' page... If that is really a serious though "Help" is fine. "I Am The Walrus" also works too.
Ok...
Strawberry Fields Forever: -John Lennon says in the playboy interview it was his "greatest musical achievement with the Beatles". Paul McCartney also said it was his best beatle song too in interviews and has covered it at his own solo concerts. George Martin stated it was his favorite beatle song in many interviews. -Most acclaimed Beatle song by far along with Yesterday, A Day in the Life, and Hey Jude by critics and "best of" lists.
And Imagine should be one of them for lots of obvious reasons... It's sung all over the world. And lyrically it is similar "Give Peace a Chance" and has the same basic message really except musically it is a lot better and more critically/generally acclaimed.
Also, both of these songs are defenetly his top 5 musically/melodic best. Strawberry Fields Forever covers his poetry lyrics and beatle period pretty well and Imagine covers his really political blunt lyric style and solo period.
I have sources for the interviews and critic claims.
It's hard though to put scientifically how one piece of art is better than another, but aesthetically I think it's true that "Strawberry Fields Forever" was his best and most original/defining melody and "Imagine" his best solo work/social activist piece. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk • contribs)
I think we can justify any of the songs mentioned. If the article text and rationales can indeed be made to justify it, I suggest we aim for all three ("Imagine", GPAC and SFF) as replacements for the current two. I would say "Imagine" stands out as the essential, iconic, number one choice. Both GPAC and SFF are clearly good additional candidates; currently though, the article makes not a single mention of SFF. Before a sample of that song could be justified, this shortcoming would need to be addressed, so perhaps the IP editor volunteering sources above would like to provide those in any case. I've added a sample of "Imagine"; per WP:NFC we're only allowed 10%, which for "Imagine" gives us 18 seconds of a slow-tempo song—not time for many words! I think it's OK but if others want to suggest a change, no problem. I can add one for GPAC in due course; a sample already exists for SFF so it's just a matter of writing the GPAC and SFF rationales for use by this article. PL290 ( talk) 11:51, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Gimme Some Truth is not that important. Happy Xmas? You see, we'll never agree on all our personal favorites, so let's limit them to "huge societal impact" and we narrow it down to two (Woman Is The Nigger of the World not withstanding). Hotcop2 ( talk) 02:37, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
You don't need more than one lennon political song to represent lennon's political songs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 04:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
I think John's page needs a third song mentioned, I think Instant Karma! should be it. GabeMc ( talk) 21:17, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
. Why is Paul's page so top-heavey but John's is not?~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by GabeMc ( talk • contribs) 23:28, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
One of the samples should be "Strawberry Fields Forever", it is his best and most original song, right next to "Imagine" in terms of artistic merit. It should replace "Give Peace a Chance". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 05:39, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
I believe that they collaborated on some music. That is why I reverted the edits by Bobsanderson555. Andrew Gradman talk/ WP:Hornbook 06:35, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
Under personal relationships, there should be a section on Stu Sutcliffe. Yoko has said, after all, that she felt like she knew him because John spoke of him almost daily. Stu was a tremendous influence on John and their relationship was clearly one of the most important in his life.
And, I would like to kindly and respectfully ask people to look at the Epstein section one more time with an editor's eye. It is curious that more is written about his relationship with Epstein than with McCartney, and it is almost as much as is written about his relationship with Yoko. Carasch ( talk) 18:54, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
that was a weird period of his life when he just got off drugs and stuff isn't there a better picture we could use? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 00:23, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
well aesthetically you should have a better picture than this. You read an encyclopedia, they care about aesthetics and don't just post some awkward random photo of albert einstine with his eyes closed... i'm not saying we should censor the photo, put the photo on the page about his "bed for peace protest" page, but i'm just saying this photo doesn't represents him very well as a person and it looks awkward...
in other words this photo doesn't look encyclopedic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 00:51, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
That picture is just horrible. It must be the worst picture of John Lennon. It doesn't do justice to John, he looks like a patient in a mental institution. And he was such a beautiful man. I propse one of these pictures (for example): http://www.lastfm.ru/music/John+Lennon/+images/365060 http://www.lastfm.ru/music/John+Lennon/+images/313482 http://www.lastfm.ru/music/John+Lennon/+images/100099 http://www.lastfm.ru/music/John+Lennon/+images/209157 Withthebeattles ( talk) 11:10, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
Copyrighted (all). Tbhotch Talk C. 20:25, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
How do you change the picture? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 06:53, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
I suggest we set up automated archiving of this talk page using MiszaBot. If there are no objections I'll set it up presently. PL290 ( talk) 12:04, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I am a bit bewildered that there have apparently been some opposition to aligning the article to British English spelling, with WP:COMMONALITY being cited as the reason for keeping things as they were. As I read it, WP:COMMONALITY attempts to deal with choice of words to use, and not spelling, which is the province of WP:ENGVAR. Whilst there may be some justification to use Oxford English spelling if the first major contributor used those -iza- -ize- or -izi- forms consistently, I do not believe WP:COMMONALITY nor WP:RETAIN were intended as justification for changing 'immortalise' to 'immortalize', or 'manoeuvre' to 'maneuver', thereby being in breach of WP:ENGVAR. Ohconfucius ¡digame! 01:41, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia tries to find words that are common to all varieties of English ... Insisting on a single term or a single usage as the only correct option does not serve the purposes of an international encyclopedia.
The main focus of WP:COMMONALITY is contained in the opening statement: "Wikipedia tries to find words that are common to all varieties of English..." (emphasis added); it further elucidates that if " ...one variant spelling appears in an article name, redirect pages are made to accommodate the other variants, as with Artefact and Artifact, so that all variants can be used in searches and in linking" (emphasis added). This is the only time that WP:COMMONALITY addresses the issue of spelling. It clearly allows for variations in spelling and does not mandate the type of commonality that DocKino seems to think it does.
In addressing DocKino's claim that 'But for new articles or for ones where a predominant style has yet to be established, yes, the commonality principle guides us to use -ize. ': he is once again dead wrong. It is WP:RETAIN that specifically states that "...the variety chosen by the first major contributor should be adopted." There is nothing in WP:COMMONALITY addressing this.
I suggest that you:
Radiopathy •talk• 15:56, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
Why is Mr. Lennon's atheism not mentioned in the article, he was a very vocal critic of religion wasn't he. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.79.240 ( talk) 12:51, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
He wasn't an atheist. In his last interview for Playboy, he said, "I'm a most religious fellow." One of his last songs was "Grow Old With Me (God Bless Our Love)." Criticizing organized religion and not believing in a god are two different things. Hotcop2 ( talk) 13:08, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Sorry for the misunderstanding, I guess I only knew the well publicised "bigger than Jesus" stuff. I stand corrected.! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.78.144 ( talk) 21:10, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Mark Chapman revealed his motive for murder was a simple craving for fame and notoriety (Lennon was randomly chosen as a victim because he was accessible to the public). Chapman had drawn a list of celebrities he thought of murdering to achieve fame, Liz Taylor, Johnny Carson among others. But he found it was impossible to get close enough to kill them, so he chose Lennon. New York Authorities long suspected at Chapman's Trial that Lennon was of no consequence to Chapman other than a means to an end, and went to lengths to make this fact clear at his Trial. (Source of Chapmans Motive, New Musical Express online). Johnwrd ( talk) 12:07, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
"Born and raised in Liverpool, Lennon became involved in the skiffle craze as a teenager, his first band, The Quarrymen, evolving into The Beatles in 1960."
The previous sentence is a run-on. It should read:
"Born and raised in Liverpool, Lennon became involved in the skiffle craze as a teenager. His first band, The Quarrymen, evolved into the The Beatles in 1960"
or
"Born and raised in Liverpool, Lennon became involved in the skiffle craze as a teenager; his first band, The Quarrymen, evolved into The Beatles in 1960." I'm not really an editor, but would like permission to make this change. Cdub42 ( talk) 19:07, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
Cjh97 ( talk) 17:36, 28 September 2010 (UTC) John Winston Ono Lennon, MBE (9 October 1940 – 8 December 1980) was an English singer-songwriter who rose to worldwide fame as one of the founding members of The Beatles, and together with Paul McCartney formed one of the most successful songwriting partnerships of the 20th century.
Born and raised in Liverpool, Lennon became involved in the skiffle craze as a teenager, his first band, The Quarrymen, evolving into The Beatles in 1960. As the group began to undergo the disintegration that led to their break-up towards the end of that decade, Lennon launched a solo career that would span the next, punctuated by critically acclaimed albums, including John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band and Imagine, and iconic songs such as "Give Peace a Chance" and "Imagine".
Lennon revealed a rebellious nature and acerbic wit in his music, his writing, on film, and in interviews, and became controversial through his work as a peace activist. He moved to New York City in 1971, where his criticism of the Vietnam War resulted in a lengthy attempt by Richard Nixon's administration to deport him, while his songs were adapted as anthems by the anti-war movement. Disengaging himself from the music business in 1975 to devote time to his family, Lennon reemerged in 1980 with a comeback album, Double Fantasy, but was murdered three weeks after its release.
Lennon's solo album sales in the United States alone stand at 14 million units,[1] and as performer, writer, or co-writer he is responsible for 27 number one singles on the US Hot 100 chart.a In 2002, a BBC poll on the 100 Greatest Britons voted him eighth, and in 2008, Rolling Stone ranked him the fifth greatest singer of all time. He was posthumously inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame in 1987 and into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1994. by connor-james hurst
His face is not showing, all that we can see is the side of his face. Someone has got to be able to change this picture. -- ChelseaChoice ( talk) 20:51, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
There was a programme on BBC Radio 4 today about John's home "Mendips" which you can listen to for the next seven days here. According to that his Aunt Mimi and her husband only acquired the house during WWII because it was unoccupied and during the war empty houses could be taken over by anyone who needed them. The Wenner tapes will also be played on BBC7 on Saturday at 9th October at 10PM Richerman ( talk) 12:45, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm confused, everyone in the US is celebrating John Lennon's 70th birthday today, October 8. But according to Wikipedia, his birthday was October 9. Can someone please clarify that for me? Thanks! Tina Kimmel ( talk) 18:28, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
happy 70th birthday -- Tony Winward ( talk) 00:05, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
Regardless of how one feels about her, it's an amazing omission. 24.5.102.149 ( talk) 17:01, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
Ryankonkolewski ( talk) 22:28, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
I know that for information to make it on to a Wikipedia page, it has to have a verifiable source. But what of using information by someone like Albert Goldman, who was known for doing sensationalistic hatchet jobs on the subjects of his tell-all biographies (like Elvis and Lennon)? Are his sources actually verifiable, or did he create things out of thin air in order to sell books? Look what is written in the Wikipedia article:
According to author Albert Goldman, Ono was regarded by Lennon as a "magical being" who could solve all his problems, but this was a "grand illusion", and she openly cheated on him with gigolos
Is it really necessary to include such nonsense in a Wikipedia entry? You might as well include The National Enquirer as a source. The truth is Goldman was an angry man with an ax to grind against people he hated. He should not be considered a "legitimate" biographer, and any passages pertaining to what Goldman says should be stricken from Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.191.24.198 ( talk) 07:45, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
"Born and raised in Liverpool, Lennon became involved in the skiffle craze as a teenager, his first band, The Quarrymen, evolving into The Beatles in 1960."
The previous sentence is a run-on. It should read:
"Born and raised in Liverpool, Lennon became involved in the skiffle craze as a teenager. His first band, The Quarrymen, evolved into the The Beatles in 1960"
or
"Born and raised in Liverpool, Lennon became involved in the skiffle craze as a teenager; his first band, The Quarrymen, evolved into The Beatles in 1960."
I'm not really an editor, but would like permission to make this change. Also, I'd like to apologize for requesting this edit on a previous thread; like I said, I'm pretty new to this. Cdub42 ( talk) 19:13, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
Semi-protection prevents edits from anonymous users (IP addresses), as well as edits from any account that is not autoconfirmed (is at least four days old and has ten or more edits to Wikipedia) or confirmed. Such users can request edits to a semi-protected page by proposing them on its talk page, using the
{{ Edit semi-protected}}
template if necessary to gain attention. They may also request the confirmed userright by visiting Requests for permissions.
Apparently, the reference 117 does not serve. Thanks.-- Beat 768 ( talk) 02:14, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
In the reference 135, What book is? There are three books of Coleman. Thanks.-- Beat 768 ( talk) 02:58, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
It's bugged me for a while that there seems to be no initiative to include the man's Official site. Can it be edited in? http://www.johnlennon.com/ -- Emperor Norton I ( talk) 05:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 |
Does anyone else think that, while the "Beatles are bigger than Jesus" statement and ensuing furor is important, it overtakes the article a bit. Perhaps we can edit down the mention on this page, and create a page devoted to the full details, quotes, fall out? Hotcop2 ( talk) 16:15, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Would we be able to hotlink the entire quote: "The Beatles are more popular than Jesus" to go to a page called "John Lennon: Beatles/Jesus Controversy"? Hotcop2 ( talk) 19:30, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks PL for fixing those links! Hotcop2 ( talk) 19:32, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, that works better. So I've reworded it, ready for its link. Hotcop2 ( talk) 22:17, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Why don't you put it as Beatles are more popular than Jesus controversy or Beatles-Jesus popularity controversy. Or whatever in the text. I added the article to section title. Kasaalan ( talk) 03:55, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
I see this often referred to as "The Christ Statement". GabeMc ( talk) 21:08, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
I suggest merging John Ono Lennon II to this page. I'm unable to find a notability guideline for fetuses (...) but I think WP:NOTINHERETED applies quite well here. Note that children of famous people who have passed into the plane of the living don't even get a page just for being the child of a celebrity ( Brooklyn Beckham and Jason Allen Alexander get piped to their parents for example). I also think WP:ONEEVENT applies. Conical Johnson ( talk) 03:42, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
I agree. I didn't even know that page linked up. If it must be merged, the Y.O. page is more appropriate, Let's not separate mother and child... Hotcop2 ( talk) 13:02, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
I think everyone can agree this is a unique case. Not many celebrity children get time on their parents' albums, much less mentions (usually lengthy) in every major biography about them, and also in every major interview (Rolling Stone, Playboy and others) they gave to the press. This is one who was... and on top of that wasn't born; didn't get to be. I think Conical Johnson is overlooking these factors in "notability", and I find the "too long" suggestion a bit dubious for related reasons. ONEEVENT doesn't apply, as the unborn child played a role in several things (Lennon's relationships with Ono and his wife and son, his public perception, two albums, the Beatles' later history). I could see a merger into Yoko Ono, as part of her relationship with her (to-be) husband, if nothing else will satisfy... but I think it's unnecessary. Zephyrad ( talk) 15:27, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
What say you to a merge to
Yoko Ono?
Ok, merger completed. Conical Johnson ( talk) 21:44, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
I propose that Chapman's name should not appear on the page. Continuing to propagate his fame has no purpose other than to make it apparent to other talent-less American loonies that they can likewise gain great fame by killing a defenceless celebrity. Certainly some basic details of the killing should appear on the page, but advertising the killer's name is simply playing into his hands. B. Fairbairn ( talk) 05:28, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
The image captioned "Lennon, left, and the rest of The Beatles arriving in the US in 1964" should be removed, for two reasons: 1) Another image on the same page is a blow-up of this image; 2) The mention of the US and the inclusion of the 'arriving in the US' images is inappropriate for the Beatles, who were born and raised in the UK, not the US. The Beatles travelled to numerous countries - how about including images for the Beatles arriving in other countries as well.
Only one Beatle eventually ended up living in the US (and we know what happened to him).
B. Fairbairn (
talk)
12:03, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
In my opinion, it is an important quotation, as it sheds light on the nature of John's and Yoko's relationship. Wikiwiserick ( talk) 14:21, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
What about this new version of the paragraph:
Any opinions on this version? Wikiwiserick ( talk) 14:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Here is an expanded version of the paragraph:
This certainly supports the view that their relationship was bizarre. Therefore, I have included the new paragraph in the article. Wikiwiserick ( talk) 01:27, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Revision
In a 1981 interview, Ono remarked, "I used to say to [Lennon], ‘I think you’re a closet fag, you know.’ Because after we started to live together, John would say to me, ‘Do you know why I like you? Because you look like a bloke in drag.’" New York Magazine, May 25, 1981, 38 [4] From the beginning, the new relationship was considered rather bizarre by some parties. The Mirror claimed on October 1, 2000, "Cynthia was not the only one hurt by John and Yoko's bizarre relationship." Albert Harry Goldman argued in his book titled The Lives of John Lennon (1988, new ed. 2001), that Ono was regarded by Lennon as a “magical being who could solve all his problems” though it was a “grand illusion”, she openly cheated on Lennon with gigolos and finally:
“both he and Yoko were burnt out from years of hard drugs, overwork, emotional breakdowns, quack cures, and bizarre diets, to say nothing of the effects of living constantly in the glare of the mass media (458). However, even after their separation, when they “were no longer collaborating as a team, they remained in constant communication. Their relationship had taken another bizarre turn. No longer able to live together, they found that they couldn’t live apart either.” John Blaney, John Lennon: Listen to this Book (2005), 139.
Well try not to insert "bizarre" as personal comment. I cannot comment on whether their relationship was bizarre or not, however Yoko's own comments are bizarre even as a humor in my sense. And try adding it as a 3rd party comment with WP:RS. Kasaalan ( talk) 03:25, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
I've changed some of the Murder section:
There is no funeral for John. John loved and prayed for the human race. Please pray the same for him. Love, Yoko and Sean.
Yoko Ono, 1980
There is no funeral for John. Later in the week we will set the time for a silent vigil to pray for his soul. We invite you to participate from wherever you are at the time. We thank you for the many flowers sent to John. But in the future, instead of flowers, please consider sending donations in his name to the Spirit Foundation Inc., which is John's personal charitable foundation. He would have appreciated it very much. John loved and prayed for the human race. Please pray the same for him. Love, Yoko & Sean.
There is no funeral for John. Later in the week we will set the time for a silent vigil to pray for his soul. We invite you to participate from wherever you are at the time. We thank you for the many flowers sent to John. But in the future, instead of flowers, please consider sending donations in his name to the Spirit Foundation Inc., which is John's personal charitable foundation. He would have appreciated it very much. John loved and prayed for the human race. Please pray the same for him. Love, Yoko & Sean.
{editsemiprotected} The time of death in the murder section is incorrect. According to Lennon's death certificate, which, can be viewed here: http://www.jfkmontreal.com/john_lennon/Death_Cert.htm , John was declared dead at 11:15 pm, not 11:07, which is how it currently appears. Nme91 ( talk) 20:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
I would like to suggest we consider converting the citations in this article to use {{ sfn}}. This makes the notes neater, and can make editing easier by removing a vast amount of clutter from the markup. Is there agreement with this suggestion? For examples of articles using {{ sfn}}, see Hey Jude and The Beatles. PL290 ( talk) 12:16, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Lennon has inspired a number of monuments, sculptures, etc., and the article should mention that, but the list is a bit out of control. I suggest we remove all the entries except those where there is a news story or other material that supports the notability of the piece. You'll note that some of the citations in that section currently point to blog entries, photos, etc., and not reliable sources that establish notability. — John Cardinal ( talk) 02:23, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
The sentence: "Lennon was often disruptive in class and ridiculed his teachers, resulting in them refusing to have him as a student." should be corrected to read "... resulting in their refusing...". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.29.210.254 ( talk) 23:20, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
During John Lennon's final NYC concert, his bands pseudonym was referred too (on the video tape at least) as 'The Plastic Ono Elephant Memory Band.' However, I don't see this on the pseudonym list. Could someone edit/confirm this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MoneyIsMeaningless ( talk • contribs) 23:26, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
( MoneyIsMeaningless ( talk) 23:26, 8 December 2009 (UTC))
As far as I know, this is the only street named after him in the world. At least, I haven't seen anything of the kind before. Though they say there are several such streets, but where are they? (the street in St Petersburg, Russia is not official).
So, I have a picture of me standing near the street sign in Lviv.
Here are the links to the event: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BD,_%D0%94%D0%B6%D0%BE%D0%BD#.D0.9F.D0.B0.D0.BC.D1.8F.D1.82.D1.8C_.D0.BE_.D0.9B.D0.B5.D0.BD.D0.BD.D0.BE.D0.BD.D0.B5 (in Russian wiki) http://postup.brama.com/usual.php?what=15015 (in Ukrainian) Diemon.ukr ( talk) 11:15, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Was he ever a vegetarian in his life? I've heard that he was after India for at least a wee bit? -- 207.177.111.212 ( talk) 06:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Not really. He tried to stick to a macrobiotic diet, and avoided sugar, except when he had pizza, whoppers, chocolate and coca cola. And coffee -- all forms. If anything, he was a caffeinitarian. Hotcop2 ( talk) 14:02, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
{{ editsemiprotected}}
In introductory paragraph, I think Lennon should also be identified as a poet. "John Winston Ono Lennon,[1][2] MBE (9 October 1940 – 8 December 1980) was an English rock musician, singer-songwriter, author, poet, and peace activist who gained worldwide fame as one of the founding members of The Beatles." Carasch ( talk) 04:10, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
)
Well, I tend to agree with what you all have said. I suppose I should post on the McCartney page, because it DOES say "poet" (as well as "painter") in his bio... and even though he did publish a volume of poetry and lyrics, going by the arguments above, it is not what he is primarily known as. Carasch ( talk) 04:04, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
"In His Own Write" and "Spaniad in the Works" are both works of poetry technically so it would be right to lable him that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 18:41, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Lennon had books of poems published, that makes him a poet, maybe not a prolific poet, but a poet. GabeMc ( talk) 01:43, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
John Cardinal said:
“ | I don't agree with this change. Lennon is not primarily known as a poet, and if we include poet then we could similarly add artist and/or painter, record producer, piano player, etc. It's not that he wasn't those things; adding them in the first sentence of the lead reduces the focus on his primary activities. —( talk) 18:24, 7 January 2010 (UTC) | ” |
Lennon is listed as an English rock musician, singer-songwriter, author, and peace activist.
Paul is listed as an English singer-songwriter, poet, composer, multi-instrumentalist, entrepreneur, record and film producer, painter, and animal rights and peace activist.
Lennon has two published books of poetry yet you think adding one more word would to his intro "reduces the focus on his primary activities".
Again, sounds like a 100% McCartney guy with no objective opinion. GabeMc ( talk) 03:04, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
John Cardinal said:
“ | "How do you know if I agree with the sentence from that article that you quoted? YOU DON'T. Stop guessing; you're not good at it. | ” |
You reverted my edits on said subject, that's why it seems you agree with adding everything Paul has done once or twice to his resume. I could be wrong, but you seem to want all those things listed based on your reluctance to trim it down. GabeMc ( talk) 23:42, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
There usec to be a sentence about that. Was it removed because it was inaccurate? Does anyone know what his iq is? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 03:54, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
He had 20 with the Beatles, one with Elton John, and three posthumous #1s after his death, when "(Just Like)Starting Over", "Imagine" (re-entry), and "Woman" all topped the US chart within 8 weeks of each other, that's 24 US #1 hits, counted the same way Paul's 32 hits are. [1] GabeMc ( talk) 04:32, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
According to the Billboard info on allmusic, The Beatles had 21 Billboard Hot 100 #1 hits in America, Lennon 3, McCartney 9. GabeMc ( talk) 05:39, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
www.allmusic.com
Technically, Mark Chapman was responsible for three. Hotcop2 ( talk) 16:18, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
And lest we forget "Fame" by (Bowie-Lennon-Alomar) Hotcop2 ( talk) 19:30, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Since the Peter and Gordon hit was a Lennon/McCartney, that makes 27 total Hot 100 #1s for Lennon. GabeMc ( talk) 22:25, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
"Happy X-Mas(War is Over)" was number one but billboard took a holiday on that week so it isn't officially but it sold more than any other billboard single that week, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 05:06, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Why is this album not as regarded as Lennons other two respected ones? Seems to me there are at least 7 very good tracks on it, and some of it is better even then POB, IMHO. GabeMc ( talk) 00:10, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone else think it should be mentioned with POB and Imagine in the lead? GabeMc ( talk) 00:55, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
It is after all his only #1 album with his only #1 single on it. GabeMc ( talk) 01:22, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I agree that this album truly adds another revealing layer to Lennon's persona, and the songs immaculately describe the pain and fear that he felt during the Lost Weekend. However, I feel that this album is not nearly as groundbreaking as the raw anger POB or the sugar coated vision of Imagine. Potent and brilliant, but all pretty much within the singer-songwriter vein already established. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.84.219.19 ( talk) 03:56, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
we need to stick this lovely little ditty in here somewhere Hotcop2 ( talk) 00:49, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
Before the lost weekend, Pang was Lennon's mistress for some months while he was still living in New York with Ono. The article currently implies a three-stage process of (a) Lennon & Ono separate, (b) Lennon and Pang become lovers, (c) Lennon and Ono are reconciled. This is clearly a false impression and I propose to add a few further details to correct the story presented. According to Harry (2000b):
I accept that my recent edit to use "mistress" left things unclear, without the rest of the picture being given. I don't think all this warrants a lot of space in this article, but what it does say should reflect what reliable sources say. I'll put something together to straighten it out. PL290 ( talk) 08:22, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Lennon launched a solo career that would span the next, punctuated Hotcop2 ( talk) 22:36, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
oh decade. except for the 4 years he didn't do anything. Hotcop2 ( talk) 22:48, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
Because the great "Epstein honeymoon" was eliminated form the Cynthia section, perhaps we should include Epstein in the relationship section before someone puts all theories back in the article. Including the trip to Spain, Paul's 21st birthday, John's "on the record" quote from Playboy in 1980, John using his relationship as leverage within the group, etc. Hotcop2 ( talk) 23:18, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
This section needs some reworking. First of all, the sentence "A Jew and a local record store manager, Epstein was homosexual, at a time of strong and widespread social prejudice against homosexuality" -- why is he listed as "a Jew" first and foremost? Doesn't sound nice to this Jewish girl... How about, "The manager of his family's large record store, Epstein was a Jewish homosexual at a time..."?
Secondly, if Lennon's taunting of Epstein must be included, then how about some context? The way it's written makes Lennon seem like a monster. He knew Epstein was in love with him, so he used the teasing as a way of drawing a line... and there are accounts that Epstein actually enjoyed the verbal abuse given him by John (according to Norman), as Epstein liked a "bit of rough." (I think it was Alistair Taylor who said that, though he certainly wasn't the only one.) And of course, McCartney (and, I believe, Harrison) teased Epstein as well! Anyway, the way it's handled in the Epstein article is good.
Lastly, the "rich fag Jew" line in Baby You're a Rich Man only happened in practice sessions (Norman again)... there is no proof it made it to the final cut. Carasch ( talk) 04:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
The Lost Weekend section needs to be expanded to include the scenes Lennon created in 1974 at the Los Angeles club The Troubadour during The Smothers Brothers' performance and with the infamous Kotex on forehead incident.-- Jeanne Boleyn ( talk) 09:27, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. Done. Hotcop2 ( talk) 16:57, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
{{editsemiprotected}} John Lennon Memorial strawberry fields is at 14 East 60th Street New York, NY 10022, United State
86.154.47.171 (
talk)
16:01, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Not done
Hello, please change May 1974 to June 1974 for the return to NY as this is directly from May's book Loving John. In her book May states John returned alone with Harry to NY in May 1974 and May Pang followed several weeks later. Do not recall the exact page number but can provide if requested. This would then make this change cited. under lost weekend section. same as pangs page
I propose removing the word "young" in the first sentence of the second paragraph, "...Lennon as a young teenager became involved in the skiffle craze." Is there such a thing as an old teenager? If the intention is to emphasize his youth (14, I believe), then I propose changing the phrase "as a young teenager" to "as a youth" or change the sentence to "In his early teens,..." Carasch ( talk) 03:51, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
Why were the quotes about John's pending murder removed? It's definitely notable when you consider that he said many of these as recently as the very day of his murder. I am referring to the Andy Peebles interview and the RKO interview and, to a lesser extent, the "I'll probably be popped off by some loony" quote. Also, why was the link to his murder removed in the introduction? I mean, I know that people will more than likely read the entire article, but sometimes people just want to read a certain section in which case linking to the page about his murder on the introduction makes sense. I just don't understand why those were moved. I am assuming because they weren't relevant? I don't know, I disagree on that. Also, I investigated further and saw that it was removed because YouTube was not a reliable source. Having an interview in audio from the day of his murder is not a reliable source?Having an interview with Andy Peebles in audio is not a reliable source? Come on, that's just splitting hairs. John directly says the various quotes and from his own mouth to the interviewer. How is that an unreliable source? John is discussing Double Fantasy while using these lines which would indicate these were some of his final interviews. How is that an unreliable source? I am not trying to come across as hostile, but I just don't get it at all. It just seems a bit pretentious to remove a YouTube source which clearly and definitively proves that John said these things. ChrisSimpson ( talk) 06:09, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I still disagree about taking the quotes down. I mean I could easily find a text source, but it just seems like an unnecessary task. I mean, on Milk and Honey, his posthumous album, they have a condensed version of the last interview which includes the "dead and buried" line. ChrisSimpson ( talk) 13:43, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Give people the option to choose. I think that, while the quotes are indeed quite depressing and a bit ironic, it is relevant information. I mean, his murder happened and it was a part of his life, but putting the quotes in the article would give it more context I think. It's not meant to be macabre or morbid, it is a factual quote. Many people have given quotes which became ironic due to the nature of their death. I just don't see the harm in adding the quotes in, but I guess nothing I can say will change your mind. ChrisSimpson ( talk) 15:59, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I am not too sure I like the inclusion of "expert" opinions (pseudo-intellectual reviews, observations, etc.) peppered (no pun intended) throughout the article. Hotcop2 ( talk) 07:07, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
"became partners" sounds a bit lame, in my opinion. Hotcop2 ( talk) 01:09, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
My concern is over the sourcing of both the list of "notable instruments" in the infobox and the discussion of his guitars in the second paragraph of the "Instruments played" subsection, and the consistency between the two.
The narrative has a hatnote directing the reader to an article with the promising title John Lennon's musical instruments. It does name all these guitars and many others, but it is sparsely sourced. It looks like it does include viable sources for the Epiphone Casino and the two Gibson models. I see no sourcing for Rickenbacker, Martin, Fender, or the several other brands mentioned in the instruments article. DocKino ( talk) 00:28, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Is there really a debate about whether A Day in The Life is ICONIC?~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by GabeMc ( talk • contribs) 22:41, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
I agree, A Day in the Life and Strawberry Fields are John's two best songs, and they are not mentioned on his page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.190.168.55 ( talk) 05:38, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
I don't know how to upload music samples, but isn't it true that the samples should be "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "Imagine"? Musically, "Strawberry Fields Forever" is his most critically acclaimed song with even John Lennon himself saying that it was his "greatest musical achievement". And then "Imagine" lyrically is one of the most iconic/famous songs of all time (I believe). They also are more unique sonically then the other too when "In My Life" sounds like a lot of smokey robinson type songs or something and "A Day In The Life" needs the whole orchestra build up to be heard in full to really come across as great.
"A Day In The Life" doesn't sound good on a 30 sec edit, it's a song that has to be heard in full you know. "In My Life" is a song that some people I find get really personal about, and I have a feeling it's just one or two people who do everything they can to make sure it is included. I like these two songs, but I think, objectively, "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "Imagine" are better and more representative songs of John Lennon.
What do you think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 04:54, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
People shouldn't care if "Strawberry Fields Forever" is already sampled on the Beatles' page... If that is really a serious though "Help" is fine. "I Am The Walrus" also works too.
Ok...
Strawberry Fields Forever: -John Lennon says in the playboy interview it was his "greatest musical achievement with the Beatles". Paul McCartney also said it was his best beatle song too in interviews and has covered it at his own solo concerts. George Martin stated it was his favorite beatle song in many interviews. -Most acclaimed Beatle song by far along with Yesterday, A Day in the Life, and Hey Jude by critics and "best of" lists.
And Imagine should be one of them for lots of obvious reasons... It's sung all over the world. And lyrically it is similar "Give Peace a Chance" and has the same basic message really except musically it is a lot better and more critically/generally acclaimed.
Also, both of these songs are defenetly his top 5 musically/melodic best. Strawberry Fields Forever covers his poetry lyrics and beatle period pretty well and Imagine covers his really political blunt lyric style and solo period.
I have sources for the interviews and critic claims.
It's hard though to put scientifically how one piece of art is better than another, but aesthetically I think it's true that "Strawberry Fields Forever" was his best and most original/defining melody and "Imagine" his best solo work/social activist piece. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk • contribs)
I think we can justify any of the songs mentioned. If the article text and rationales can indeed be made to justify it, I suggest we aim for all three ("Imagine", GPAC and SFF) as replacements for the current two. I would say "Imagine" stands out as the essential, iconic, number one choice. Both GPAC and SFF are clearly good additional candidates; currently though, the article makes not a single mention of SFF. Before a sample of that song could be justified, this shortcoming would need to be addressed, so perhaps the IP editor volunteering sources above would like to provide those in any case. I've added a sample of "Imagine"; per WP:NFC we're only allowed 10%, which for "Imagine" gives us 18 seconds of a slow-tempo song—not time for many words! I think it's OK but if others want to suggest a change, no problem. I can add one for GPAC in due course; a sample already exists for SFF so it's just a matter of writing the GPAC and SFF rationales for use by this article. PL290 ( talk) 11:51, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Gimme Some Truth is not that important. Happy Xmas? You see, we'll never agree on all our personal favorites, so let's limit them to "huge societal impact" and we narrow it down to two (Woman Is The Nigger of the World not withstanding). Hotcop2 ( talk) 02:37, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
You don't need more than one lennon political song to represent lennon's political songs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 04:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
I think John's page needs a third song mentioned, I think Instant Karma! should be it. GabeMc ( talk) 21:17, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
. Why is Paul's page so top-heavey but John's is not?~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by GabeMc ( talk • contribs) 23:28, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
One of the samples should be "Strawberry Fields Forever", it is his best and most original song, right next to "Imagine" in terms of artistic merit. It should replace "Give Peace a Chance". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 05:39, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
I believe that they collaborated on some music. That is why I reverted the edits by Bobsanderson555. Andrew Gradman talk/ WP:Hornbook 06:35, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
Under personal relationships, there should be a section on Stu Sutcliffe. Yoko has said, after all, that she felt like she knew him because John spoke of him almost daily. Stu was a tremendous influence on John and their relationship was clearly one of the most important in his life.
And, I would like to kindly and respectfully ask people to look at the Epstein section one more time with an editor's eye. It is curious that more is written about his relationship with Epstein than with McCartney, and it is almost as much as is written about his relationship with Yoko. Carasch ( talk) 18:54, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
that was a weird period of his life when he just got off drugs and stuff isn't there a better picture we could use? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 00:23, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
well aesthetically you should have a better picture than this. You read an encyclopedia, they care about aesthetics and don't just post some awkward random photo of albert einstine with his eyes closed... i'm not saying we should censor the photo, put the photo on the page about his "bed for peace protest" page, but i'm just saying this photo doesn't represents him very well as a person and it looks awkward...
in other words this photo doesn't look encyclopedic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 00:51, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
That picture is just horrible. It must be the worst picture of John Lennon. It doesn't do justice to John, he looks like a patient in a mental institution. And he was such a beautiful man. I propse one of these pictures (for example): http://www.lastfm.ru/music/John+Lennon/+images/365060 http://www.lastfm.ru/music/John+Lennon/+images/313482 http://www.lastfm.ru/music/John+Lennon/+images/100099 http://www.lastfm.ru/music/John+Lennon/+images/209157 Withthebeattles ( talk) 11:10, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
Copyrighted (all). Tbhotch Talk C. 20:25, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
How do you change the picture? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.28.185 ( talk) 06:53, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
I suggest we set up automated archiving of this talk page using MiszaBot. If there are no objections I'll set it up presently. PL290 ( talk) 12:04, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I am a bit bewildered that there have apparently been some opposition to aligning the article to British English spelling, with WP:COMMONALITY being cited as the reason for keeping things as they were. As I read it, WP:COMMONALITY attempts to deal with choice of words to use, and not spelling, which is the province of WP:ENGVAR. Whilst there may be some justification to use Oxford English spelling if the first major contributor used those -iza- -ize- or -izi- forms consistently, I do not believe WP:COMMONALITY nor WP:RETAIN were intended as justification for changing 'immortalise' to 'immortalize', or 'manoeuvre' to 'maneuver', thereby being in breach of WP:ENGVAR. Ohconfucius ¡digame! 01:41, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia tries to find words that are common to all varieties of English ... Insisting on a single term or a single usage as the only correct option does not serve the purposes of an international encyclopedia.
The main focus of WP:COMMONALITY is contained in the opening statement: "Wikipedia tries to find words that are common to all varieties of English..." (emphasis added); it further elucidates that if " ...one variant spelling appears in an article name, redirect pages are made to accommodate the other variants, as with Artefact and Artifact, so that all variants can be used in searches and in linking" (emphasis added). This is the only time that WP:COMMONALITY addresses the issue of spelling. It clearly allows for variations in spelling and does not mandate the type of commonality that DocKino seems to think it does.
In addressing DocKino's claim that 'But for new articles or for ones where a predominant style has yet to be established, yes, the commonality principle guides us to use -ize. ': he is once again dead wrong. It is WP:RETAIN that specifically states that "...the variety chosen by the first major contributor should be adopted." There is nothing in WP:COMMONALITY addressing this.
I suggest that you:
Radiopathy •talk• 15:56, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
Why is Mr. Lennon's atheism not mentioned in the article, he was a very vocal critic of religion wasn't he. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.79.240 ( talk) 12:51, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
He wasn't an atheist. In his last interview for Playboy, he said, "I'm a most religious fellow." One of his last songs was "Grow Old With Me (God Bless Our Love)." Criticizing organized religion and not believing in a god are two different things. Hotcop2 ( talk) 13:08, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Sorry for the misunderstanding, I guess I only knew the well publicised "bigger than Jesus" stuff. I stand corrected.! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.78.144 ( talk) 21:10, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Mark Chapman revealed his motive for murder was a simple craving for fame and notoriety (Lennon was randomly chosen as a victim because he was accessible to the public). Chapman had drawn a list of celebrities he thought of murdering to achieve fame, Liz Taylor, Johnny Carson among others. But he found it was impossible to get close enough to kill them, so he chose Lennon. New York Authorities long suspected at Chapman's Trial that Lennon was of no consequence to Chapman other than a means to an end, and went to lengths to make this fact clear at his Trial. (Source of Chapmans Motive, New Musical Express online). Johnwrd ( talk) 12:07, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
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"Born and raised in Liverpool, Lennon became involved in the skiffle craze as a teenager, his first band, The Quarrymen, evolving into The Beatles in 1960."
The previous sentence is a run-on. It should read:
"Born and raised in Liverpool, Lennon became involved in the skiffle craze as a teenager. His first band, The Quarrymen, evolved into the The Beatles in 1960"
or
"Born and raised in Liverpool, Lennon became involved in the skiffle craze as a teenager; his first band, The Quarrymen, evolved into The Beatles in 1960." I'm not really an editor, but would like permission to make this change. Cdub42 ( talk) 19:07, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
Cjh97 ( talk) 17:36, 28 September 2010 (UTC) John Winston Ono Lennon, MBE (9 October 1940 – 8 December 1980) was an English singer-songwriter who rose to worldwide fame as one of the founding members of The Beatles, and together with Paul McCartney formed one of the most successful songwriting partnerships of the 20th century.
Born and raised in Liverpool, Lennon became involved in the skiffle craze as a teenager, his first band, The Quarrymen, evolving into The Beatles in 1960. As the group began to undergo the disintegration that led to their break-up towards the end of that decade, Lennon launched a solo career that would span the next, punctuated by critically acclaimed albums, including John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band and Imagine, and iconic songs such as "Give Peace a Chance" and "Imagine".
Lennon revealed a rebellious nature and acerbic wit in his music, his writing, on film, and in interviews, and became controversial through his work as a peace activist. He moved to New York City in 1971, where his criticism of the Vietnam War resulted in a lengthy attempt by Richard Nixon's administration to deport him, while his songs were adapted as anthems by the anti-war movement. Disengaging himself from the music business in 1975 to devote time to his family, Lennon reemerged in 1980 with a comeback album, Double Fantasy, but was murdered three weeks after its release.
Lennon's solo album sales in the United States alone stand at 14 million units,[1] and as performer, writer, or co-writer he is responsible for 27 number one singles on the US Hot 100 chart.a In 2002, a BBC poll on the 100 Greatest Britons voted him eighth, and in 2008, Rolling Stone ranked him the fifth greatest singer of all time. He was posthumously inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame in 1987 and into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1994. by connor-james hurst
His face is not showing, all that we can see is the side of his face. Someone has got to be able to change this picture. -- ChelseaChoice ( talk) 20:51, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
There was a programme on BBC Radio 4 today about John's home "Mendips" which you can listen to for the next seven days here. According to that his Aunt Mimi and her husband only acquired the house during WWII because it was unoccupied and during the war empty houses could be taken over by anyone who needed them. The Wenner tapes will also be played on BBC7 on Saturday at 9th October at 10PM Richerman ( talk) 12:45, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm confused, everyone in the US is celebrating John Lennon's 70th birthday today, October 8. But according to Wikipedia, his birthday was October 9. Can someone please clarify that for me? Thanks! Tina Kimmel ( talk) 18:28, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
happy 70th birthday -- Tony Winward ( talk) 00:05, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
Regardless of how one feels about her, it's an amazing omission. 24.5.102.149 ( talk) 17:01, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
Ryankonkolewski ( talk) 22:28, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
I know that for information to make it on to a Wikipedia page, it has to have a verifiable source. But what of using information by someone like Albert Goldman, who was known for doing sensationalistic hatchet jobs on the subjects of his tell-all biographies (like Elvis and Lennon)? Are his sources actually verifiable, or did he create things out of thin air in order to sell books? Look what is written in the Wikipedia article:
According to author Albert Goldman, Ono was regarded by Lennon as a "magical being" who could solve all his problems, but this was a "grand illusion", and she openly cheated on him with gigolos
Is it really necessary to include such nonsense in a Wikipedia entry? You might as well include The National Enquirer as a source. The truth is Goldman was an angry man with an ax to grind against people he hated. He should not be considered a "legitimate" biographer, and any passages pertaining to what Goldman says should be stricken from Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.191.24.198 ( talk) 07:45, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
"Born and raised in Liverpool, Lennon became involved in the skiffle craze as a teenager, his first band, The Quarrymen, evolving into The Beatles in 1960."
The previous sentence is a run-on. It should read:
"Born and raised in Liverpool, Lennon became involved in the skiffle craze as a teenager. His first band, The Quarrymen, evolved into the The Beatles in 1960"
or
"Born and raised in Liverpool, Lennon became involved in the skiffle craze as a teenager; his first band, The Quarrymen, evolved into The Beatles in 1960."
I'm not really an editor, but would like permission to make this change. Also, I'd like to apologize for requesting this edit on a previous thread; like I said, I'm pretty new to this. Cdub42 ( talk) 19:13, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
Semi-protection prevents edits from anonymous users (IP addresses), as well as edits from any account that is not autoconfirmed (is at least four days old and has ten or more edits to Wikipedia) or confirmed. Such users can request edits to a semi-protected page by proposing them on its talk page, using the
{{ Edit semi-protected}}
template if necessary to gain attention. They may also request the confirmed userright by visiting Requests for permissions.
Apparently, the reference 117 does not serve. Thanks.-- Beat 768 ( talk) 02:14, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
In the reference 135, What book is? There are three books of Coleman. Thanks.-- Beat 768 ( talk) 02:58, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
It's bugged me for a while that there seems to be no initiative to include the man's Official site. Can it be edited in? http://www.johnlennon.com/ -- Emperor Norton I ( talk) 05:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC)