This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
John Laurence article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Mztourist, an amateur military historian who has been active on Wikipedia since 2010, recently (Jan 2018) created a new page biography on Wikipedia of John Laurence, the former television correspondent for CBS News, ABC News, PBS and several publications including Esquire Magazine, the New York Times, the Columbia Journalism Review and others. Mr. Laurence has long been regarded by most of his colleagues as "the best television correspondent of the Vietnam War." [1] His coverage of the war received every award for broadcast journalism, and also the George Polk Memorial Award (1970) of the Overseas Press Club of America for "best reporting in any medium requiring exceptional courage and enterprise abroad." [2] Mztourist based the bulk of his information on references from Laurence's prize-winning memoir of the Vietnam War, "The Cat from Hue: a Vietnam War Story" (2002) which is 864 pages in length. From that comprehensive history of Mr. Laurence's reporting of the war, Mztourist chose only two anecdotes (out of scores covered in the book) to include on the new page: a report on the killing of allied soldiers by U.S. Marines during a battle in the A Shau Valley (1966) and the recreational use of marijuana by Mr. Laurence and a few of his young colleagues in Saigon (1965-66). Mztourist characterized the report on the killings as having caused "outrage" when it was broadcast without specifying that the only outrage was in hierarchy of the U.S. military, and the Saigon social gatherings as having consumed "large quantities of marijuana" to give the impression that Mr. Laurence was a drug addict, which he was not. Both references seem to me to be an attempt to denigrate the reputation of Mr. Laurence, who is still alive, and, by extention, his book. Every major U.S. newspaper that reviewed the book gave it highly favorable marks. [3] Attempts to edit out those Mztourist references have met with anger and hostility on his talk page, and continued accusations of my alleged attempts to "sanitise" the history. Mztourist uses references whose emphasis on "outrage" and marijuana use are, in my opinion, open to debate. Nowhere in his book does Mr. Laurence use the terms "outrage" to apply to the reaction to the allies being killed story, or "large quantities of marijuana" being consumed in Saigon. In his choice of language and editing, Mztourist appears to be an apologist for the U.S. military--a pro-military writer and interpreter of military events. While I have been reading Wikipedia since 2008, and have been a generous contributor to its funding, I am new to editing at this level. I am trying to learn the intricacies of referencing and editing correctly and in doing so have made many mistakes. It is not easy to learn. To these, Mztourist has responded with impolite criticism, sarcasm and insults. It has become now what might be considered an "edit war." I wish to end it. I have been adding, bit by bit, more relevant information about Mr. Laurence to the new page in an effort to provide a better history of his professional life. But Mztourist has been hostile to much of this. He acts like a tyrant, with no sympathy for a newcomer to editing on Wikipedia or another point of view about Mr. Laurence's reporting of the Vietnam War. Onward&Upward ( talk) 07:35, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
Adding to Mztourist being impolite, sarcastic and insulting in criticizing Onward&Upward for trying to edit the page on John Laurence impartially, we can now add cynicism, as in this newest insult: "By the way Wikipedia is completely different from WikiLeaks." Mztourist is a WikiBully. Onward&Upward ( talk) 10:53, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
References
Sorry. I didn't mean to type "Wikileaks" when I meant Wikipedia. It was an honest mistake. My apologies for calling you sarcastic for correcting me. I have been a casual reader of Wikipedia as a source of information, like an encyclopedia, for ten years, but I have never tried to use WP:RS before, nor did I understand the importance of sourcing, footnotes and the way Wikipedia works to maintain objectivity. I am still learning the guidelines for this kind of editing activity on Wikipedia, so I'd appreciate some slack. Your threat to have me blocked is very much in keeping with your bullying nature. You skip straight to the most intimidating threat you can think of, don't you? Getting a third or more opinions, using the dispute resolution procedure, or finding other solutions are not in your arsenal, are they? I find your arrogance in an otherwise civilized forum incredible. Onward&Upward ( talk) 13:45, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
User:Spotting Errors, stop whitewashing details of his marijuana usage again. Laurence referred to it himself in his book as have other sources and so it is suitable for inclusion on this page. You removed this detail back in June 2018 without explanation and now are trying to do it again. Mztourist ( talk) 13:33, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
John Laurence article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Mztourist, an amateur military historian who has been active on Wikipedia since 2010, recently (Jan 2018) created a new page biography on Wikipedia of John Laurence, the former television correspondent for CBS News, ABC News, PBS and several publications including Esquire Magazine, the New York Times, the Columbia Journalism Review and others. Mr. Laurence has long been regarded by most of his colleagues as "the best television correspondent of the Vietnam War." [1] His coverage of the war received every award for broadcast journalism, and also the George Polk Memorial Award (1970) of the Overseas Press Club of America for "best reporting in any medium requiring exceptional courage and enterprise abroad." [2] Mztourist based the bulk of his information on references from Laurence's prize-winning memoir of the Vietnam War, "The Cat from Hue: a Vietnam War Story" (2002) which is 864 pages in length. From that comprehensive history of Mr. Laurence's reporting of the war, Mztourist chose only two anecdotes (out of scores covered in the book) to include on the new page: a report on the killing of allied soldiers by U.S. Marines during a battle in the A Shau Valley (1966) and the recreational use of marijuana by Mr. Laurence and a few of his young colleagues in Saigon (1965-66). Mztourist characterized the report on the killings as having caused "outrage" when it was broadcast without specifying that the only outrage was in hierarchy of the U.S. military, and the Saigon social gatherings as having consumed "large quantities of marijuana" to give the impression that Mr. Laurence was a drug addict, which he was not. Both references seem to me to be an attempt to denigrate the reputation of Mr. Laurence, who is still alive, and, by extention, his book. Every major U.S. newspaper that reviewed the book gave it highly favorable marks. [3] Attempts to edit out those Mztourist references have met with anger and hostility on his talk page, and continued accusations of my alleged attempts to "sanitise" the history. Mztourist uses references whose emphasis on "outrage" and marijuana use are, in my opinion, open to debate. Nowhere in his book does Mr. Laurence use the terms "outrage" to apply to the reaction to the allies being killed story, or "large quantities of marijuana" being consumed in Saigon. In his choice of language and editing, Mztourist appears to be an apologist for the U.S. military--a pro-military writer and interpreter of military events. While I have been reading Wikipedia since 2008, and have been a generous contributor to its funding, I am new to editing at this level. I am trying to learn the intricacies of referencing and editing correctly and in doing so have made many mistakes. It is not easy to learn. To these, Mztourist has responded with impolite criticism, sarcasm and insults. It has become now what might be considered an "edit war." I wish to end it. I have been adding, bit by bit, more relevant information about Mr. Laurence to the new page in an effort to provide a better history of his professional life. But Mztourist has been hostile to much of this. He acts like a tyrant, with no sympathy for a newcomer to editing on Wikipedia or another point of view about Mr. Laurence's reporting of the Vietnam War. Onward&Upward ( talk) 07:35, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
Adding to Mztourist being impolite, sarcastic and insulting in criticizing Onward&Upward for trying to edit the page on John Laurence impartially, we can now add cynicism, as in this newest insult: "By the way Wikipedia is completely different from WikiLeaks." Mztourist is a WikiBully. Onward&Upward ( talk) 10:53, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
References
Sorry. I didn't mean to type "Wikileaks" when I meant Wikipedia. It was an honest mistake. My apologies for calling you sarcastic for correcting me. I have been a casual reader of Wikipedia as a source of information, like an encyclopedia, for ten years, but I have never tried to use WP:RS before, nor did I understand the importance of sourcing, footnotes and the way Wikipedia works to maintain objectivity. I am still learning the guidelines for this kind of editing activity on Wikipedia, so I'd appreciate some slack. Your threat to have me blocked is very much in keeping with your bullying nature. You skip straight to the most intimidating threat you can think of, don't you? Getting a third or more opinions, using the dispute resolution procedure, or finding other solutions are not in your arsenal, are they? I find your arrogance in an otherwise civilized forum incredible. Onward&Upward ( talk) 13:45, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
User:Spotting Errors, stop whitewashing details of his marijuana usage again. Laurence referred to it himself in his book as have other sources and so it is suitable for inclusion on this page. You removed this detail back in June 2018 without explanation and now are trying to do it again. Mztourist ( talk) 13:33, 29 December 2021 (UTC)