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I'm not sure why I even start to write on a topic discussed and explained times and times again to nationalist editors. Look, there was no Macedonian political entity up until the XX century; there was no mention of such an ethnicity up to the that time. So how could you claim that the guy was an ethnic (mind you ethnic) Macedonian. Sorry, this is a no do. The encyclopaedia doesn't really care what a couple of hardline nationalists think of him. -- Laveol T 21:18, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
The Romanian government themselves state Macedonian migration since the 11th century, same as Russian documents showing Macedonian immigration in Russia in 1763-1765 from "Voprosy istorii" 1988-04-30VPI-No. 004, pages 174-180? I know its hard for you guys to understand with your pre-determined judgements that Macedonians existed, but they were there. Mactruth ( talk) 23:41, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Like I stated, sources are used. I wouldnt consider Robert Elsie nationalistic would you? Mactruth ( talk) 23:43, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
You are too eager to trace the origin of Kokuzeli's mother and not the obvious fact that he was born and grew up in Albania , which in every society would make hime Albanian Byzantine,e.g. a child born from Greek immigrant parents in the USA is considered an american.-- Lceliku ( talk) 17:35, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
and as per Angelopoulos the Boulgara is composed by Glykis and not Kukuzeli. I do not want to get into your nationalistic bullshit and I am not a historian byzantologist , so I leave it to you big experts to use all your talent and reinvent the wheel. No one is even sure if he really exists or it is just a legend.-- 74.59.88.57 ( talk) 00:30, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
I hope the current version is acceptable to all sides. Quite clearly, Kukuzelis belonged to the Byzantine musical tradition and was active in Byzantium. The only contemporary or almost-contemporary sources we have (to my knowledge these are his hagiography and the name of Polieleion of the Bulgarian Woman) identify him as Bulgarian by descent. I don't think any of you can deny that the guy had little to do with Albanians or the Albanian language and that he had no idea what a Macedonian language would be, simply because it came to be 550–600 years after his death. Sure enough, though, sources from Albania and the Republic of Macedonia claim the guy as their own, so why not mention this.
I'd say you bring your complaints to this page, not to edit summaries :) Thanks, Todor → Bozhinov 21:31, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Slav Macedonian identity emerged in the 20th. cent. This man lived 1000 years ago. It is fringe and unrealistic view, that he was Macedonian Slav. At that time Macedonia was a Byzantine thema in today Turkey. I have removed this nonsence. Jingby ( talk) 18:38, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
However, neither ethnic Macedonian, nor Macedonian Slav, or Macedonoid identity existed then on the Balkans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jingiby ( talk • contribs) 19:09, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Not correct info in the page Macedonian Slav orgin can misleads to Macedonians (ethnic group). Stop reverting the more accurately- Robert Elsie generalizes him as being Slav from Macedonia (region). Pensionero 15:00, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
I have copied this information [1] for Kukuzelis' last name from the original placed source Orthodox America. You can see it here [2]. I will polite ask you why the info was deleted from the article? Pensionero 18:29, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
Jingi, you know, the world knows and everyone knows that all three (Macedonian, Bulgarian and Albanian) were created in 1800s. The only language from 11 century until 19 century was Old Church Slavonic. Therefore, stop relying on the phrase "Macedonian language was created 1000 years later", because the same goes for BG. The states are totally irrelevant. I added Macedonian because some relevant scholars think Jovan Kukuzel as Macedonian. -- MacedonianBoy ( talk) 09:01, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
I think, this was a kind of joke. Full stop. Jingiby ( talk) 17:17, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
My sources clarify that according to mainstream scholarship his father was an Albanian but his mother was a Bulgarian. Where is the problem here? I replaced pro Bulgarians with mainstream historians. Also, my sources are of recent years so subscribe on a library or buy them. Korintiku ( talk) 19:47, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
It is hard to find information about Kukuzeli even though he was a leading figure of Byzantine art and culture. His mother was a Bulgarian and his father's origin isn't discussed so much as he was an Albanian born in Albania. There is nothing to speak about the origin of an Albanian born in Albania, but it worths to speak about the origin of a Bulgarian who lives in Albania. Korintiku ( talk) 18:20, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
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I'm not sure why I even start to write on a topic discussed and explained times and times again to nationalist editors. Look, there was no Macedonian political entity up until the XX century; there was no mention of such an ethnicity up to the that time. So how could you claim that the guy was an ethnic (mind you ethnic) Macedonian. Sorry, this is a no do. The encyclopaedia doesn't really care what a couple of hardline nationalists think of him. -- Laveol T 21:18, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
The Romanian government themselves state Macedonian migration since the 11th century, same as Russian documents showing Macedonian immigration in Russia in 1763-1765 from "Voprosy istorii" 1988-04-30VPI-No. 004, pages 174-180? I know its hard for you guys to understand with your pre-determined judgements that Macedonians existed, but they were there. Mactruth ( talk) 23:41, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Like I stated, sources are used. I wouldnt consider Robert Elsie nationalistic would you? Mactruth ( talk) 23:43, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
You are too eager to trace the origin of Kokuzeli's mother and not the obvious fact that he was born and grew up in Albania , which in every society would make hime Albanian Byzantine,e.g. a child born from Greek immigrant parents in the USA is considered an american.-- Lceliku ( talk) 17:35, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
and as per Angelopoulos the Boulgara is composed by Glykis and not Kukuzeli. I do not want to get into your nationalistic bullshit and I am not a historian byzantologist , so I leave it to you big experts to use all your talent and reinvent the wheel. No one is even sure if he really exists or it is just a legend.-- 74.59.88.57 ( talk) 00:30, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
I hope the current version is acceptable to all sides. Quite clearly, Kukuzelis belonged to the Byzantine musical tradition and was active in Byzantium. The only contemporary or almost-contemporary sources we have (to my knowledge these are his hagiography and the name of Polieleion of the Bulgarian Woman) identify him as Bulgarian by descent. I don't think any of you can deny that the guy had little to do with Albanians or the Albanian language and that he had no idea what a Macedonian language would be, simply because it came to be 550–600 years after his death. Sure enough, though, sources from Albania and the Republic of Macedonia claim the guy as their own, so why not mention this.
I'd say you bring your complaints to this page, not to edit summaries :) Thanks, Todor → Bozhinov 21:31, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Slav Macedonian identity emerged in the 20th. cent. This man lived 1000 years ago. It is fringe and unrealistic view, that he was Macedonian Slav. At that time Macedonia was a Byzantine thema in today Turkey. I have removed this nonsence. Jingby ( talk) 18:38, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
However, neither ethnic Macedonian, nor Macedonian Slav, or Macedonoid identity existed then on the Balkans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jingiby ( talk • contribs) 19:09, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Not correct info in the page Macedonian Slav orgin can misleads to Macedonians (ethnic group). Stop reverting the more accurately- Robert Elsie generalizes him as being Slav from Macedonia (region). Pensionero 15:00, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
I have copied this information [1] for Kukuzelis' last name from the original placed source Orthodox America. You can see it here [2]. I will polite ask you why the info was deleted from the article? Pensionero 18:29, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
Jingi, you know, the world knows and everyone knows that all three (Macedonian, Bulgarian and Albanian) were created in 1800s. The only language from 11 century until 19 century was Old Church Slavonic. Therefore, stop relying on the phrase "Macedonian language was created 1000 years later", because the same goes for BG. The states are totally irrelevant. I added Macedonian because some relevant scholars think Jovan Kukuzel as Macedonian. -- MacedonianBoy ( talk) 09:01, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
I think, this was a kind of joke. Full stop. Jingiby ( talk) 17:17, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
My sources clarify that according to mainstream scholarship his father was an Albanian but his mother was a Bulgarian. Where is the problem here? I replaced pro Bulgarians with mainstream historians. Also, my sources are of recent years so subscribe on a library or buy them. Korintiku ( talk) 19:47, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
It is hard to find information about Kukuzeli even though he was a leading figure of Byzantine art and culture. His mother was a Bulgarian and his father's origin isn't discussed so much as he was an Albanian born in Albania. There is nothing to speak about the origin of an Albanian born in Albania, but it worths to speak about the origin of a Bulgarian who lives in Albania. Korintiku ( talk) 18:20, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on John Koukouzelis. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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