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John Jervis, 1st Earl of St Vincent article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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While I am thinking about it, before we nominate this for GA review or FA review, you will need to rewrite and expand the lead according to the recommendations at WP:Lead, so this lead should be at least 2-3 paragraphs. Sadads ( talk) 12:26, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
In my area there is a disagreement on how to pronounce Cape Jervis, which is named after him. How was his name pronounced in the UK in his lifetime, and now? Is it pronounced "Jervis" or "Jarvis"? Should I take the lack of explanation as an endorsement of the more obvious pronunciation? Thank you -- 219.90.217.247 ( talk) 05:31, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Being English I have always pronounced it "Jarvis" rather than "Jervis". His nickname was "Old Jarvie" and a Jarvie or Jarvey was the nickname for a coachman and that was pronounced with an "a" sound so I imagine the two were quite close in their pronunciation. I could of course be wrong. Corneredmouse ( talk) 08:48, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Jervis is pronounced Jervis. I am a descendant of John Jervis's sister Mary Ricketts and there are currently about 100 living descendants of Mary Ricketts of whom about 50 have the name of Jervis or Parker-Jervis. Mary Ricketts started life as Mary Jervis, then married Ricketts and so became Mrs Ricketts. On the death of John Jervis the children of Mary Ricketts became Jervis and some of her descendants became Parker-Jervis as well. John Jervis had no known children of his own so the name and title went to Mary Ricketts descendants. I hope that helps. There is much more information in Burke's Peerage.
The BBC Pronouncing Dictionary of British Names does not say "Jervis": https://postimg.org/image/fpkookd55/
Reviewer: Magic ♪piano 20:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
A few preliminary items:
More to come, possibly tomorrow. Magic ♪piano 02:16, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, Corneredmouse ( talk) 10:02, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
I've editted File:Howe's relief of gibraltar.jpg Is this ok? Thanks, Corneredmouse ( talk) 18:37, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
-- Magic ♪piano 00:54, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Additional items that cropped up during copyediting:
I'll hold the review until you have time to deal with them. Magic ♪piano 02:12, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
You're right about a too positive attitude. I felt that jervis had been somewhat maligned as a result of the o'brian books and championed him. Possibly too much. Other points like the style if prose are also something I'm happy to work on before you either award or reject GA status. I'm a little busy right now though as my son was born this morning. I shall take a stab at some further edits next week. Cheers, Corneredmouse ( talk) 14:54, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to wind this review down. I fixed a few minor outstanding issues, but there some bare URL citations, and at least one bare-linked URL in the text that ought to be converted to {{ cite web}} (or in the case of at least one of the cites, {{ cite book}}). Can these be fixed soon? Magic ♪piano 13:55, 29 September 2010 (UTC) I think I've done them all now. You may as well close out the review. I'm finding it harder and harder to get things done on wikipedia and as pleased as I am with this article I'm aware that it needs a finessing that I don't have the skill or the time to accomplish. I guess you'll just have to mark my work now and I'll accept whatever grade I get. Thanks for all the copyedit, help, opinion, and general goodwill and effort you've put in. It has enriched my wikipedia experience and taught me an awful lot. I'm grateful and I hope that we cross paths again. Should you ever need help on a project, let me know and if I can, I will. All the best, Ian Corneredmouse ( talk) 15:20, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I've a few minor queries I'd like to raise about this article. I've only been through the second half of it:
Benea ( talk) 23:38, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
I was hoping I could make the point, seeing as this is hoping to go to A-Class Review soon, that the Battle of Cape Saint Vincent actually doesn't have a description of the Battle. This rather confused me, as I would think it quite a neccessary requirement. Of course you can go to the battle's actual article, but I think a summary of it, and how Jervis directed and won it, would be a requirement even to get to GA. Skinny87 ( talk) 17:51, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
The term Victualling was part the official title of the Victualling Board that supplied the Navy with food. Victualler was also the term used for the supply ships that served the blockade fleet off Brest. Sutler was the equivalent term for army suppliers, but that was not used by the Navy. I don't think that we should use sutler here but maybe adjust the definition of Victualler in Wikipedia. Dabbler ( talk) 10:43, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:John Jervis, 1st Earl of St Vincent/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Some details on his earliy life would help to flesh out his character. Also, some citations to support the info on his military career would add weight to the article. Coemgenus 21:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 21:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 20:14, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Is the lack of a period after St a typo found throughout the article or the actual spelling? Yourlocallordandsavior ( talk) 02:52, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
As discussed in the reviews above but presumably not addressed or reinserted,
in the intro is still much too positive for the guy who was toasted by his men's wives with "May his next glass of wine choke the wretch". He was a martinet who was not generally liked by all of his men. He won battles and his men appreciated that. Both things can be true.
Then again, apparently the guy's family is here editing the page. Presumably it would be an uphill battle keeping the article appropriately NPOV instead of the overly sunny current text. Good luck. — LlywelynII 03:30, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
Under the heading "Resumption of command" the first sentence reads "On 9 November 1805 St Vincent was promoted admiral of the red" (emphasis added). No explanation is given as to what "Admiral of the red" means. Can anyone disambiguate this? Bricology ( talk) 18:42, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
John Jervis, 1st Earl of St Vincent article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
John Jervis, 1st Earl of St Vincent has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on March 13, 2022. |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
While I am thinking about it, before we nominate this for GA review or FA review, you will need to rewrite and expand the lead according to the recommendations at WP:Lead, so this lead should be at least 2-3 paragraphs. Sadads ( talk) 12:26, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
In my area there is a disagreement on how to pronounce Cape Jervis, which is named after him. How was his name pronounced in the UK in his lifetime, and now? Is it pronounced "Jervis" or "Jarvis"? Should I take the lack of explanation as an endorsement of the more obvious pronunciation? Thank you -- 219.90.217.247 ( talk) 05:31, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Being English I have always pronounced it "Jarvis" rather than "Jervis". His nickname was "Old Jarvie" and a Jarvie or Jarvey was the nickname for a coachman and that was pronounced with an "a" sound so I imagine the two were quite close in their pronunciation. I could of course be wrong. Corneredmouse ( talk) 08:48, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Jervis is pronounced Jervis. I am a descendant of John Jervis's sister Mary Ricketts and there are currently about 100 living descendants of Mary Ricketts of whom about 50 have the name of Jervis or Parker-Jervis. Mary Ricketts started life as Mary Jervis, then married Ricketts and so became Mrs Ricketts. On the death of John Jervis the children of Mary Ricketts became Jervis and some of her descendants became Parker-Jervis as well. John Jervis had no known children of his own so the name and title went to Mary Ricketts descendants. I hope that helps. There is much more information in Burke's Peerage.
The BBC Pronouncing Dictionary of British Names does not say "Jervis": https://postimg.org/image/fpkookd55/
Reviewer: Magic ♪piano 20:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
A few preliminary items:
More to come, possibly tomorrow. Magic ♪piano 02:16, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, Corneredmouse ( talk) 10:02, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
I've editted File:Howe's relief of gibraltar.jpg Is this ok? Thanks, Corneredmouse ( talk) 18:37, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
-- Magic ♪piano 00:54, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Additional items that cropped up during copyediting:
I'll hold the review until you have time to deal with them. Magic ♪piano 02:12, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
You're right about a too positive attitude. I felt that jervis had been somewhat maligned as a result of the o'brian books and championed him. Possibly too much. Other points like the style if prose are also something I'm happy to work on before you either award or reject GA status. I'm a little busy right now though as my son was born this morning. I shall take a stab at some further edits next week. Cheers, Corneredmouse ( talk) 14:54, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to wind this review down. I fixed a few minor outstanding issues, but there some bare URL citations, and at least one bare-linked URL in the text that ought to be converted to {{ cite web}} (or in the case of at least one of the cites, {{ cite book}}). Can these be fixed soon? Magic ♪piano 13:55, 29 September 2010 (UTC) I think I've done them all now. You may as well close out the review. I'm finding it harder and harder to get things done on wikipedia and as pleased as I am with this article I'm aware that it needs a finessing that I don't have the skill or the time to accomplish. I guess you'll just have to mark my work now and I'll accept whatever grade I get. Thanks for all the copyedit, help, opinion, and general goodwill and effort you've put in. It has enriched my wikipedia experience and taught me an awful lot. I'm grateful and I hope that we cross paths again. Should you ever need help on a project, let me know and if I can, I will. All the best, Ian Corneredmouse ( talk) 15:20, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I've a few minor queries I'd like to raise about this article. I've only been through the second half of it:
Benea ( talk) 23:38, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
I was hoping I could make the point, seeing as this is hoping to go to A-Class Review soon, that the Battle of Cape Saint Vincent actually doesn't have a description of the Battle. This rather confused me, as I would think it quite a neccessary requirement. Of course you can go to the battle's actual article, but I think a summary of it, and how Jervis directed and won it, would be a requirement even to get to GA. Skinny87 ( talk) 17:51, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
The term Victualling was part the official title of the Victualling Board that supplied the Navy with food. Victualler was also the term used for the supply ships that served the blockade fleet off Brest. Sutler was the equivalent term for army suppliers, but that was not used by the Navy. I don't think that we should use sutler here but maybe adjust the definition of Victualler in Wikipedia. Dabbler ( talk) 10:43, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:John Jervis, 1st Earl of St Vincent/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Some details on his earliy life would help to flesh out his character. Also, some citations to support the info on his military career would add weight to the article. Coemgenus 21:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 21:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 20:14, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Is the lack of a period after St a typo found throughout the article or the actual spelling? Yourlocallordandsavior ( talk) 02:52, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
As discussed in the reviews above but presumably not addressed or reinserted,
in the intro is still much too positive for the guy who was toasted by his men's wives with "May his next glass of wine choke the wretch". He was a martinet who was not generally liked by all of his men. He won battles and his men appreciated that. Both things can be true.
Then again, apparently the guy's family is here editing the page. Presumably it would be an uphill battle keeping the article appropriately NPOV instead of the overly sunny current text. Good luck. — LlywelynII 03:30, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
Under the heading "Resumption of command" the first sentence reads "On 9 November 1805 St Vincent was promoted admiral of the red" (emphasis added). No explanation is given as to what "Admiral of the red" means. Can anyone disambiguate this? Bricology ( talk) 18:42, 17 May 2023 (UTC)