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I'm not sure that the above is true; I've found other information elsewhere, so until someone can confirm where Irving actually studied, I'll move it to the talk page. Here's what I found:
I don't know which one is true. MikeCapone 06:28, Apr 26, 2004 (UTC)
There seems to be disagreement about his early life (prior to his adoption and name change), viz.
John Irving was actually born with the name John Blunt, and was later changed to Irving when his mother remarried.
The Dictionary of Literary Biography offers additional details:
"...John Irving was born in Exeter, New Hampshire, on 2 March 1942. His birth name was John Wallace Blunt Jr., in honor of his biological father, a World War II flyer who was shot down over Burma. Irving's mother, Frances Winslow Irving, legally changed his name to John Winslow Irving when he was six years old after he had been adopted by her second husband, Colin F. N. Irving..."
Another take on the story is provided by the Wikipedia entry on John Irving:
... "...John Irving was born John Wallace Blunt, Jr. in Exeter, New Hampshire. His mother Helen, a descendant of the Winslows, one of New England's oldest and most distinguished families, divorced Irving's biological father, an airman serving in the pacific, when Irving was two years old. The family maintained a strict silence regarding his natural father. When her son was six years old, Helen Winslow married Colin F.N. Irving, a Russian History teacher at the prestigious Phillips Exeter Academy. John Wallace Blunt, Jr. was adopted by Colin Irving and became John Winslow Irving in name..."
This comes from here, and is quoting an earlier version of the WP article. Some clarification would be nice! -- Slowmover 15:02, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
I found it very strange that the article does not mention the autobiographical The Imaginary Girlfriend , which was published in 2002 ( http://www.powells.com/biblio?show=TRADE%20PAPER:USED:0345458265:6.95).
Fls 12:44, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
I have added information about the Imaginary Girlfriend (under other projects) and the children's book A Sound Like Someone Trying Not to Make a Sound (among the novels). I have no information about how these books were received by critics or the audience, though.
Fls 10:44, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
While I think the Fourth Hand deserved to be "savaged by critics", there is some evidence that it wasn't. The following site -- http://www.powells.com/biblio/17-0375506276-3 -- includes some excerpts from half a dozen quality reviews (including one from Richard Eder of The New York Times Book Review) who seem to give the book a largely positive review.
Should the claim be substantiated by a reference or two? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.77.36.219 ( talk) 03:27, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
I am wondering if the spellings "begining", "sentance", "books" [instead of book's], "pulication" and "semicolin" in one of the Irving quotes are satirically intentional misspellings or not? Sorry for asking but I'm not an English native speaker. Wikipedia has masses of (unintentional) misspellings everywhere but when they occur in a quote one supposes they are original and intentional. 82.212.50.163 16:18, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Hey yall! there's a good John Irving video and he's being interviewed by Ernie Manouse...
go to: www.houstonpbs.org/InnerVIEWS
scroll down and look on the right side. there are other great celebrity interviews too! You can also buy any of the interviews. check it out! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fleetswimmer ( talk • contribs) 20:22, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
One theme not already in the discussion is that of unusually small people or dwarfs, also having some extraordinary abilities of empathy, insight, or wisdom. Hotel New Hampshire, Owen Meany, and Son of the Circus all have such characters... I haven't read over half of his body of work, but I'll bet that a similar character appears in some of his other books too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cheesegunner ( talk • contribs) 05:01, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
May I suggest that the Boarding School be included as a recurring theme in the table shown in the article? I am not knowledgeable enough to complete it, but maybe someone else can help. Arved Deecke ( talk) 22:15, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
along with the other sexual variants mentioned, perhaps oral sex should be mentioned. It is quite important in Garp and keeps occuring in a number of other novels (Til I find You, Last Night at Twisted River, etc) ( 79.190.69.142 ( talk) 22:56, 27 December 2009 (UTC))
Heavy kudos to whoever did the table of recurring themes. If you've ever thought that John Irving has been writing essentially the same book for forty bleedin' years, you now have scientific proof. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.86.13.230 ( talk) 17:01, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
Weren't Owen Meany and/or the narrator in wrestling at school? Tcdpenn ( talk) 22:09, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
In addition to New England, Canada (Toronto) has popped up in quite a number of books. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.230.185 ( talk) 06:26, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
This article has been reverted by a bot to this version as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) This has been done to remove User:Accotink2's contributions as they have a history of extensive copyright violation and so it is assumed that all of their major contributions are copyright violations. Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. VWBot ( talk) 13:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
I've read all the books... I'm finding myself doubting the accuracy of the table of themes. Even if it is accurate, I think it most likely it is original research. Is there a source which sets out/cross references themes on which the table is based? If so, could it please be linked? TheOverflow ( talk) 05:13, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
John Irving is aware of this table. It was discussed when he played 'Not My Job' on NPR's "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" (16 June 2012). He and the host Peter Sagal laughed it off, but Irving did say it was a "fair list of what I would call superficial details." For a section on "recurring subjects," this table illustrates the repetition of themes more effectively than the text itself, and any reader who raises inaccuracies should feel free to edit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.110.241.2 ( talk) 16:13, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
In my view, all of the table is OR. You say,"if these are not immediately evident to an untrained observer, I'd agree." I would go even further that even selecting themes that are evident to readers of the novels would be OR. The table makes a statement, which is that there are certain recurring themes in Irving's books. This is a conclusion that requires detailed knowledge of the novels, collecting the themes or topics in them, and establishing which ones show overlap among the novels. That's clearly research. And since there is no source given such as, for example, a literary expose of Irving's work, it's OR. Finding an appropriate source(s) maybe the way to go, but given the specific content in this table, that could be a bit of a tall order. Malljaja ( talk) 01:39, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Title | New England | Sex workers | Wrestling | Vienna | Bears | Deadly accident | Absent Parent | Film-making / Screen Writing | Writers | Sexual variations |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Setting Free the Bears | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
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The Water-Method Man | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
adultery | |||
The 158-Pound Marriage | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
swinging, ménage à trois, adultery | |||||
The World According to Garp | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
asexuality, rape, pedophilia, transsexualism, swinging, adultery | |
The Hotel New Hampshire | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
rape, gang rape, older woman/younger man, incest, homosexuality, lesbianism, bestiality |
The Cider House Rules | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
buggery, lesbianism, adultery, rape, incest, bestiality | ||
A Prayer for Owen Meany | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
asexuality, incestuous desires | |||
A Son of the Circus | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
transsexualism, homosexuality | |||
A Widow for One Year | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
older woman/younger man, rape, lesbianism | ||||
The Fourth Hand | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
older woman/younger man | |||||
Until I Find You | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
older woman/younger man, lesbianism, pedophilia, cross-dressing | |
Last Night in Twisted River | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
older woman/younger man, ménage à trois | |
In One Person | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
bisexuality, transsexualism, older woman/younger man, incest, lesbianism, cross-dressing, homosexuality, bears/gay males |
The National Public Radio show "wait wait, don't tell me" has a transcript of the author discussing this:
PETER SAGAL, HOST: We found a chart on your Wikipedia page. I don't know if you've ever looked at it.
JOHN IRVING: That's true.
SAGAL: On the Wikipedia page, somebody has developed a chart of all of your novels and lists of themes and checkmarks for the theme.
IRVING: Oh yeah, somebody sent that to me, actually. I didn't know where it came from.
SAGAL: The themes are, and these are the ones: New England, sex workers, wrestling, Vienna, bears, deadly accidents and absent parents are on the list. Are there any others that are missing? We kind of imagine you there with a checklist, checking them off yourself as you went through it.
IRVING: Well, you know, that's a fair list of what I would call superficial details.
SAGAL: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
This is an encyclopedia, not a list of superficial details. Jonathunder ( talk) 02:57, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
I: I completely disagree with your assessment. Just because no one came up with these lists for Dickens or Shakespeare doesn't mean they wouldn't be interesting additions to the entry. Additionally, just because the author - who was put on the spot on a comedic radio program - said they are superficial details doesn't diminish the fact that they are recurring themes in his books. Blueshoc12 ( talk) 18:16, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
John Irving article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article has been
mentioned by a media organization:
|
![]() | This article has been
mentioned by a media organization:
|
I'm not sure that the above is true; I've found other information elsewhere, so until someone can confirm where Irving actually studied, I'll move it to the talk page. Here's what I found:
I don't know which one is true. MikeCapone 06:28, Apr 26, 2004 (UTC)
There seems to be disagreement about his early life (prior to his adoption and name change), viz.
John Irving was actually born with the name John Blunt, and was later changed to Irving when his mother remarried.
The Dictionary of Literary Biography offers additional details:
"...John Irving was born in Exeter, New Hampshire, on 2 March 1942. His birth name was John Wallace Blunt Jr., in honor of his biological father, a World War II flyer who was shot down over Burma. Irving's mother, Frances Winslow Irving, legally changed his name to John Winslow Irving when he was six years old after he had been adopted by her second husband, Colin F. N. Irving..."
Another take on the story is provided by the Wikipedia entry on John Irving:
... "...John Irving was born John Wallace Blunt, Jr. in Exeter, New Hampshire. His mother Helen, a descendant of the Winslows, one of New England's oldest and most distinguished families, divorced Irving's biological father, an airman serving in the pacific, when Irving was two years old. The family maintained a strict silence regarding his natural father. When her son was six years old, Helen Winslow married Colin F.N. Irving, a Russian History teacher at the prestigious Phillips Exeter Academy. John Wallace Blunt, Jr. was adopted by Colin Irving and became John Winslow Irving in name..."
This comes from here, and is quoting an earlier version of the WP article. Some clarification would be nice! -- Slowmover 15:02, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
I found it very strange that the article does not mention the autobiographical The Imaginary Girlfriend , which was published in 2002 ( http://www.powells.com/biblio?show=TRADE%20PAPER:USED:0345458265:6.95).
Fls 12:44, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
I have added information about the Imaginary Girlfriend (under other projects) and the children's book A Sound Like Someone Trying Not to Make a Sound (among the novels). I have no information about how these books were received by critics or the audience, though.
Fls 10:44, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
While I think the Fourth Hand deserved to be "savaged by critics", there is some evidence that it wasn't. The following site -- http://www.powells.com/biblio/17-0375506276-3 -- includes some excerpts from half a dozen quality reviews (including one from Richard Eder of The New York Times Book Review) who seem to give the book a largely positive review.
Should the claim be substantiated by a reference or two? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.77.36.219 ( talk) 03:27, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
I am wondering if the spellings "begining", "sentance", "books" [instead of book's], "pulication" and "semicolin" in one of the Irving quotes are satirically intentional misspellings or not? Sorry for asking but I'm not an English native speaker. Wikipedia has masses of (unintentional) misspellings everywhere but when they occur in a quote one supposes they are original and intentional. 82.212.50.163 16:18, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Hey yall! there's a good John Irving video and he's being interviewed by Ernie Manouse...
go to: www.houstonpbs.org/InnerVIEWS
scroll down and look on the right side. there are other great celebrity interviews too! You can also buy any of the interviews. check it out! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fleetswimmer ( talk • contribs) 20:22, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
One theme not already in the discussion is that of unusually small people or dwarfs, also having some extraordinary abilities of empathy, insight, or wisdom. Hotel New Hampshire, Owen Meany, and Son of the Circus all have such characters... I haven't read over half of his body of work, but I'll bet that a similar character appears in some of his other books too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cheesegunner ( talk • contribs) 05:01, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
May I suggest that the Boarding School be included as a recurring theme in the table shown in the article? I am not knowledgeable enough to complete it, but maybe someone else can help. Arved Deecke ( talk) 22:15, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
along with the other sexual variants mentioned, perhaps oral sex should be mentioned. It is quite important in Garp and keeps occuring in a number of other novels (Til I find You, Last Night at Twisted River, etc) ( 79.190.69.142 ( talk) 22:56, 27 December 2009 (UTC))
Heavy kudos to whoever did the table of recurring themes. If you've ever thought that John Irving has been writing essentially the same book for forty bleedin' years, you now have scientific proof. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.86.13.230 ( talk) 17:01, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
Weren't Owen Meany and/or the narrator in wrestling at school? Tcdpenn ( talk) 22:09, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
In addition to New England, Canada (Toronto) has popped up in quite a number of books. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.230.185 ( talk) 06:26, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
This article has been reverted by a bot to this version as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) This has been done to remove User:Accotink2's contributions as they have a history of extensive copyright violation and so it is assumed that all of their major contributions are copyright violations. Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. VWBot ( talk) 13:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
I've read all the books... I'm finding myself doubting the accuracy of the table of themes. Even if it is accurate, I think it most likely it is original research. Is there a source which sets out/cross references themes on which the table is based? If so, could it please be linked? TheOverflow ( talk) 05:13, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
John Irving is aware of this table. It was discussed when he played 'Not My Job' on NPR's "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" (16 June 2012). He and the host Peter Sagal laughed it off, but Irving did say it was a "fair list of what I would call superficial details." For a section on "recurring subjects," this table illustrates the repetition of themes more effectively than the text itself, and any reader who raises inaccuracies should feel free to edit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.110.241.2 ( talk) 16:13, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
In my view, all of the table is OR. You say,"if these are not immediately evident to an untrained observer, I'd agree." I would go even further that even selecting themes that are evident to readers of the novels would be OR. The table makes a statement, which is that there are certain recurring themes in Irving's books. This is a conclusion that requires detailed knowledge of the novels, collecting the themes or topics in them, and establishing which ones show overlap among the novels. That's clearly research. And since there is no source given such as, for example, a literary expose of Irving's work, it's OR. Finding an appropriate source(s) maybe the way to go, but given the specific content in this table, that could be a bit of a tall order. Malljaja ( talk) 01:39, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Title | New England | Sex workers | Wrestling | Vienna | Bears | Deadly accident | Absent Parent | Film-making / Screen Writing | Writers | Sexual variations |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Setting Free the Bears | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|||||
The Water-Method Man | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
adultery | |||
The 158-Pound Marriage | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
swinging, ménage à trois, adultery | |||||
The World According to Garp | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
asexuality, rape, pedophilia, transsexualism, swinging, adultery | |
The Hotel New Hampshire | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
rape, gang rape, older woman/younger man, incest, homosexuality, lesbianism, bestiality |
The Cider House Rules | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
buggery, lesbianism, adultery, rape, incest, bestiality | ||
A Prayer for Owen Meany | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
asexuality, incestuous desires | |||
A Son of the Circus | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
transsexualism, homosexuality | |||
A Widow for One Year | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
older woman/younger man, rape, lesbianism | ||||
The Fourth Hand | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
older woman/younger man | |||||
Until I Find You | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
older woman/younger man, lesbianism, pedophilia, cross-dressing | |
Last Night in Twisted River | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
older woman/younger man, ménage à trois | |
In One Person | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
bisexuality, transsexualism, older woman/younger man, incest, lesbianism, cross-dressing, homosexuality, bears/gay males |
The National Public Radio show "wait wait, don't tell me" has a transcript of the author discussing this:
PETER SAGAL, HOST: We found a chart on your Wikipedia page. I don't know if you've ever looked at it.
JOHN IRVING: That's true.
SAGAL: On the Wikipedia page, somebody has developed a chart of all of your novels and lists of themes and checkmarks for the theme.
IRVING: Oh yeah, somebody sent that to me, actually. I didn't know where it came from.
SAGAL: The themes are, and these are the ones: New England, sex workers, wrestling, Vienna, bears, deadly accidents and absent parents are on the list. Are there any others that are missing? We kind of imagine you there with a checklist, checking them off yourself as you went through it.
IRVING: Well, you know, that's a fair list of what I would call superficial details.
SAGAL: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
This is an encyclopedia, not a list of superficial details. Jonathunder ( talk) 02:57, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
I: I completely disagree with your assessment. Just because no one came up with these lists for Dickens or Shakespeare doesn't mean they wouldn't be interesting additions to the entry. Additionally, just because the author - who was put on the spot on a comedic radio program - said they are superficial details doesn't diminish the fact that they are recurring themes in his books. Blueshoc12 ( talk) 18:16, 23 January 2015 (UTC)