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The article currently states, "Hunyadi's year of birth is uncertain. Although Gáspár Heltai writes that Hunyadi was born in 1390, he must have actually been born between around 1405 and 1407, because his younger brother was only born after 1409, and a difference of almost two decades between the two brothers' age is not plausible." The assertion that the brothers could not have been born 19 years apart is surprising without further explanation. While mother and infant survival rates were low in Mediaeval Europe, contraception was unreliable at best. In the absence of reliable contraception, women tend to have their first child when they are younger than women using contraception, and their last child when they are older. Women tend to be fertile from their mid teens, and tend to reach menopause anywhere between their late thirties and their late 50s. A nineteen year span between eldest and youngest sibling is not unknown today, and would also have been plausible in Mediaeval Europe. Marynz ( talk) 06:39, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
Hi Ninhursag3!
[1] I see the intention that you try several times rewrite the topic and emphasize several times that "Hunyadi was Romanian" make the article biased and exclusively present the Romanian viewpoint as fact, however the majority of Hungarian historiography say he was not Romanian. It is quite boring topic regarding John Hunyadi considers a great Hungarian hero and clearly a main character in Hungarian history and not in Romanian history.
John Hunyadi and his son King Matthias of Hungary played a great and very important role in the life of the Kingdom of Hungary. The father of John Hunyadi got a huge estate from King Sigismund of Hungary. The father of John Hunyadi was called Voyk, the pagan Turkic name of King Saint Stephen of Hungary was also Vajk 400 years earlier (perhaps he was also Romanian?). The mother of John Hunyadi was called Elizabeth a Catholic Hungarian name. The sister of John Hunyadi had also a Catholic Hungarian name. John Hunyadi was born and raised in the Kingdom of Hungary, Hunyadi became very quickly a high-ranked member of the court of King Sigismund of Hungary. King Sigismund entrusted the military upbringing of young John to his main confidant. King Sigismund took John Hunyadi with him everywhere in Europe and also to Italy for one of the most significant events of his life, in Rome at the Imperial Coronation. John Hunyadi married a Catholic Hungarian noblewoman, Hunyadi considered himself a Hungarian nobleman, lived and died in 1456 according to this. Hunyadi was a leading Hungarian military and political figure, Hunyadi was the Count of Székelys, Voivode of Transylvania (part of the Kingdom of Hungary). John Hunyadi was a great Hungarian warlord and sole regent with the title of governor of the Hungarian Kingdom. John Hunyadi had huge estates everywhere in the Kingdom of Hungary and used all his income to protect Hungary against the Ottomans.
At that time around 1400, Romanian etnicity or modern etnicities did not exist. It was several times discussed in the article. The article clearly say most contemporary sources claim that his father was a nobleman from Wallachia, which was presented in the article ("he was the member of a noble family of Wallachian ancestry") before you rewrote. All medieval countries very multiethnic, if somebody came from Wallachia (which was just before Cumania) it does not mean automatically that he was only "Romanian". The origin of the Hunyadi family is highly debated, there are many theories. Thúróczy Chronicle writes about Hunyadi as origin from "noble, famous family of Wallachia". Origin from the area is not the same as nationality. The region between the Southern Carpathians and the Lower Danube was at one time part of Etelköz, later a conflict zone between the Kingdom of Hungary and Byzantium, then the Ottoman Empire. In order to protect the southern territories of the Kingdom of Hungary, the area that has always been in focus was inhabited first by the Pechenegs, and then after 1055 by the Cuman-Pecheneg population, whose leading stratum was of Cuman origin. The name of Wallachia was Ungro-Wallachia in medieval times, i.e. Hungary-Wallachia, which had a Hungarian population until the 19th century. Family of Hunyadi was also Catholic while Romanians were Orthodox. For example King Béla III of Hungary from the Arpad dynasty called "Greek Béla", because he came from Constantinople as previous heir of the Byzantine empire, but he clearly was not a Greek.
Latest modern research: The genetic legacy of the Hunyadi descendants – Published: 16 November 2022:
https://www.cell.com/heliyon/fulltext/S2405-8440(22)03019-5
(Published in Heliyon in open format to get available free for every researcher. Heliyon is a very prestigious Q1 ranked journal, a top ranked journal where only 17% of the articles are accepted.)
It is Hungarian video, the scholars, genetics, historians, who worked in the DNA study clearly say the Hungarian version of Hunyadi's origin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glNx8uuBgOI
Closest Y-chromosomal haplogroups samples around the world:
- Sample from the Otrar-Karatau culture of the Iron Age Kazakh steppe (245–343 AD) (Scythians).
- Sample from Medieval Sardinia (1300–1400 AD).
Closest Y-chromosomal haplogroups samples from the Carpathian Basin:
- Sample from an Avar person (650–675 AD) (Onogur, so-called "griffin and tendril" culture) (Székkutas-kápolnadűlő Avar cemetery).
- Sample from an elite Hungarian conqueror (895–950 AD) (Karos Hungarian conqueror cemetery) (This person had blue eyes and light hair. According to the contemporary paintings and descriptions, John Hunyadi and King Matthias have also blonde hair).
- Sample from a medieval Hungarian nobleman who was buried in the Hungarian Royal Basilica of Székesfehérvár.
Do you think, these samples above are Romanians? OrionNimrod ( talk) 09:53, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
Hello, just wanted to add Romanian to Wallachian ancestry, since Wallachian is a dated, historical exonym for Romanian. In the native Romanian language, Wallachia was called "Țara Românească" 'The Romanian Country'. Hope this context, adding Romanian in parenthesis will be allowed.
Thank you very much in advance, have a good day! Ninhursag3 ( talk) 20:37, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
John Hunyadi is commonly called Iancu by Romanians, and I think the Romanian version of his name should be written as Ioan/Iancu de Hunedoara. LaszloKov ( talk) 17:50, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
John Hunyadi article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1,
2,
3,
4,
5,
6,
7Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
![]() | Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated. Please read recent comments and look in the archives before commenting. |
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on August 11, 2020 and August 11, 2022. |
The article currently states, "Hunyadi's year of birth is uncertain. Although Gáspár Heltai writes that Hunyadi was born in 1390, he must have actually been born between around 1405 and 1407, because his younger brother was only born after 1409, and a difference of almost two decades between the two brothers' age is not plausible." The assertion that the brothers could not have been born 19 years apart is surprising without further explanation. While mother and infant survival rates were low in Mediaeval Europe, contraception was unreliable at best. In the absence of reliable contraception, women tend to have their first child when they are younger than women using contraception, and their last child when they are older. Women tend to be fertile from their mid teens, and tend to reach menopause anywhere between their late thirties and their late 50s. A nineteen year span between eldest and youngest sibling is not unknown today, and would also have been plausible in Mediaeval Europe. Marynz ( talk) 06:39, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
Hi Ninhursag3!
[1] I see the intention that you try several times rewrite the topic and emphasize several times that "Hunyadi was Romanian" make the article biased and exclusively present the Romanian viewpoint as fact, however the majority of Hungarian historiography say he was not Romanian. It is quite boring topic regarding John Hunyadi considers a great Hungarian hero and clearly a main character in Hungarian history and not in Romanian history.
John Hunyadi and his son King Matthias of Hungary played a great and very important role in the life of the Kingdom of Hungary. The father of John Hunyadi got a huge estate from King Sigismund of Hungary. The father of John Hunyadi was called Voyk, the pagan Turkic name of King Saint Stephen of Hungary was also Vajk 400 years earlier (perhaps he was also Romanian?). The mother of John Hunyadi was called Elizabeth a Catholic Hungarian name. The sister of John Hunyadi had also a Catholic Hungarian name. John Hunyadi was born and raised in the Kingdom of Hungary, Hunyadi became very quickly a high-ranked member of the court of King Sigismund of Hungary. King Sigismund entrusted the military upbringing of young John to his main confidant. King Sigismund took John Hunyadi with him everywhere in Europe and also to Italy for one of the most significant events of his life, in Rome at the Imperial Coronation. John Hunyadi married a Catholic Hungarian noblewoman, Hunyadi considered himself a Hungarian nobleman, lived and died in 1456 according to this. Hunyadi was a leading Hungarian military and political figure, Hunyadi was the Count of Székelys, Voivode of Transylvania (part of the Kingdom of Hungary). John Hunyadi was a great Hungarian warlord and sole regent with the title of governor of the Hungarian Kingdom. John Hunyadi had huge estates everywhere in the Kingdom of Hungary and used all his income to protect Hungary against the Ottomans.
At that time around 1400, Romanian etnicity or modern etnicities did not exist. It was several times discussed in the article. The article clearly say most contemporary sources claim that his father was a nobleman from Wallachia, which was presented in the article ("he was the member of a noble family of Wallachian ancestry") before you rewrote. All medieval countries very multiethnic, if somebody came from Wallachia (which was just before Cumania) it does not mean automatically that he was only "Romanian". The origin of the Hunyadi family is highly debated, there are many theories. Thúróczy Chronicle writes about Hunyadi as origin from "noble, famous family of Wallachia". Origin from the area is not the same as nationality. The region between the Southern Carpathians and the Lower Danube was at one time part of Etelköz, later a conflict zone between the Kingdom of Hungary and Byzantium, then the Ottoman Empire. In order to protect the southern territories of the Kingdom of Hungary, the area that has always been in focus was inhabited first by the Pechenegs, and then after 1055 by the Cuman-Pecheneg population, whose leading stratum was of Cuman origin. The name of Wallachia was Ungro-Wallachia in medieval times, i.e. Hungary-Wallachia, which had a Hungarian population until the 19th century. Family of Hunyadi was also Catholic while Romanians were Orthodox. For example King Béla III of Hungary from the Arpad dynasty called "Greek Béla", because he came from Constantinople as previous heir of the Byzantine empire, but he clearly was not a Greek.
Latest modern research: The genetic legacy of the Hunyadi descendants – Published: 16 November 2022:
https://www.cell.com/heliyon/fulltext/S2405-8440(22)03019-5
(Published in Heliyon in open format to get available free for every researcher. Heliyon is a very prestigious Q1 ranked journal, a top ranked journal where only 17% of the articles are accepted.)
It is Hungarian video, the scholars, genetics, historians, who worked in the DNA study clearly say the Hungarian version of Hunyadi's origin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glNx8uuBgOI
Closest Y-chromosomal haplogroups samples around the world:
- Sample from the Otrar-Karatau culture of the Iron Age Kazakh steppe (245–343 AD) (Scythians).
- Sample from Medieval Sardinia (1300–1400 AD).
Closest Y-chromosomal haplogroups samples from the Carpathian Basin:
- Sample from an Avar person (650–675 AD) (Onogur, so-called "griffin and tendril" culture) (Székkutas-kápolnadűlő Avar cemetery).
- Sample from an elite Hungarian conqueror (895–950 AD) (Karos Hungarian conqueror cemetery) (This person had blue eyes and light hair. According to the contemporary paintings and descriptions, John Hunyadi and King Matthias have also blonde hair).
- Sample from a medieval Hungarian nobleman who was buried in the Hungarian Royal Basilica of Székesfehérvár.
Do you think, these samples above are Romanians? OrionNimrod ( talk) 09:53, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
Hello, just wanted to add Romanian to Wallachian ancestry, since Wallachian is a dated, historical exonym for Romanian. In the native Romanian language, Wallachia was called "Țara Românească" 'The Romanian Country'. Hope this context, adding Romanian in parenthesis will be allowed.
Thank you very much in advance, have a good day! Ninhursag3 ( talk) 20:37, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
John Hunyadi is commonly called Iancu by Romanians, and I think the Romanian version of his name should be written as Ioan/Iancu de Hunedoara. LaszloKov ( talk) 17:50, 4 March 2024 (UTC)