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Reviewer: Mike Christie ( talk · contribs) 14:32, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
I'll review this. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 14:32, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
Fixing the first two points will require a fair bit of work, so I'm going to hold off on continuing the review till those are addressed. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 14:44, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
I was about to do another pass, but decided to read what I could of the sources first, since some of them are available online. I am starting to wonder if the article is a bit short for the subject. There's a 272-page book about him (Heisman & Schlabach); can we really only have six sentences taking him up to age 18? The chapter by Pope gives a few nice details that I think could be used -- for example, it apparently took Heisman several tries to persuade the rules committee to allow a forward pass, but you only give this a single sentence. Isn't this a fairly major moment in the evolution of American football? I'll look a bit further and see what else I can find, but it does seem a bit thin at the moment. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 23:07, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
This seems to have some more coverage on the rules change, and given the date I suspect it's one of the sources used by the other books. Will look further; but please say if you disagree with the idea that the article could be expanded. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 00:39, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
I'm going to go ahead and make notes on the article as it stands, and come back to the question of whether it could be expanded afterwards.
Heisman implemented seven-man interference: the links don't explain this at all, and it's quite opaque to someone who knows little of American football.
He witnessed one of the first illegal forward passes: a short description would be interesting to the reader, particular in light of Heisman's later support for the rule change.
he coached four winning seasons and three Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Association (SIAA) titles: needs a little rewording; he didn't coach the titles.
Heisman once described his style of play at Clemson as "radically different from anything on earth": I've no idea what this is referring to. Can this be expanded?
Fuzzy Woodruff wrote "the just historian will reach the inevitable conclusion that Heisman never did anything that it wasn't customary for his rivals to do.": I don't follow this either. Also, per MOS:LQ, that period should be outside the quotes.
The immediate aftermath resulted in the suspension of the rivalry until 1909: not sure what's intended here. Do you mean "in the aftermath the rivalry was suspended"? Or was there some other aftermath than the suspension?
As one writer describes, "...: "describes" takes a direct object, so I'd use "said" without the comma, or make it "describes the scene" or something like that.
the week before, Clemson had beaten Georgia 29–0: the week before what? No date or other time indication has been given other than "the following season".
the $415.11 to hire Heisman: annual salary? Later in the article his starting salary at Tech is given as $2,250, which is $50 more than his Clemson salary, but this is only four years later. Did his salary at Clemson get multiplied by four in that time?
This is exemplified in his speeches, one of which is given here: well, a quote is given. And was that really said to encourage his team? Neither the source you give nor Pope (who also quotes it) says so.
I'll stop there and let you respond; I have some concerns about the prose, but my main concern as far as the GA criteria go is 3a: is it broad enough in its coverage? Rather than finish going through the article I'll wait to see whether you think more can be added, and once we've settled that and the issues above are addressed I'll do another pass. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 01:53, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
Just looked through and I think you've fixed everything I commented on. I'll read through again and add any more comments I can find, but I think we're getting close. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 20:44, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
Just a couple of points before I pass this for GA.
Georgia Tech used to play basketball in the Heisman Gym: Not sure what this means -- do you mean the gym was named that when he coached there?
I also have a couple of suggestions for improvements, in case you're thinking of taking this to FAC. These points are not an issue for GA.
As I said, these don't have to be fixed for me to pass the article. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 21:22, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Mike Christie ( talk · contribs) 14:32, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
I'll review this. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 14:32, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
Fixing the first two points will require a fair bit of work, so I'm going to hold off on continuing the review till those are addressed. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 14:44, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
I was about to do another pass, but decided to read what I could of the sources first, since some of them are available online. I am starting to wonder if the article is a bit short for the subject. There's a 272-page book about him (Heisman & Schlabach); can we really only have six sentences taking him up to age 18? The chapter by Pope gives a few nice details that I think could be used -- for example, it apparently took Heisman several tries to persuade the rules committee to allow a forward pass, but you only give this a single sentence. Isn't this a fairly major moment in the evolution of American football? I'll look a bit further and see what else I can find, but it does seem a bit thin at the moment. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 23:07, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
This seems to have some more coverage on the rules change, and given the date I suspect it's one of the sources used by the other books. Will look further; but please say if you disagree with the idea that the article could be expanded. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 00:39, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
I'm going to go ahead and make notes on the article as it stands, and come back to the question of whether it could be expanded afterwards.
Heisman implemented seven-man interference: the links don't explain this at all, and it's quite opaque to someone who knows little of American football.
He witnessed one of the first illegal forward passes: a short description would be interesting to the reader, particular in light of Heisman's later support for the rule change.
he coached four winning seasons and three Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Association (SIAA) titles: needs a little rewording; he didn't coach the titles.
Heisman once described his style of play at Clemson as "radically different from anything on earth": I've no idea what this is referring to. Can this be expanded?
Fuzzy Woodruff wrote "the just historian will reach the inevitable conclusion that Heisman never did anything that it wasn't customary for his rivals to do.": I don't follow this either. Also, per MOS:LQ, that period should be outside the quotes.
The immediate aftermath resulted in the suspension of the rivalry until 1909: not sure what's intended here. Do you mean "in the aftermath the rivalry was suspended"? Or was there some other aftermath than the suspension?
As one writer describes, "...: "describes" takes a direct object, so I'd use "said" without the comma, or make it "describes the scene" or something like that.
the week before, Clemson had beaten Georgia 29–0: the week before what? No date or other time indication has been given other than "the following season".
the $415.11 to hire Heisman: annual salary? Later in the article his starting salary at Tech is given as $2,250, which is $50 more than his Clemson salary, but this is only four years later. Did his salary at Clemson get multiplied by four in that time?
This is exemplified in his speeches, one of which is given here: well, a quote is given. And was that really said to encourage his team? Neither the source you give nor Pope (who also quotes it) says so.
I'll stop there and let you respond; I have some concerns about the prose, but my main concern as far as the GA criteria go is 3a: is it broad enough in its coverage? Rather than finish going through the article I'll wait to see whether you think more can be added, and once we've settled that and the issues above are addressed I'll do another pass. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 01:53, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
Just looked through and I think you've fixed everything I commented on. I'll read through again and add any more comments I can find, but I think we're getting close. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 20:44, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
Just a couple of points before I pass this for GA.
Georgia Tech used to play basketball in the Heisman Gym: Not sure what this means -- do you mean the gym was named that when he coached there?
I also have a couple of suggestions for improvements, in case you're thinking of taking this to FAC. These points are not an issue for GA.
As I said, these don't have to be fixed for me to pass the article. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 21:22, 31 December 2017 (UTC)