![]() | John Heisman has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||
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![]() | A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
January 16, 2018. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the
Heisman Trophy, awarded annually to the best
college football player, is named for
John Heisman, who was instrumental in legalizing the
forward pass? | |||||||||
![]() | Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on October 23, 2019, and October 23, 2022. |
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The version of the picture from the cited article looks much better than the one we have. Perhaps we could swap, or someone could adjust the contrast on the existing one? I bet it'd just take running Auto Contrast in Photoshop. — Disavian ( talk/ contribs) 15:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
At Oberlin, Heisman was a player/coach. This team photo of the 1892 team shows Heisman in uniform. Speck22 ( talk) 01:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
Why is the trophy named after him? Of all the coaches and players in the early era of college football (Walter Camp, Pop Warner, Fielding Yost, Knute Rockne), many of whom had more of an impact on the game, why Heisman? Just asking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rluttman ( talk • contribs) 21:58, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
The jump shift was one of his main innovations, with his teams using it on almost every play. Somebody more in-tune with, say, Georgia Tech history, should really write up something about it here. Cake ( talk) 06:36, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:John Heisman/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
== Ratings ==
I rated start, because the article still lacks a lot of information. We've got when and where he played football, but get nothing to indicate whether he was good or not. Also, there are only a few sentences on what kind of coach he was. I'm not exactly sure how much this article can expand, since he's from so long ago, and there probably aren't too many reliable records about his life, playing career, or coaching career. I rated as a high importance because the most coveted trophy in the game is named after him! Somebody new to college football would want to know what warranted that, and I'm sure there are current fans that know much about him. |
Last edited at 04:29, 30 August 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 20:12, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Whoever added the McMath source cited page numbers just once despite using it a few times. For consistency's sake in how the sources are arranged, I assume all of those were from the original cited page, but it should be checked if any wikipedian has the book. Cake ( talk) 01:48, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
"Heisman eventually also coached track and became the head of the Atlanta Baseball Association and the athletic director of the Atlanta Athletic Club." - I assume the Atlanta Baseball Association refers to the Atlanta Crackers, of which Heisman was president of the group of owners. Cake ( talk) 07:49, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
@ MisterCake: and interested parties, I'm beginning copyedit on this article. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to express them. I tend to feel that the MOS is a collection of guidelines to help improve articles but that each article has its own needs. - Reidgreg ( talk) 16:51, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the Thanks! You're very welcome. The article was in good shape before and I hope I improved it a little, just the benefit of a fresh set of eyes, I'm sure. I feel it's definitely a B and on its way to a GA. A couple notes:
His 1917 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado have been recognized as a national champion.To me "a national championship team" sounds better, but as I read further it seems the team was selected/declared champions without an actual championship game (in part due to the U.S. entering WWI). So I believe it's accurate as stated, but does it sound odd?
he played varsity football for Titusville High School in 1884, 1885, and 1886, I'd like to tighten that to a range
from 1884 to 1886. However, this could change the meaning, if he only played partial seasons making the inclusiveness or a range misleading.
That's it for now. I should be able to come back to this tomorrow for another look. - Reidgreg ( talk) 22:18, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
Okay, I've finished my copyedit. One last suggestion, and this is for later if you're working toward a GAN, it could be a little more well-rounded as a biography, maybe with more about his acting career and family life. That one source says he left Auburn to pursue acting full-time until Clemson gave him a lucrative offer (and even then he still landed roles in productions across the south, presumably in the off-season). And the article notes his divorce but not his marriage, and whether or not they had children. Just a suggestion. - Reidgreg ( talk) 15:55, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
Hi, I took a quick pass at the article (being semi-familiar with it). I feel it's a solid B-class but will leave it at GoCE Requests for a fresh set of eyes. I did a couple tweaks for clarity and took out some overlinking (better to have too much linking than to little while building the article). I also feel Trinity, German, and actor are common terms and unlikely links for the reader to follow, but I left them in. – Reidgreg ( talk) 16:30, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
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GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Mike Christie ( talk · contribs) 14:32, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
I'll review this. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 14:32, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
Fixing the first two points will require a fair bit of work, so I'm going to hold off on continuing the review till those are addressed. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 14:44, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
I was about to do another pass, but decided to read what I could of the sources first, since some of them are available online. I am starting to wonder if the article is a bit short for the subject. There's a 272-page book about him (Heisman & Schlabach); can we really only have six sentences taking him up to age 18? The chapter by Pope gives a few nice details that I think could be used -- for example, it apparently took Heisman several tries to persuade the rules committee to allow a forward pass, but you only give this a single sentence. Isn't this a fairly major moment in the evolution of American football? I'll look a bit further and see what else I can find, but it does seem a bit thin at the moment. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 23:07, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
This seems to have some more coverage on the rules change, and given the date I suspect it's one of the sources used by the other books. Will look further; but please say if you disagree with the idea that the article could be expanded. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 00:39, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
I'm going to go ahead and make notes on the article as it stands, and come back to the question of whether it could be expanded afterwards.
Heisman implemented seven-man interference: the links don't explain this at all, and it's quite opaque to someone who knows little of American football.
He witnessed one of the first illegal forward passes: a short description would be interesting to the reader, particular in light of Heisman's later support for the rule change.
he coached four winning seasons and three Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Association (SIAA) titles: needs a little rewording; he didn't coach the titles.
Heisman once described his style of play at Clemson as "radically different from anything on earth": I've no idea what this is referring to. Can this be expanded?
Fuzzy Woodruff wrote "the just historian will reach the inevitable conclusion that Heisman never did anything that it wasn't customary for his rivals to do.": I don't follow this either. Also, per MOS:LQ, that period should be outside the quotes.
The immediate aftermath resulted in the suspension of the rivalry until 1909: not sure what's intended here. Do you mean "in the aftermath the rivalry was suspended"? Or was there some other aftermath than the suspension?
As one writer describes, "...: "describes" takes a direct object, so I'd use "said" without the comma, or make it "describes the scene" or something like that.
the week before, Clemson had beaten Georgia 29–0: the week before what? No date or other time indication has been given other than "the following season".
the $415.11 to hire Heisman: annual salary? Later in the article his starting salary at Tech is given as $2,250, which is $50 more than his Clemson salary, but this is only four years later. Did his salary at Clemson get multiplied by four in that time?
This is exemplified in his speeches, one of which is given here: well, a quote is given. And was that really said to encourage his team? Neither the source you give nor Pope (who also quotes it) says so.
I'll stop there and let you respond; I have some concerns about the prose, but my main concern as far as the GA criteria go is 3a: is it broad enough in its coverage? Rather than finish going through the article I'll wait to see whether you think more can be added, and once we've settled that and the issues above are addressed I'll do another pass. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 01:53, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
Just looked through and I think you've fixed everything I commented on. I'll read through again and add any more comments I can find, but I think we're getting close. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 20:44, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
Just a couple of points before I pass this for GA.
Georgia Tech used to play basketball in the Heisman Gym: Not sure what this means -- do you mean the gym was named that when he coached there?
I also have a couple of suggestions for improvements, in case you're thinking of taking this to FAC. These points are not an issue for GA.
As I said, these don't have to be fixed for me to pass the article. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 21:22, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
![]() | John Heisman has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() | A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
January 16, 2018. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the
Heisman Trophy, awarded annually to the best
college football player, is named for
John Heisman, who was instrumental in legalizing the
forward pass? | |||||||||
![]() | Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on October 23, 2019, and October 23, 2022. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The version of the picture from the cited article looks much better than the one we have. Perhaps we could swap, or someone could adjust the contrast on the existing one? I bet it'd just take running Auto Contrast in Photoshop. — Disavian ( talk/ contribs) 15:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
At Oberlin, Heisman was a player/coach. This team photo of the 1892 team shows Heisman in uniform. Speck22 ( talk) 01:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
Why is the trophy named after him? Of all the coaches and players in the early era of college football (Walter Camp, Pop Warner, Fielding Yost, Knute Rockne), many of whom had more of an impact on the game, why Heisman? Just asking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rluttman ( talk • contribs) 21:58, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
The jump shift was one of his main innovations, with his teams using it on almost every play. Somebody more in-tune with, say, Georgia Tech history, should really write up something about it here. Cake ( talk) 06:36, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:John Heisman/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
== Ratings ==
I rated start, because the article still lacks a lot of information. We've got when and where he played football, but get nothing to indicate whether he was good or not. Also, there are only a few sentences on what kind of coach he was. I'm not exactly sure how much this article can expand, since he's from so long ago, and there probably aren't too many reliable records about his life, playing career, or coaching career. I rated as a high importance because the most coveted trophy in the game is named after him! Somebody new to college football would want to know what warranted that, and I'm sure there are current fans that know much about him. |
Last edited at 04:29, 30 August 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 20:12, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Whoever added the McMath source cited page numbers just once despite using it a few times. For consistency's sake in how the sources are arranged, I assume all of those were from the original cited page, but it should be checked if any wikipedian has the book. Cake ( talk) 01:48, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
"Heisman eventually also coached track and became the head of the Atlanta Baseball Association and the athletic director of the Atlanta Athletic Club." - I assume the Atlanta Baseball Association refers to the Atlanta Crackers, of which Heisman was president of the group of owners. Cake ( talk) 07:49, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
@ MisterCake: and interested parties, I'm beginning copyedit on this article. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to express them. I tend to feel that the MOS is a collection of guidelines to help improve articles but that each article has its own needs. - Reidgreg ( talk) 16:51, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the Thanks! You're very welcome. The article was in good shape before and I hope I improved it a little, just the benefit of a fresh set of eyes, I'm sure. I feel it's definitely a B and on its way to a GA. A couple notes:
His 1917 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado have been recognized as a national champion.To me "a national championship team" sounds better, but as I read further it seems the team was selected/declared champions without an actual championship game (in part due to the U.S. entering WWI). So I believe it's accurate as stated, but does it sound odd?
he played varsity football for Titusville High School in 1884, 1885, and 1886, I'd like to tighten that to a range
from 1884 to 1886. However, this could change the meaning, if he only played partial seasons making the inclusiveness or a range misleading.
That's it for now. I should be able to come back to this tomorrow for another look. - Reidgreg ( talk) 22:18, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
Okay, I've finished my copyedit. One last suggestion, and this is for later if you're working toward a GAN, it could be a little more well-rounded as a biography, maybe with more about his acting career and family life. That one source says he left Auburn to pursue acting full-time until Clemson gave him a lucrative offer (and even then he still landed roles in productions across the south, presumably in the off-season). And the article notes his divorce but not his marriage, and whether or not they had children. Just a suggestion. - Reidgreg ( talk) 15:55, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
Hi, I took a quick pass at the article (being semi-familiar with it). I feel it's a solid B-class but will leave it at GoCE Requests for a fresh set of eyes. I did a couple tweaks for clarity and took out some overlinking (better to have too much linking than to little while building the article). I also feel Trinity, German, and actor are common terms and unlikely links for the reader to follow, but I left them in. – Reidgreg ( talk) 16:30, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
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GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Mike Christie ( talk · contribs) 14:32, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
I'll review this. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 14:32, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
Fixing the first two points will require a fair bit of work, so I'm going to hold off on continuing the review till those are addressed. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 14:44, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
I was about to do another pass, but decided to read what I could of the sources first, since some of them are available online. I am starting to wonder if the article is a bit short for the subject. There's a 272-page book about him (Heisman & Schlabach); can we really only have six sentences taking him up to age 18? The chapter by Pope gives a few nice details that I think could be used -- for example, it apparently took Heisman several tries to persuade the rules committee to allow a forward pass, but you only give this a single sentence. Isn't this a fairly major moment in the evolution of American football? I'll look a bit further and see what else I can find, but it does seem a bit thin at the moment. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 23:07, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
This seems to have some more coverage on the rules change, and given the date I suspect it's one of the sources used by the other books. Will look further; but please say if you disagree with the idea that the article could be expanded. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 00:39, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
I'm going to go ahead and make notes on the article as it stands, and come back to the question of whether it could be expanded afterwards.
Heisman implemented seven-man interference: the links don't explain this at all, and it's quite opaque to someone who knows little of American football.
He witnessed one of the first illegal forward passes: a short description would be interesting to the reader, particular in light of Heisman's later support for the rule change.
he coached four winning seasons and three Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Association (SIAA) titles: needs a little rewording; he didn't coach the titles.
Heisman once described his style of play at Clemson as "radically different from anything on earth": I've no idea what this is referring to. Can this be expanded?
Fuzzy Woodruff wrote "the just historian will reach the inevitable conclusion that Heisman never did anything that it wasn't customary for his rivals to do.": I don't follow this either. Also, per MOS:LQ, that period should be outside the quotes.
The immediate aftermath resulted in the suspension of the rivalry until 1909: not sure what's intended here. Do you mean "in the aftermath the rivalry was suspended"? Or was there some other aftermath than the suspension?
As one writer describes, "...: "describes" takes a direct object, so I'd use "said" without the comma, or make it "describes the scene" or something like that.
the week before, Clemson had beaten Georgia 29–0: the week before what? No date or other time indication has been given other than "the following season".
the $415.11 to hire Heisman: annual salary? Later in the article his starting salary at Tech is given as $2,250, which is $50 more than his Clemson salary, but this is only four years later. Did his salary at Clemson get multiplied by four in that time?
This is exemplified in his speeches, one of which is given here: well, a quote is given. And was that really said to encourage his team? Neither the source you give nor Pope (who also quotes it) says so.
I'll stop there and let you respond; I have some concerns about the prose, but my main concern as far as the GA criteria go is 3a: is it broad enough in its coverage? Rather than finish going through the article I'll wait to see whether you think more can be added, and once we've settled that and the issues above are addressed I'll do another pass. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 01:53, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
Just looked through and I think you've fixed everything I commented on. I'll read through again and add any more comments I can find, but I think we're getting close. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 20:44, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
Just a couple of points before I pass this for GA.
Georgia Tech used to play basketball in the Heisman Gym: Not sure what this means -- do you mean the gym was named that when he coached there?
I also have a couple of suggestions for improvements, in case you're thinking of taking this to FAC. These points are not an issue for GA.
As I said, these don't have to be fixed for me to pass the article. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 21:22, 31 December 2017 (UTC)