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John Cunningham (RAF officer) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Current status: Delisted good article |
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Image:John Cunningham CBE - Famous Grouse DH Moth Rally 1979.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 21:23, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
See Template:Did you know nominations/John Cunningham (RAF officer)
I removed the content as only tangentially related to the bio of the man; I'm preserving this content by providing this llink. Please let me know if there are any concerns. K.e.coffman ( talk) 16:34, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
Tried having a conversation here with an editor that doesn't pay attention. I'm going to say this one final time: the information is sourced to Cunningham's biographer. Pay attention and think. Dapi89 ( talk) 18:17, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
"Kentish plovers either forage individually or in loose flocks of 20-30 individuals (outside the breeding season), and occasionally can incorporate into larger flocks of up to 260 individuals of multiple species.", meaning a "huge flock" of KPs anywhere, let alone in the UK, is almost unthinkable., and doubly so in November, as they're summer migrants. See also [1], which further notes "Breeding numbers peaked at around 40 pairs in the early to mid-20th century". So it appears that the claim is not only not (properly) cited, but the claim that the source says what Dapi89 added to the article today is as false as the separate long-standing false claim (that the birds were Snowy Plover, which do not occur in the UK) which I initially removed. Given the vast difference in size, flocking behaviour and habitat preferences of the aforementioned plover species, "flock of birds" is fine. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:48, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
I noticed this issue on Andy's talk. Please let me understand. We talk about an accident he had with birds, right? I am surprised to find the complete accident without an inline citation. In a GA, really? -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 19:38, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
I just reverted the latest attempt to insert a link to Kentish plovers when there is no source for "Kentish". Does it even matter? -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 14:02, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
The more I look at this article, the more citation issues I find, including claims not supported by sources, and sources which predate the claims they purport to support.
For example, the paragraph:
In his retirement... John Cunningham died six days shy of his 85th birthday in July 2002.
had (until I just tagged it) just one citation, placed after its final full stop: {{sfn|Golley|1999|pp=215–216}}
. So that's a 1999 publication which speaks about the subject in the present tense, used to cite his 2002 death.
One 135-word paragraph is cited simply to {{sfn|Golley|1999|pp=171–199}}
- that's 28 pages.
Elsewhere, we had a 23 August 2012 press article, talking about a forthcoming event, falsely cited as having a September 2012 date, and used to support a claim about the auction price paid at a September 2012 event.
Unfortunately not all of the sources cited are online, and the Internet Archive's copy of John 'Cat's Eyes' Cunningham : the aviation legend that is heavily cited is missing several of the pages cited (e.g. page 24).
Though a secondary issue, the article's prose is also clumsy; see recent edits for some fixes, but they do not address all of the issues. For example:
Attempting his usual tactic, the British crew approached from behind and below. Suddenly the Heinkel lurched into a tight left-hand turn allowing the gunners to fire a broad-side.
The listing of every crew member of a German plane shot down by the article subject is also probably not necessary.
On top of all this, attempts to rectify even minor issues have met with edit warring and abuse, as a result of which a block is currently in place.
I leave it to uninvolved editors more familiar with GA criteria to determine how to proceed. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:18, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
` Comment Nigel Ish I took "Thomas 2013" to be a typo, and changed it to match the other Thomas references. The Gazette issue can be cured by using the correct template ({{ London Gazette}}) instead of {{ sfn}}. The Hooton2010 ref is the one causing the ref error issue raised at WT:MILHIST. Mjroots ( talk) 13:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
References
Re: "He expended all the Beaufighter's ammunition against it from the working cannons—one cannon jammed."
. If this is so, how did he transfer ammunition from the jammed cannon to the others?
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits
22:16, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
" Wells, Somerset is quoted, then Burnham Overy is mentioned. This is not possible! It is either "Wells, Somerset" and Burnham-on-Sea, Somerset or Wells-next-the-Sea and Burnham Overy (more accurately Burnham Overy Staithe), Norfolk. I don't know which is meant so haven't altered the text. Mjroots ( talk) 20:15, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
"The Luftwaffe began operations at 22:00 that night," - is that UK time, or German? Is it when they took off, arrived over the UK, fired at a British plane, or dropped their first bomb? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:53, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
John Cunningham (RAF officer) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | John Cunningham (RAF officer) was one of the Warfare good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Delisted good article |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Image:John Cunningham CBE - Famous Grouse DH Moth Rally 1979.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 21:23, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
See Template:Did you know nominations/John Cunningham (RAF officer)
I removed the content as only tangentially related to the bio of the man; I'm preserving this content by providing this llink. Please let me know if there are any concerns. K.e.coffman ( talk) 16:34, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
Tried having a conversation here with an editor that doesn't pay attention. I'm going to say this one final time: the information is sourced to Cunningham's biographer. Pay attention and think. Dapi89 ( talk) 18:17, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
"Kentish plovers either forage individually or in loose flocks of 20-30 individuals (outside the breeding season), and occasionally can incorporate into larger flocks of up to 260 individuals of multiple species.", meaning a "huge flock" of KPs anywhere, let alone in the UK, is almost unthinkable., and doubly so in November, as they're summer migrants. See also [1], which further notes "Breeding numbers peaked at around 40 pairs in the early to mid-20th century". So it appears that the claim is not only not (properly) cited, but the claim that the source says what Dapi89 added to the article today is as false as the separate long-standing false claim (that the birds were Snowy Plover, which do not occur in the UK) which I initially removed. Given the vast difference in size, flocking behaviour and habitat preferences of the aforementioned plover species, "flock of birds" is fine. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:48, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
I noticed this issue on Andy's talk. Please let me understand. We talk about an accident he had with birds, right? I am surprised to find the complete accident without an inline citation. In a GA, really? -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 19:38, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
I just reverted the latest attempt to insert a link to Kentish plovers when there is no source for "Kentish". Does it even matter? -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 14:02, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
The more I look at this article, the more citation issues I find, including claims not supported by sources, and sources which predate the claims they purport to support.
For example, the paragraph:
In his retirement... John Cunningham died six days shy of his 85th birthday in July 2002.
had (until I just tagged it) just one citation, placed after its final full stop: {{sfn|Golley|1999|pp=215–216}}
. So that's a 1999 publication which speaks about the subject in the present tense, used to cite his 2002 death.
One 135-word paragraph is cited simply to {{sfn|Golley|1999|pp=171–199}}
- that's 28 pages.
Elsewhere, we had a 23 August 2012 press article, talking about a forthcoming event, falsely cited as having a September 2012 date, and used to support a claim about the auction price paid at a September 2012 event.
Unfortunately not all of the sources cited are online, and the Internet Archive's copy of John 'Cat's Eyes' Cunningham : the aviation legend that is heavily cited is missing several of the pages cited (e.g. page 24).
Though a secondary issue, the article's prose is also clumsy; see recent edits for some fixes, but they do not address all of the issues. For example:
Attempting his usual tactic, the British crew approached from behind and below. Suddenly the Heinkel lurched into a tight left-hand turn allowing the gunners to fire a broad-side.
The listing of every crew member of a German plane shot down by the article subject is also probably not necessary.
On top of all this, attempts to rectify even minor issues have met with edit warring and abuse, as a result of which a block is currently in place.
I leave it to uninvolved editors more familiar with GA criteria to determine how to proceed. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:18, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
` Comment Nigel Ish I took "Thomas 2013" to be a typo, and changed it to match the other Thomas references. The Gazette issue can be cured by using the correct template ({{ London Gazette}}) instead of {{ sfn}}. The Hooton2010 ref is the one causing the ref error issue raised at WT:MILHIST. Mjroots ( talk) 13:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
References
Re: "He expended all the Beaufighter's ammunition against it from the working cannons—one cannon jammed."
. If this is so, how did he transfer ammunition from the jammed cannon to the others?
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits
22:16, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
" Wells, Somerset is quoted, then Burnham Overy is mentioned. This is not possible! It is either "Wells, Somerset" and Burnham-on-Sea, Somerset or Wells-next-the-Sea and Burnham Overy (more accurately Burnham Overy Staithe), Norfolk. I don't know which is meant so haven't altered the text. Mjroots ( talk) 20:15, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
"The Luftwaffe began operations at 22:00 that night," - is that UK time, or German? Is it when they took off, arrived over the UK, fired at a British plane, or dropped their first bomb? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:53, 17 July 2020 (UTC)