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Please don't use this article to gossip about Eliasch's family. See the warning box above. Melchoir 22:26, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I am temporarily moving the following text out of the article because it appears to promote a POV. I did some research, and things aren't quite as simple as it is made to appear.
Note that the material was previously deleted without explanation by an anonymous editor. I wanted to restore it, but I've decided that I don't have the time to do it correctly right now. I do want to make sure that there's a record being kept.
This material should ultimately be re-integrated into the article, as there is certainly a noteworthy controversy that needs to be covered. However, it needs to be cleaned up first. If anyone is actually watching this talk page, feel free to work on it yourself or to offer suggestions. Melchoir ( talk) 09:13, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
The organization Cool Earth, of which he is co-chairman, is being investigated by the Brazilian federal police for illegal activities on the Amazon region. [1] [2]
He is also lobbying for other private enterprises to buy out the Amazon forest, which he priced at $50 billion. [2]
Cool Earth has been subsequently investigated by the Brazilian intelligence service and the Federal Police for wrongdoing in the acquisition of the land. For that reason, the Brazilian Ministry of Justice asked for the expulsion of the NGO from the country [3]
Ambiental corruption
In June 2008, IBAMA, the Brazilian environmental agency, fined his company for illegal amazonian exploration. His company, Gethal, had to pay more than R$450 million for illegal damage of the rain forest, more than 230.000 trees were cut, and for lacking certification for Amazon land it allegedly owned. [4] [5] [6] [7] It is not the first time that his company had made illegal exploration in the Amazonian Rain Forest. but there is rumors that the fines that had been applied to his company is less than 1/5 smaller than the profit of the 230 thousand illegal sold woods. [8] [9]
References
- ^ Amazônia: Perpétua propõe comissão-geral com Mangabeira e Jobim, Vermelho portal (01/06/2008).
- ^ a b Conor Foley, "Not cool", The Guardian (Thursday June 12, 2008).
- ^ Governo vai expulsar ONGs suspeitas do país, Jornal do Brasil (12/02/2009)
- ^ Μαριάννα Λεμπρέν, "Οι «οικολόγοι» επιχειρηματίες", Ελευθεροτυπία (Athens: Greece, 22/06/2008).
- ^ Paula Alvarado, “Johan Eliasch Fights Back Millionaire Fine for Amazon Deforestation”, TreeHugger (09/06/2008)
- ^ Marcelo Dutra, Gethal recebe mais de 380 milhões de reais em multas do Ibama por descumprir Termo de Ajustamento de Conduta (Gethal received more than 380 million Reals fine for not complying with Conduct Adjustment Term), Ibama (in Portuguese)
- ^ "Johan Eliasch, Gordon Brown consultant, fined for illegal Amazon logging", Telegraph, (07/06/2008).
- ^ "Ibama multa madeireira estrangeira em R$ 450 mi" Ambiente Brazil (07/06/2008)
- ^ Kátia Brasil & Hudson Corrêa, "Ibama multa madeireira de milionário sueco em R$ 450 mi no Amazonas", Folha online (06/06/2008).
This edit has been repeated several times by anonymous editors (IP addresses). I have reverted it each time, as it removes some material, including a citation. I've also semi-protected the article in the hope that this will force the editor to explain the edit so that we may reach a consensus. Melchoir ( talk) 01:00, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Why is "Johan Eliasch was featured in the 2006 Planet Earth (TV series)'s Planet Earth: The Future,", even if true ("featured" being a WP:PEACOCK term), important enough to be included in the article? — Arthur Rubin (talk) 15:42, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
He did not found Rainforest Trust. Source 5 does not even say that. Rainforest Trust is a different organization: http://www.rainforesttrust.org/ Catk614 ( talk) 15:45, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
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I'm proposing a new section. I have wrote few lines regarding the controversy. If possible, please expand the contents.
==Controversy==
In June 2008, the Brazilian and international media reported that Eliasch had been issued a fine of R$450 million for alleged illegal deforestation in the Amazon region by IBAMA (Brazilian Institute of Environment and Renewable Natural Resources). [1] [2] Contrary to the media reports the fines were issued against the Brazilian company Gethal, and not against Eliasch. No allegations or investigations were ever conducted by IBAMA against Eliasch. [3]
IBAMA subsequently reduced the fines against Gethal to R$274.2 million. [4] Having concluded its investigations in 2013, IBAMA cancelled the R$274.2 million fines against Gethal.
According to TreeHugger, Eliasch told AFP that, "the illegal logging allegations are false, fabricated and unsubstantiated," as the logging stopped once the Swedish bought the firm. "Gethal has been fined because the company didn't comply with its management plan, which had been decided by the previous owners, which planned for the logging in the rainforest," the source stated. [5]
In a press release note, Gethal stated that “the logging activity of Gethal Amazonas S/A had been out under the Forest Steward Council (FSC) guidelines, a certification that was obtained in 2000. The company was one of the first companies in Brazil to obtain such a certification”. [6]
According to Gethal, technical expert reports were produced proving that the company never caused damage to the environment. Gethal stopped the logging activities in 2005, “when it came under Eliasch's control”. In 2008, a publication of Brazilian government documents shows IBAMA never made any allegations against Eliasch and cancels R$274.2 million fines against Gethal.
Following the controversy Johan Eliasch, continued to serve as the Special Representative of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom on Deforestation and Clean Energy (2007-10) [7] and published “The Eliasch Review: Climate Change – Financing of Global Forests” (October 2008). [8]
References
- Rinat Shakenov 05:32, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
@WikiHannibal, i have make amends to the requested contents per your instructions. Please modify the contents if needed as you are an experienced editor. - Rinat Shakenov ( talk) 11:11, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
@WikiHannibal, thanks Sir. You got it right, we should do it to "prevent other editors to add the same topic in a not-so-well sourced way" in near future. Also, summarized version seems okay to me. Though, full version would explain everything, that's why i suggested a new section "Controversy". If possible, incorporate the proposed section or the summarized version. - Rinat Shakenov ( talk) 01:47, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
proposing a new section.
==Controversy==
In June 2008, the Brazilian and international media reported that Eliasch had been issued a fine of R$450 million for alleged illegal deforestation in the Amazon region by IBAMA (Brazilian Institute of Environment and Renewable Natural Resources). [1] [2] Gethal was investigated facing a possible fine but after the investigation ended, Gethal was not fined. Eliasch did not own Gethal at the time when the activities under investigation took place. [3]
In a press release note, Gethal stated that “the logging activity of Gethal Amazonas S/A had been out under the Forest Steward Council (FSC) guidelines, a certification that was obtained in 2000. The company was one of the first companies in Brazil to obtain such a certification”. [4]
According to Gethal, technical expert reports were produced proving that the company never caused damage to the environment. Gethal stopped the logging activities in 2005, “when it came under Eliasch's control”. In 2008, a publication of Brazilian government documents shows IBAMA never made any allegations against Eliasch and cancels R$274.2 million fines against Gethal.
Following the controversy Johan Eliasch, continued to serve as the Special Representative of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom on Deforestation and Clean Energy (2007-10) [5] and published “The Eliasch Review: Climate Change – Financing of Global Forests” (October 2008). [6]
Rinat Shakenov ( talk) 15:30, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
References
I've tidied up the controversies so they're all contained under the controversies header. The controversies section is getting quite lengthy now so it might be wort taking another look at the lede to ensure that it sufficiently summarises the article's content. I've also noticed that Johan and Amanda Eliasch do appear in Jeffery Epstein's black book but so far there's just this primary source from the Internet Archive https://archive.org/stream/jeffrey-epstein-39s-little-black-book-unredacted/Jeffrey_Epstein39s_Little_Black_Book_unredacted_djvu.txt and no secondary sources for further context. So I'll air on the side of WP:BLP for now. Expressive101 ( talk) 09:33, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Currently we have an 'undo war' surrounding a claim that is being fought for inclusion in the article, but has been redacted by the journalist in question: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2020/06/10/favoured-son-prince-andrew-went-pampered-royal-society-pariah/
From my perspective, we should not be stating incorrect libel on WP as if it were true, when the mistake has been admitted. Thoughts? Griseo veritas ( talk) 08:21, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The following Wikipedia contributors may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
autobiography, and
neutral point of view.
|
Please don't use this article to gossip about Eliasch's family. See the warning box above. Melchoir 22:26, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I am temporarily moving the following text out of the article because it appears to promote a POV. I did some research, and things aren't quite as simple as it is made to appear.
Note that the material was previously deleted without explanation by an anonymous editor. I wanted to restore it, but I've decided that I don't have the time to do it correctly right now. I do want to make sure that there's a record being kept.
This material should ultimately be re-integrated into the article, as there is certainly a noteworthy controversy that needs to be covered. However, it needs to be cleaned up first. If anyone is actually watching this talk page, feel free to work on it yourself or to offer suggestions. Melchoir ( talk) 09:13, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
The organization Cool Earth, of which he is co-chairman, is being investigated by the Brazilian federal police for illegal activities on the Amazon region. [1] [2]
He is also lobbying for other private enterprises to buy out the Amazon forest, which he priced at $50 billion. [2]
Cool Earth has been subsequently investigated by the Brazilian intelligence service and the Federal Police for wrongdoing in the acquisition of the land. For that reason, the Brazilian Ministry of Justice asked for the expulsion of the NGO from the country [3]
Ambiental corruption
In June 2008, IBAMA, the Brazilian environmental agency, fined his company for illegal amazonian exploration. His company, Gethal, had to pay more than R$450 million for illegal damage of the rain forest, more than 230.000 trees were cut, and for lacking certification for Amazon land it allegedly owned. [4] [5] [6] [7] It is not the first time that his company had made illegal exploration in the Amazonian Rain Forest. but there is rumors that the fines that had been applied to his company is less than 1/5 smaller than the profit of the 230 thousand illegal sold woods. [8] [9]
References
- ^ Amazônia: Perpétua propõe comissão-geral com Mangabeira e Jobim, Vermelho portal (01/06/2008).
- ^ a b Conor Foley, "Not cool", The Guardian (Thursday June 12, 2008).
- ^ Governo vai expulsar ONGs suspeitas do país, Jornal do Brasil (12/02/2009)
- ^ Μαριάννα Λεμπρέν, "Οι «οικολόγοι» επιχειρηματίες", Ελευθεροτυπία (Athens: Greece, 22/06/2008).
- ^ Paula Alvarado, “Johan Eliasch Fights Back Millionaire Fine for Amazon Deforestation”, TreeHugger (09/06/2008)
- ^ Marcelo Dutra, Gethal recebe mais de 380 milhões de reais em multas do Ibama por descumprir Termo de Ajustamento de Conduta (Gethal received more than 380 million Reals fine for not complying with Conduct Adjustment Term), Ibama (in Portuguese)
- ^ "Johan Eliasch, Gordon Brown consultant, fined for illegal Amazon logging", Telegraph, (07/06/2008).
- ^ "Ibama multa madeireira estrangeira em R$ 450 mi" Ambiente Brazil (07/06/2008)
- ^ Kátia Brasil & Hudson Corrêa, "Ibama multa madeireira de milionário sueco em R$ 450 mi no Amazonas", Folha online (06/06/2008).
This edit has been repeated several times by anonymous editors (IP addresses). I have reverted it each time, as it removes some material, including a citation. I've also semi-protected the article in the hope that this will force the editor to explain the edit so that we may reach a consensus. Melchoir ( talk) 01:00, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Why is "Johan Eliasch was featured in the 2006 Planet Earth (TV series)'s Planet Earth: The Future,", even if true ("featured" being a WP:PEACOCK term), important enough to be included in the article? — Arthur Rubin (talk) 15:42, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
He did not found Rainforest Trust. Source 5 does not even say that. Rainforest Trust is a different organization: http://www.rainforesttrust.org/ Catk614 ( talk) 15:45, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Johan Eliasch. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:29, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
I'm proposing a new section. I have wrote few lines regarding the controversy. If possible, please expand the contents.
==Controversy==
In June 2008, the Brazilian and international media reported that Eliasch had been issued a fine of R$450 million for alleged illegal deforestation in the Amazon region by IBAMA (Brazilian Institute of Environment and Renewable Natural Resources). [1] [2] Contrary to the media reports the fines were issued against the Brazilian company Gethal, and not against Eliasch. No allegations or investigations were ever conducted by IBAMA against Eliasch. [3]
IBAMA subsequently reduced the fines against Gethal to R$274.2 million. [4] Having concluded its investigations in 2013, IBAMA cancelled the R$274.2 million fines against Gethal.
According to TreeHugger, Eliasch told AFP that, "the illegal logging allegations are false, fabricated and unsubstantiated," as the logging stopped once the Swedish bought the firm. "Gethal has been fined because the company didn't comply with its management plan, which had been decided by the previous owners, which planned for the logging in the rainforest," the source stated. [5]
In a press release note, Gethal stated that “the logging activity of Gethal Amazonas S/A had been out under the Forest Steward Council (FSC) guidelines, a certification that was obtained in 2000. The company was one of the first companies in Brazil to obtain such a certification”. [6]
According to Gethal, technical expert reports were produced proving that the company never caused damage to the environment. Gethal stopped the logging activities in 2005, “when it came under Eliasch's control”. In 2008, a publication of Brazilian government documents shows IBAMA never made any allegations against Eliasch and cancels R$274.2 million fines against Gethal.
Following the controversy Johan Eliasch, continued to serve as the Special Representative of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom on Deforestation and Clean Energy (2007-10) [7] and published “The Eliasch Review: Climate Change – Financing of Global Forests” (October 2008). [8]
References
- Rinat Shakenov 05:32, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
@WikiHannibal, i have make amends to the requested contents per your instructions. Please modify the contents if needed as you are an experienced editor. - Rinat Shakenov ( talk) 11:11, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
@WikiHannibal, thanks Sir. You got it right, we should do it to "prevent other editors to add the same topic in a not-so-well sourced way" in near future. Also, summarized version seems okay to me. Though, full version would explain everything, that's why i suggested a new section "Controversy". If possible, incorporate the proposed section or the summarized version. - Rinat Shakenov ( talk) 01:47, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
proposing a new section.
==Controversy==
In June 2008, the Brazilian and international media reported that Eliasch had been issued a fine of R$450 million for alleged illegal deforestation in the Amazon region by IBAMA (Brazilian Institute of Environment and Renewable Natural Resources). [1] [2] Gethal was investigated facing a possible fine but after the investigation ended, Gethal was not fined. Eliasch did not own Gethal at the time when the activities under investigation took place. [3]
In a press release note, Gethal stated that “the logging activity of Gethal Amazonas S/A had been out under the Forest Steward Council (FSC) guidelines, a certification that was obtained in 2000. The company was one of the first companies in Brazil to obtain such a certification”. [4]
According to Gethal, technical expert reports were produced proving that the company never caused damage to the environment. Gethal stopped the logging activities in 2005, “when it came under Eliasch's control”. In 2008, a publication of Brazilian government documents shows IBAMA never made any allegations against Eliasch and cancels R$274.2 million fines against Gethal.
Following the controversy Johan Eliasch, continued to serve as the Special Representative of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom on Deforestation and Clean Energy (2007-10) [5] and published “The Eliasch Review: Climate Change – Financing of Global Forests” (October 2008). [6]
Rinat Shakenov ( talk) 15:30, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
References
I've tidied up the controversies so they're all contained under the controversies header. The controversies section is getting quite lengthy now so it might be wort taking another look at the lede to ensure that it sufficiently summarises the article's content. I've also noticed that Johan and Amanda Eliasch do appear in Jeffery Epstein's black book but so far there's just this primary source from the Internet Archive https://archive.org/stream/jeffrey-epstein-39s-little-black-book-unredacted/Jeffrey_Epstein39s_Little_Black_Book_unredacted_djvu.txt and no secondary sources for further context. So I'll air on the side of WP:BLP for now. Expressive101 ( talk) 09:33, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Currently we have an 'undo war' surrounding a claim that is being fought for inclusion in the article, but has been redacted by the journalist in question: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2020/06/10/favoured-son-prince-andrew-went-pampered-royal-society-pariah/
From my perspective, we should not be stating incorrect libel on WP as if it were true, when the mistake has been admitted. Thoughts? Griseo veritas ( talk) 08:21, 15 September 2023 (UTC)