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(from memory, as I haven't got the sources) The shade of blue varied depending on the source and availability of the cobalt used; this can be used to give an approximate date to a piece, as can the "heaped and piled" effect. The Topkapi has a room decorated with blue-and-white porcelain stuck to the walls and ceiling. Xanthomelanoussprog ( talk) 06:57, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
I've obtained the Macintosh book; on pp. 11 to 13 he states that the Buddhist court of Kublai Khan required large quantities of white porcelain for rituals. Large numbers of workers from Cizhou were brought in; they'd previously been employed making Cizhou ware and introduced the techniques of underglaze painting to Jingdezhen, changing from brown or black to blue. He states that there was an increase in production at Jingdezhen between 1295 and 1324, with production other than for the court being permitted from 1324; no blue-and-white was mentioned in a work by Jiang Qi in 1322 or found in a wreck (Sinan Shipwreck) off Korea dated to 1328 so production for the Middle East probably started late 1320s or early 1330s. Xanthomelanoussprog ( talk) 05:28, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
Template:Did you know nominations/Jingdezhen ware @ Johnbod, Casliber, and Yoninah:
Jingdezhen is a city with 1.5 million inhabitants, easily accessible along river plains, with an elevation of 35m. Jingdezhen ware was first produced in remote mountain towns like Yaoli, Jiangxi [1], which is some 50km from Jingdezhen. "Jingdezhen" is either the big cuty itself, or (as in the name of the porcelain) a larger region surrounding the city, but it isn't nor ever was a "remote mountain town". Pulled. Fram ( talk) 08:24, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
Johnbod, you dismiss Yaoli rather out of hand, using e.g. the Gotheborg source. Looking at that source [2], I notice that the Porcelain Exhibition Hall in Jingdezhen, described as "an exhibition of what has been produced in Jingdezhen through the ages", has Yaoli porcelain in showcase 1 (1279-1436 CE), and nothing but Yaoli porcelain in showcase 2 (1436-1464) ("One cannot say that it was exactly at Yaoli they made the best porcelain, but Yaoli was the largest, so then quite a few should have been good." Emphasis mine) It seems clear that Yaoli was the first important site producing Jiangdezhen ware, and then faded as a pottery producer and just became one of the main clay providers. Fram ( talk) 07:16, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
I've expanded the kiln technology section; it maybe should be hived off into a separate article, as there's more to be added on fuel (and deforestation around Jingdezhen). The relationship between the court and Jingdezhen seems to be pretty complex; Kerr (15-16) states that there were no imperial workshops until the early Ming, when they were established at Pearl Hill, with part corvée labour. During the Transitional period the ability of the workshops to produce was severely affected. The kilns were destroyed in 1674, and an imperial kiln was functioning by 1683, using waged workmen. Over the Qing period there was a tendency to use private kilns under official "quality inspectors" (my phrase) to produce official ware. Also Tang Ying needs to make an appearance. Xanthomelanoussprog ( talk) 09:28, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
The title "J ware" doesn't reflect the content; the industry at Jingdezhen pioneered or adopted many innovations in kiln and glaze technology, and business organisation which are or will be mentioned. I don't think the title should be changed to "Jingdezhen porcelain" as I think that stoneware was also produced (but that's OR)- although the Chinese referred to all high-fired ware as "porcelain". Xanthomelanoussprog ( talk) 06:41, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
I mean, obviously a labor of love with a lot of work... but what exactly is the topic supposed to be? Porcelain styles in western museums and their bureaucratic history?
The focus (at least for this name) should be the porcelain industry in Jingdezhen, Jiangxi. All of it.
The article (not just a sentence in the lead) should build up from the initial kilns under the Southern Chen to major production under the Song and not start with the imperial kilns centuries later in the wrong dynasty. The kiln info should lead the article, along with other information about the use of kaolinite (and whatever the heck "pih-tun-tsze"/"pai-tun-tsze"/"petuntse" was) that made Jingdezhen so internationally prominent for its porcelain. Obviously kaolin is named for Gaoling Village in the same (medieval) county as Jingdezhen but why did Jingdezhen become the center for the local trade? and why was almost all of the raw material being imported from Qimen in Anhui by the mid-19th century (at least per the Enc. Brit., 9th ed.)? Had the local resources been exhausted? Are they still? etc. — LlywelynII 16:32, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
A fact from Jingdezhen porcelain appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 10 January 2017 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||
|
(from memory, as I haven't got the sources) The shade of blue varied depending on the source and availability of the cobalt used; this can be used to give an approximate date to a piece, as can the "heaped and piled" effect. The Topkapi has a room decorated with blue-and-white porcelain stuck to the walls and ceiling. Xanthomelanoussprog ( talk) 06:57, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
I've obtained the Macintosh book; on pp. 11 to 13 he states that the Buddhist court of Kublai Khan required large quantities of white porcelain for rituals. Large numbers of workers from Cizhou were brought in; they'd previously been employed making Cizhou ware and introduced the techniques of underglaze painting to Jingdezhen, changing from brown or black to blue. He states that there was an increase in production at Jingdezhen between 1295 and 1324, with production other than for the court being permitted from 1324; no blue-and-white was mentioned in a work by Jiang Qi in 1322 or found in a wreck (Sinan Shipwreck) off Korea dated to 1328 so production for the Middle East probably started late 1320s or early 1330s. Xanthomelanoussprog ( talk) 05:28, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
Template:Did you know nominations/Jingdezhen ware @ Johnbod, Casliber, and Yoninah:
Jingdezhen is a city with 1.5 million inhabitants, easily accessible along river plains, with an elevation of 35m. Jingdezhen ware was first produced in remote mountain towns like Yaoli, Jiangxi [1], which is some 50km from Jingdezhen. "Jingdezhen" is either the big cuty itself, or (as in the name of the porcelain) a larger region surrounding the city, but it isn't nor ever was a "remote mountain town". Pulled. Fram ( talk) 08:24, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
Johnbod, you dismiss Yaoli rather out of hand, using e.g. the Gotheborg source. Looking at that source [2], I notice that the Porcelain Exhibition Hall in Jingdezhen, described as "an exhibition of what has been produced in Jingdezhen through the ages", has Yaoli porcelain in showcase 1 (1279-1436 CE), and nothing but Yaoli porcelain in showcase 2 (1436-1464) ("One cannot say that it was exactly at Yaoli they made the best porcelain, but Yaoli was the largest, so then quite a few should have been good." Emphasis mine) It seems clear that Yaoli was the first important site producing Jiangdezhen ware, and then faded as a pottery producer and just became one of the main clay providers. Fram ( talk) 07:16, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
I've expanded the kiln technology section; it maybe should be hived off into a separate article, as there's more to be added on fuel (and deforestation around Jingdezhen). The relationship between the court and Jingdezhen seems to be pretty complex; Kerr (15-16) states that there were no imperial workshops until the early Ming, when they were established at Pearl Hill, with part corvée labour. During the Transitional period the ability of the workshops to produce was severely affected. The kilns were destroyed in 1674, and an imperial kiln was functioning by 1683, using waged workmen. Over the Qing period there was a tendency to use private kilns under official "quality inspectors" (my phrase) to produce official ware. Also Tang Ying needs to make an appearance. Xanthomelanoussprog ( talk) 09:28, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
The title "J ware" doesn't reflect the content; the industry at Jingdezhen pioneered or adopted many innovations in kiln and glaze technology, and business organisation which are or will be mentioned. I don't think the title should be changed to "Jingdezhen porcelain" as I think that stoneware was also produced (but that's OR)- although the Chinese referred to all high-fired ware as "porcelain". Xanthomelanoussprog ( talk) 06:41, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
I mean, obviously a labor of love with a lot of work... but what exactly is the topic supposed to be? Porcelain styles in western museums and their bureaucratic history?
The focus (at least for this name) should be the porcelain industry in Jingdezhen, Jiangxi. All of it.
The article (not just a sentence in the lead) should build up from the initial kilns under the Southern Chen to major production under the Song and not start with the imperial kilns centuries later in the wrong dynasty. The kiln info should lead the article, along with other information about the use of kaolinite (and whatever the heck "pih-tun-tsze"/"pai-tun-tsze"/"petuntse" was) that made Jingdezhen so internationally prominent for its porcelain. Obviously kaolin is named for Gaoling Village in the same (medieval) county as Jingdezhen but why did Jingdezhen become the center for the local trade? and why was almost all of the raw material being imported from Qimen in Anhui by the mid-19th century (at least per the Enc. Brit., 9th ed.)? Had the local resources been exhausted? Are they still? etc. — LlywelynII 16:32, 22 June 2024 (UTC)