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Jian Ghomeshi has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/10/31/jian_ghomeshi_showed_cbc_video_of_bondage_beating_sources.html I think the "BigEarsTeddy" Tweet merits more detailed mention at this point. It's now being reported that it was what set off initial concerns. The TorStar is reporting that Ghomeshi spotted it back in April and became concerned. At this point Navigator was hired to represent both the CBC and Ghomeshi. Jesse Brown also spotted the Tweet at this point and began investigating -- which set everything rolling to get us where we are today. (Obviously this isn't the wording I'm requesting, but I think these are the relevant facts to include.)
This article also says that the CBC fired Ghomeshi after viewing a video of him engaged in BDSM activities which he claimed were consensual. I'm not sure if this merits inclusion at this point, but I'd like to hear what others think. Tchaliburton ( talk) 23:01, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
Just adding on another piece of info that should be included: "Two women have come forward to Toronto Police about Jian Ghomeshi and an investigation has begun, police spokesman Mark Pugash said." http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/two-women-come-forward-to-police-about-ghomeshi/article21416903/ Tchaliburton ( talk) 00:10, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Yet another new piece of info: Lights has dropped him as a manager. The section that mentions him managing her should be updated accordingly. http://www.blogto.com/arts/2014/10/jian_ghomeshi_dumped_by_agent/ http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/10/31/lights-jian-ghomeshi_n_6085248.html Tchaliburton ( talk) 05:28, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Penguin Books, which had published his 2012 memoir, has also dropped him [1] abandoning plans to publish his second book. K7L ( talk) 15:33, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Kelapstick pointed out in one of their edit summaries that this article uses US dates. I've noticed we're going back and forth between dmy and mdy. We should pick one and stick to it. I've been through this debate a few times on Wikipedia, and in my experience there is no consensus for which date format to use for Canada articles, as there is no standard date format (sources differ on this). Our date and time notation in Canada article deals almost exclusively with how Microsoft Windows handles Canadian dates, which I've often found to be wrong, and the article has had a factual accuracy debate going for some time. I've always found it best to just use whichever date format is already in use most commonly, which in this case seems to be mdy, or the US format. There are a few dmy dates in use here that should be reversed. Ivanvector ( talk) 15:13, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
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A few little typos: a "for" that should be "by", a misspelling of "according" and a misspelling of "Ghomeshi"
On October 26, 2014 the CBC announced the end of Ghomeshi's tenure as host,[18] with a CBC spokesman saying "information came to our attention recently that in CBC's judgment precludes us from continuing our relationship with Jian."[18] Later that day, Ghomeshi announced plans to launch a $50 million lawsuit against the CBC "claiming general and punitive damages for among other things, breach of confidence and bad faith".[19] Ghomeshi subsequently released a statement on Facebook saying his dismissal was motivated by fear of an alleged smear campaign by an ex-girlfriend that according to Ghomeshi could release private details about his sexual life.[20]
The Toronto Star published the allegations of three women who said that they experienced violence from Ghomeshi without consent, as well as a former CBC colleague who alleged that Ghomeshi had sexually harassed her in the workplace.[21] A fifth woman gave an interview to CBC Radio's As It Happens on October 29, also alleging that Ghomeshi physically abused her without her consent on their first date.[22] By October 30, nine women had approached media outlets with abuse allegations against Ghomeshi.[23] Actress Lucy DeCoutere was the first woman to agree to the publication of her name in conjunction with the allegations,[24] followed by Huffington Post blogger and lawyer Reva Seth who went on the record with abuse allegations against Ghomeshi.[25] On October 30, Carleton University announced that it would investigate allegations made in April 2014 against Ghomeshi by an anonymous Twitter account.[26] Toronto Police began an investigation into Ghomeshi following police complaints by three women, including DeCoutere.[27] The CBC announced that they would hire a third party to conduct an investigation.[28] Ghomeshi's lawyer has said his client "does not engage in non-consensual role play or sex and any suggestion of the contrary is defamatory."[21] OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 01:54, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
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I sent a wholesome, noncontroversial edit request earlier, it is a photo of JG being interviewed. It is from Wikimedia Commons. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 23:49, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Suanne Kelman posted at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Talk:Jian_Ghomeshi, and says she is not concerned about the use of the photo on the article. -- GRuban ( talk) 18:30, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
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Please add the bolded text. Lights has cut her ties with JG http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/10/31/toronto-police-launch-criminal-investigation-into-jian-ghomeshi-after-two-women-come-forward/
Having managed musician Martina Sorbara (now of the band Dragonette) and produced for Dar Williams through his production company, Jian Ghomeshi Productions Inc., he managed the Juno Award winning artist, Lights, from 2007 to 2014. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 01:10, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
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Under the "Early Life" section, please modify the description of Mr. Ghomeshi's studies at York University, which currently indicates he graduated with degrees in political science and history. According to an article in the National Post, he also minored in women's studies.
"Cute and awkward in equal measure, the book reads like a pick-up line in 12 chapters, and creates the impression of a mop-haired New Wave David Bowie fanatic, a theatre geek who minored in women’s studies, introspective and sensitive, ambitious and talented, reflecting on his suburban immigrant childhood from his throne atop Canada’s public broadcaster." [1]
"By the time he was at York University, studying politics, history and women’s studies, he was an activist on left-wing causes and was elected president of the student government." [2]
I propose this modification because there have been numerous seemingly incorrect claims made on social media that Mr. Ghomeshi "majored in" women's studies, and it would be helpful to include on his Wikipedia page a source for the accurate statement that he studied and minored in women's studies.
References
TrulyTessa ( talk) 15:09, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
The detailed description of his BA is from an intern-written piece
here calls it a combined BA in History and Political Science from York University, with a minor in women studies
. This description is roughly close to that given by Ghomeshi himself,
here, who calls it a political science major/history minor with women’s studies as a minor as well.
No matter what, it's only a single degree, basically a PoliSci B.A. with a couple of minor areas of study listed. Minors contribute to a degree, but aren't degrees themselves. If we want to modify the article, it should just match the wording in an actual source, without implying he has more than one degree. He says himself that he only ended up with one actual major.
__ E L A Q U E A T E
17:39, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
I'm closing this edit request because the corrected information has been added to the article already. Any editor may revert, of course. Ivanvector ( talk) 18:36, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
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Jian Ghomeshi has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please update. Toronto Star reports they have launched investigation into Jian Ghomeshi. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/10/31/jian_ghomeshi_showed_cbc_video_of_bondage_beating_sources.html
Ryan Van Horne ( talk) 08:48, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
In response to DeCoutere's report along with one of the anonymous women, Toronto Police launched a investigation on October 31. [1] The CBC announced that they would hire a third party to conduct an internal investigation. [2] Ghomeshi's lawyer has said his client "does not engage in non-consensual role play or sex and any suggestion of the contrary is defamatory." [3]
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Ivanvector ( talk) 14:43, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
There are now three women who have approached police. Here is my suggestion:
As of November 1 [update] DeCoutere and two women who have not been publicly named have complained to Toronto Police. [1] Toronto Police launched a investigation on October 31. [2] Ghomeshi has not been charged As of November 1 [update]. Police have said he will be asked to come in to discuss the allegations though they are not aware of his location. The CBC announced that they would hire a third party to conduct an internal investigation. [3] Toronto Police have said they will be reaching out to the CBC in regards to "graphic evidence" that resulted in his firing. Ghomeshi's lawyer has previously said his client "does not engage in non-consensual role play or sex and any suggestion of the contrary is defamatory." [4]
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Tchaliburton ( talk) 16:41, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Proposing a slightly more conservative version of your section. I'm concerned that stating that he hasn't been charged implies that he will be, and we would need sources making that link in order to include it. It's also possible this request is stale because of new information, in which case I suggest we mark this section closed for the sake of organizing the requests here.
Toronto Police launched a investigation on October 31 after receiving complaints from three women, including DeCoutere. [1] [2] Police have said he will be asked to come in to discuss the allegations though they are not aware of his location. The CBC announced that they would hire a third party to conduct an internal investigation. [3] Toronto Police have said they will be reaching out to the CBC in regards to "graphic evidence" that resulted in his firing. Ghomeshi's lawyer has previously said his client "does not engage in non-consensual role play or sex and any suggestion of the contrary is defamatory." [4]
Ivanvector ( talk) 16:19, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
A few points which either are already cited to WP:RS on this talk page (but are not in the article) or were removed from the article:
Is this info that should be in the article? It's widely covered in mainstream sources. K7L ( talk) 17:41, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
“He decided to take some time while we get more clarity around this situation,” Thompson saidaccording to the National Post. We cannot say that he's taking time off while the allegations are investigated because to do so is WP:SYNTH and misrepresents the situation: it implies that he's taking leave because of those allegations and we have no proof of that. Ca2james ( talk) 18:46, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
Re: this edit
@ Tchaliburton: the source given (MTV) mentions that Thornton's band dropped out of the tour the day after being jeered at their performance in Toronto, when the crowd booed them specifically in reference to his interview on Q. However it doesn't say anything about a band member having the flu - it might have been removed from the source in a subsequent update, the online sources do that sometimes. Can I suggest we mention it this way: "... many fans chanted "Here comes the gravy!"[25] The next day, Nelson announced that the Boxmasters had dropped off the tour.[MTV source]" Ivanvector ( talk) 18:23, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
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Near the end of the last section, add one line:
2001:5C0:1000:A:0:0:0:45F ( talk) 22:36, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
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This section is getting too long again, it's now about a third of the article and the content is creeping into other sections. It needs to be shortened by tightening wording, removing non-core details or careful summarisation. Please read WP:BALASPS before adding any new content related to the allegations and lawsuit. Feel free to add details of Jians' life prior to 2014. Stuartyeates ( talk) 19:28, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
Per WP:SIZE, "content should not be removed from articles simply to reduce length." To balance the article I think it's only fair to mention the CBC's response to the suit. It might be better to rewrite it in someone else's words rather than quoting the CBC directly. Tchaliburton ( talk) 03:41, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
The statement On October 23, the CBC claimed it viewed.. is incorrect, the way the article reads is they made the claim on October 23, they did not. They saw the video on October 23 but did not make any statement until well after Ghomeshi was fired. As far as I can tell the CBC did not say they saw the video until their October 31 memo ( here). I had changed the wording, but it seems to have been reverted back. -- kelapstick( bainuu) 12:36, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
So http://www.jian.ca/ is down. Do we link to the archive at https://web.archive.org/web/20141027011439/http://www.jian.ca ? It still works and there's lots of content there. Stuartyeates ( talk) 20:55, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
If the site is blank, it should be removed for the time being. We can always readd it later if any substantive content is ever actually put back up — but in the meantime it serves no substantive purpose to offer readers a convenience link to a blank domain. Bearcat ( talk) 20:41, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
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Under Career/Music:
CHANGE: Privately, Ghomeshi was disparaging of his audiences, suggesting on a 1996 video tape released in 2014 that people paying to see the band's shows were "losers" and "fucking idiots". TO: Some interpreted a 1996 video of a Simpsons parody song as Ghomeshi privately speaking of his disdain for his audience. SOURCE: http://www.edge.ca/2014/11/04/jian-simpsons/
96.227.77.71 (
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01:44, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
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Anupmehra -
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13:27, 19 November 2014 (UTC)The key problem here, more than the source itself, is the fact that it's speculating about a possible alternative explanation of the comments. If Ghomeshi ever goes on the record as explaining that their interpretation is correct, then we could certainly mention that — but as long as it's entirely unverified speculation about what he might have been doing, it's not appropriate for inclusion here. CFNY-FM can certainly be a valid source for Wikipedia content in some contexts, but this isn't one of them. Bearcat ( talk) 19:41, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Jean was his name before he changed it to Jian, plus lots more details that can be gleamed from this thorough Maclean's article: http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/jian-ghomeshi-how-he-got-away-with-it/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dave Shishkoff ( talk • contribs) 06:24, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
I still think the article as a whole is too focused on recent allegations. I'd like to make three independent suggestions. I'll put them into separate subsections, for easier discussion. Stuartyeates ( talk) 07:15, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
I see no evidence that Penguin intended to publish his second book. Stuartyeates ( talk) 07:15, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Ghomeshi released a memoir in 2012 but on Friday his publisher announced it would not be publishing his next book.
The paras "In the spring of 2014..." and "On October 23, the CBC..." are based on he-said, she-said stories released after the fact when the releasing parties already had a vested interest. That makes them gossip, PR spin or worse. Some is also sourced to primary sources (i.e. the CBC saying hat the CBC did). It also contains weasel words: "behaviour MAY have crossed". Stuartyeates ( talk) 07:15, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
This appears to be based largely on the content of a stand-up routine. Stand-up routines are a divorced from reality, this is not a reliable source, even if repeated in the press as truth. Stuartyeates ( talk) 07:15, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
I made an edit today to condense the allegations section; posting my rationale here because I removed some properly sourced stuff. I split the paragraph announcing the various investigations, and moved his quote through his lawyer to the paragraph mentioning the filing and dropping of the lawsuit, because it seemed to make sense there. I think there's enough in there already about the CBC investigation, and the Carleton investigation doesn't seem to have resulted in anything or at least no more news about it, so I just took it out. The Toronto Police investigation resulted in charges, so I don't think we need to say that they started investigating any more. So in effect I removed that entire paragraph.
I'm not going to object to anyone reverting the edit, it was quite bold, but please discuss here. Ivanvector ( talk) 17:21, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
Seems Tchaliburton added back all of the material I removed. Can we establish a consensus here? Ivanvector ( talk) 18:18, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
"In the spring of 2014 Ghomeshi advised his employers at the CBC that the Toronto Star was looking into allegations by an ex-girlfriend that he had engaged in non-consensual rough sex." There's a word for "non-consensual rough sex". Shouldn't the article use it? Or at least "sexual assault." "Non-consensual rough sex" just sounds like someone trying to avoid saying the word 'rape' in front of a child. 123.3.123.204 ( talk) 19:21, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
![]() | This
edit request to
Jian Ghomeshi has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/10/31/jian_ghomeshi_showed_cbc_video_of_bondage_beating_sources.html I think the "BigEarsTeddy" Tweet merits more detailed mention at this point. It's now being reported that it was what set off initial concerns. The TorStar is reporting that Ghomeshi spotted it back in April and became concerned. At this point Navigator was hired to represent both the CBC and Ghomeshi. Jesse Brown also spotted the Tweet at this point and began investigating -- which set everything rolling to get us where we are today. (Obviously this isn't the wording I'm requesting, but I think these are the relevant facts to include.)
This article also says that the CBC fired Ghomeshi after viewing a video of him engaged in BDSM activities which he claimed were consensual. I'm not sure if this merits inclusion at this point, but I'd like to hear what others think. Tchaliburton ( talk) 23:01, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
Just adding on another piece of info that should be included: "Two women have come forward to Toronto Police about Jian Ghomeshi and an investigation has begun, police spokesman Mark Pugash said." http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/two-women-come-forward-to-police-about-ghomeshi/article21416903/ Tchaliburton ( talk) 00:10, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Yet another new piece of info: Lights has dropped him as a manager. The section that mentions him managing her should be updated accordingly. http://www.blogto.com/arts/2014/10/jian_ghomeshi_dumped_by_agent/ http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/10/31/lights-jian-ghomeshi_n_6085248.html Tchaliburton ( talk) 05:28, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Penguin Books, which had published his 2012 memoir, has also dropped him [1] abandoning plans to publish his second book. K7L ( talk) 15:33, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Kelapstick pointed out in one of their edit summaries that this article uses US dates. I've noticed we're going back and forth between dmy and mdy. We should pick one and stick to it. I've been through this debate a few times on Wikipedia, and in my experience there is no consensus for which date format to use for Canada articles, as there is no standard date format (sources differ on this). Our date and time notation in Canada article deals almost exclusively with how Microsoft Windows handles Canadian dates, which I've often found to be wrong, and the article has had a factual accuracy debate going for some time. I've always found it best to just use whichever date format is already in use most commonly, which in this case seems to be mdy, or the US format. There are a few dmy dates in use here that should be reversed. Ivanvector ( talk) 15:13, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
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A few little typos: a "for" that should be "by", a misspelling of "according" and a misspelling of "Ghomeshi"
On October 26, 2014 the CBC announced the end of Ghomeshi's tenure as host,[18] with a CBC spokesman saying "information came to our attention recently that in CBC's judgment precludes us from continuing our relationship with Jian."[18] Later that day, Ghomeshi announced plans to launch a $50 million lawsuit against the CBC "claiming general and punitive damages for among other things, breach of confidence and bad faith".[19] Ghomeshi subsequently released a statement on Facebook saying his dismissal was motivated by fear of an alleged smear campaign by an ex-girlfriend that according to Ghomeshi could release private details about his sexual life.[20]
The Toronto Star published the allegations of three women who said that they experienced violence from Ghomeshi without consent, as well as a former CBC colleague who alleged that Ghomeshi had sexually harassed her in the workplace.[21] A fifth woman gave an interview to CBC Radio's As It Happens on October 29, also alleging that Ghomeshi physically abused her without her consent on their first date.[22] By October 30, nine women had approached media outlets with abuse allegations against Ghomeshi.[23] Actress Lucy DeCoutere was the first woman to agree to the publication of her name in conjunction with the allegations,[24] followed by Huffington Post blogger and lawyer Reva Seth who went on the record with abuse allegations against Ghomeshi.[25] On October 30, Carleton University announced that it would investigate allegations made in April 2014 against Ghomeshi by an anonymous Twitter account.[26] Toronto Police began an investigation into Ghomeshi following police complaints by three women, including DeCoutere.[27] The CBC announced that they would hire a third party to conduct an investigation.[28] Ghomeshi's lawyer has said his client "does not engage in non-consensual role play or sex and any suggestion of the contrary is defamatory."[21] OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 01:54, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
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I sent a wholesome, noncontroversial edit request earlier, it is a photo of JG being interviewed. It is from Wikimedia Commons. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 23:49, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Suanne Kelman posted at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Talk:Jian_Ghomeshi, and says she is not concerned about the use of the photo on the article. -- GRuban ( talk) 18:30, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
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Please add the bolded text. Lights has cut her ties with JG http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/10/31/toronto-police-launch-criminal-investigation-into-jian-ghomeshi-after-two-women-come-forward/
Having managed musician Martina Sorbara (now of the band Dragonette) and produced for Dar Williams through his production company, Jian Ghomeshi Productions Inc., he managed the Juno Award winning artist, Lights, from 2007 to 2014. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 01:10, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
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Under the "Early Life" section, please modify the description of Mr. Ghomeshi's studies at York University, which currently indicates he graduated with degrees in political science and history. According to an article in the National Post, he also minored in women's studies.
"Cute and awkward in equal measure, the book reads like a pick-up line in 12 chapters, and creates the impression of a mop-haired New Wave David Bowie fanatic, a theatre geek who minored in women’s studies, introspective and sensitive, ambitious and talented, reflecting on his suburban immigrant childhood from his throne atop Canada’s public broadcaster." [1]
"By the time he was at York University, studying politics, history and women’s studies, he was an activist on left-wing causes and was elected president of the student government." [2]
I propose this modification because there have been numerous seemingly incorrect claims made on social media that Mr. Ghomeshi "majored in" women's studies, and it would be helpful to include on his Wikipedia page a source for the accurate statement that he studied and minored in women's studies.
References
TrulyTessa ( talk) 15:09, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
The detailed description of his BA is from an intern-written piece
here calls it a combined BA in History and Political Science from York University, with a minor in women studies
. This description is roughly close to that given by Ghomeshi himself,
here, who calls it a political science major/history minor with women’s studies as a minor as well.
No matter what, it's only a single degree, basically a PoliSci B.A. with a couple of minor areas of study listed. Minors contribute to a degree, but aren't degrees themselves. If we want to modify the article, it should just match the wording in an actual source, without implying he has more than one degree. He says himself that he only ended up with one actual major.
__ E L A Q U E A T E
17:39, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
I'm closing this edit request because the corrected information has been added to the article already. Any editor may revert, of course. Ivanvector ( talk) 18:36, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
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Please update. Toronto Star reports they have launched investigation into Jian Ghomeshi. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/10/31/jian_ghomeshi_showed_cbc_video_of_bondage_beating_sources.html
Ryan Van Horne ( talk) 08:48, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
In response to DeCoutere's report along with one of the anonymous women, Toronto Police launched a investigation on October 31. [1] The CBC announced that they would hire a third party to conduct an internal investigation. [2] Ghomeshi's lawyer has said his client "does not engage in non-consensual role play or sex and any suggestion of the contrary is defamatory." [3]
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Ivanvector ( talk) 14:43, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
There are now three women who have approached police. Here is my suggestion:
As of November 1 [update] DeCoutere and two women who have not been publicly named have complained to Toronto Police. [1] Toronto Police launched a investigation on October 31. [2] Ghomeshi has not been charged As of November 1 [update]. Police have said he will be asked to come in to discuss the allegations though they are not aware of his location. The CBC announced that they would hire a third party to conduct an internal investigation. [3] Toronto Police have said they will be reaching out to the CBC in regards to "graphic evidence" that resulted in his firing. Ghomeshi's lawyer has previously said his client "does not engage in non-consensual role play or sex and any suggestion of the contrary is defamatory." [4]
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Tchaliburton ( talk) 16:41, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Proposing a slightly more conservative version of your section. I'm concerned that stating that he hasn't been charged implies that he will be, and we would need sources making that link in order to include it. It's also possible this request is stale because of new information, in which case I suggest we mark this section closed for the sake of organizing the requests here.
Toronto Police launched a investigation on October 31 after receiving complaints from three women, including DeCoutere. [1] [2] Police have said he will be asked to come in to discuss the allegations though they are not aware of his location. The CBC announced that they would hire a third party to conduct an internal investigation. [3] Toronto Police have said they will be reaching out to the CBC in regards to "graphic evidence" that resulted in his firing. Ghomeshi's lawyer has previously said his client "does not engage in non-consensual role play or sex and any suggestion of the contrary is defamatory." [4]
Ivanvector ( talk) 16:19, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
A few points which either are already cited to WP:RS on this talk page (but are not in the article) or were removed from the article:
Is this info that should be in the article? It's widely covered in mainstream sources. K7L ( talk) 17:41, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
“He decided to take some time while we get more clarity around this situation,” Thompson saidaccording to the National Post. We cannot say that he's taking time off while the allegations are investigated because to do so is WP:SYNTH and misrepresents the situation: it implies that he's taking leave because of those allegations and we have no proof of that. Ca2james ( talk) 18:46, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
Re: this edit
@ Tchaliburton: the source given (MTV) mentions that Thornton's band dropped out of the tour the day after being jeered at their performance in Toronto, when the crowd booed them specifically in reference to his interview on Q. However it doesn't say anything about a band member having the flu - it might have been removed from the source in a subsequent update, the online sources do that sometimes. Can I suggest we mention it this way: "... many fans chanted "Here comes the gravy!"[25] The next day, Nelson announced that the Boxmasters had dropped off the tour.[MTV source]" Ivanvector ( talk) 18:23, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
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Near the end of the last section, add one line:
2001:5C0:1000:A:0:0:0:45F ( talk) 22:36, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
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This section is getting too long again, it's now about a third of the article and the content is creeping into other sections. It needs to be shortened by tightening wording, removing non-core details or careful summarisation. Please read WP:BALASPS before adding any new content related to the allegations and lawsuit. Feel free to add details of Jians' life prior to 2014. Stuartyeates ( talk) 19:28, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
Per WP:SIZE, "content should not be removed from articles simply to reduce length." To balance the article I think it's only fair to mention the CBC's response to the suit. It might be better to rewrite it in someone else's words rather than quoting the CBC directly. Tchaliburton ( talk) 03:41, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
The statement On October 23, the CBC claimed it viewed.. is incorrect, the way the article reads is they made the claim on October 23, they did not. They saw the video on October 23 but did not make any statement until well after Ghomeshi was fired. As far as I can tell the CBC did not say they saw the video until their October 31 memo ( here). I had changed the wording, but it seems to have been reverted back. -- kelapstick( bainuu) 12:36, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
So http://www.jian.ca/ is down. Do we link to the archive at https://web.archive.org/web/20141027011439/http://www.jian.ca ? It still works and there's lots of content there. Stuartyeates ( talk) 20:55, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
If the site is blank, it should be removed for the time being. We can always readd it later if any substantive content is ever actually put back up — but in the meantime it serves no substantive purpose to offer readers a convenience link to a blank domain. Bearcat ( talk) 20:41, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
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Under Career/Music:
CHANGE: Privately, Ghomeshi was disparaging of his audiences, suggesting on a 1996 video tape released in 2014 that people paying to see the band's shows were "losers" and "fucking idiots". TO: Some interpreted a 1996 video of a Simpsons parody song as Ghomeshi privately speaking of his disdain for his audience. SOURCE: http://www.edge.ca/2014/11/04/jian-simpsons/
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13:27, 19 November 2014 (UTC)The key problem here, more than the source itself, is the fact that it's speculating about a possible alternative explanation of the comments. If Ghomeshi ever goes on the record as explaining that their interpretation is correct, then we could certainly mention that — but as long as it's entirely unverified speculation about what he might have been doing, it's not appropriate for inclusion here. CFNY-FM can certainly be a valid source for Wikipedia content in some contexts, but this isn't one of them. Bearcat ( talk) 19:41, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Jean was his name before he changed it to Jian, plus lots more details that can be gleamed from this thorough Maclean's article: http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/jian-ghomeshi-how-he-got-away-with-it/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dave Shishkoff ( talk • contribs) 06:24, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
I still think the article as a whole is too focused on recent allegations. I'd like to make three independent suggestions. I'll put them into separate subsections, for easier discussion. Stuartyeates ( talk) 07:15, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
I see no evidence that Penguin intended to publish his second book. Stuartyeates ( talk) 07:15, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Ghomeshi released a memoir in 2012 but on Friday his publisher announced it would not be publishing his next book.
The paras "In the spring of 2014..." and "On October 23, the CBC..." are based on he-said, she-said stories released after the fact when the releasing parties already had a vested interest. That makes them gossip, PR spin or worse. Some is also sourced to primary sources (i.e. the CBC saying hat the CBC did). It also contains weasel words: "behaviour MAY have crossed". Stuartyeates ( talk) 07:15, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
This appears to be based largely on the content of a stand-up routine. Stand-up routines are a divorced from reality, this is not a reliable source, even if repeated in the press as truth. Stuartyeates ( talk) 07:15, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
I made an edit today to condense the allegations section; posting my rationale here because I removed some properly sourced stuff. I split the paragraph announcing the various investigations, and moved his quote through his lawyer to the paragraph mentioning the filing and dropping of the lawsuit, because it seemed to make sense there. I think there's enough in there already about the CBC investigation, and the Carleton investigation doesn't seem to have resulted in anything or at least no more news about it, so I just took it out. The Toronto Police investigation resulted in charges, so I don't think we need to say that they started investigating any more. So in effect I removed that entire paragraph.
I'm not going to object to anyone reverting the edit, it was quite bold, but please discuss here. Ivanvector ( talk) 17:21, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
Seems Tchaliburton added back all of the material I removed. Can we establish a consensus here? Ivanvector ( talk) 18:18, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
"In the spring of 2014 Ghomeshi advised his employers at the CBC that the Toronto Star was looking into allegations by an ex-girlfriend that he had engaged in non-consensual rough sex." There's a word for "non-consensual rough sex". Shouldn't the article use it? Or at least "sexual assault." "Non-consensual rough sex" just sounds like someone trying to avoid saying the word 'rape' in front of a child. 123.3.123.204 ( talk) 19:21, 27 November 2014 (UTC)