This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Jenny Kwan article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is written in Canadian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, centre, travelled, realize, analyze) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This page is about an active politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. Because of this, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 3 September 2019 and 20 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): A.danderfer. Peer reviewers: Kwaaktime, Adriannaphillips.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 01:11, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Just a note re: Samaritan's edit: "(community legal counsel -> community legal worker as she was not an attorney)", the BC Government bio page uses the title "community advocate", which might be more appropriate instead of "worker". Minor distinction in any case. Southsloper 21:10, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
"Pinyin: Guān Hùizhēn" - why should that be here, if she's Cantonese speaking and not Mandarin speaking, and uses her name in a different Latinization reflecting her own kind of Chinese? Does it really matter how her name is spelled in Mandarin/Pinyin, any more than how it's spelled in Cyrillic or Armenian or in Polish or Hungarian alphabets?? Isn't it enough to have the Chinese characters? Why impose a name on her she doesn't use herself, or spell it that way herself? Skookum1 ( talk) 02:27, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
@ Darryl Kerrigan: I will refer to the China WikiProject. I anticipate that the Pinyin will be restored, because it is Standard Chinese that is universal to all ethnic Chinese matters. The Sinology community has always used Mandarin as the standard dialect. I read W. E. Willmott's article on the "small town" (towns other than Vancouver and Victoria) Chinese communities in BC in the 1960s, and the names of organizations were given in both Pinyin and Cantonese. (names of organizations are given on pages 31 and 34, explanations of names are on page 31) WhisperToMe ( talk) 02:54, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Colipon, by your logic, if she uses Punjabi in her campaign speeches or non-campaign speeches or her publications e.g. campaign brochures, then the Devanagari version of her name should be here too; and that mandarinization of Wikipedia has produced lots of examples of "but it's used in this other article so should be used here too" does not mean that they establish precedent in wiki-guideline terms.(there's an acronym for that false logic, I've forgotten it for now). Olivia Chow, too, has other-language constituents and she probably campaigns in what she knows of them, too. Vancouver politicians publish materials in at least half-a-dozen languages and various scripts. And compromise as usual means that the right way and the wrong/imposed way are compromised, or rather the right way is compromised into being half-wrong; truth and falsity cannot be compromised without truth becoming untruth; the same applies for correct and incorrect, good and evil. And that is a tool of self-serving and circular self-justifying arguments advancing the cause of incremental cultural imperialism as what I have seen going on, a very common one. Exclusionism and demands for compromise are the context and I've seen too much of it to be accepting of the notions being advanced, nor is logic. She has Russian-speaking constituents in Vancouver, and Korean and Japanese ones too; so include the Russian, Korean, Japanese and Devangari and Arabic and so on.
This is not Chinese Wikipedia, and WP:China's priorities should not be used to steamroll this agenda...but they have been doing so, and continue to do so....because people are not willing to do anything but compromise or accede by default, and they know this. The demands for official language status for Mandarin (not Cantonese) in BC that emerged at one point were part of this mentality, as is the resistance to ever deigning to speak the language of the colonized and remain apart and aloof. This is a POV matter...but it is being comprised by consensus and bulldozed, as is English Wikipedia. It's not the same as giving the Inuktitut scripts on an Inuk biography (an official language in NU btw) but something loaded with political-cultural intent. I will be outruled, and condemned as usual, but "this article over there uses it to" and "this other person does too" and "she uses it in her camnpaign speeches" are not valid logics, and whatever those acronyms are I can't remember they're about exactly these kinds of self-perpetuating claims of cultural necessity and they're against guidelines. But so is so much of WTM's arguments and how he argues and I've seen it before on the Gueilo, Chinaman, Chinaman (term) and Chinatown and related pages lots before - dismissive disdain for anyone who doesn't page-cite or doesn't own a book ref'd, for example, and massive walls of SYNTH constructs and distortions and selectivism and demands that he be obeyed NOW and more, always falling back on what sounds like reasonable speech, but always on the advance and attack and conquest of the field of debate, content and what can be mentioned and what not. It's straight out of the Art of War and I've seen it before on other China/Chinese-related battlefield titles; it's not right, but Wikipedia is suscept to compromise for compromise's sake, and not what's right or valid. So goes the world and the same agenda all over. Same kind of thing has gone over Tibet articles and others, and this goes back to UseNet days on the net.....it's not like it's all OK.....but hey, enjoy your compromise; I say it's wrong and the points raised are invalid in Wikipedia terms. But the victors write the history...and are into deleting it too. Especially when not page-cited for a person who will never physically possess the book, because he says so. I feel like vonnegut's hero in Cat's Cradle watching the water of the world incrementally, and then rapidly, morph into ice-nine. the scifi novel Guangzhuo also comes to mind....in a big way. Skookum1 ( talk) 19:24, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Jenny Kwan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:45, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Jenny Kwan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:09, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot ( talk) 19:07, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Jenny Kwan article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is written in Canadian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, centre, travelled, realize, analyze) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This page is about an active politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. Because of this, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 3 September 2019 and 20 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): A.danderfer. Peer reviewers: Kwaaktime, Adriannaphillips.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 01:11, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Just a note re: Samaritan's edit: "(community legal counsel -> community legal worker as she was not an attorney)", the BC Government bio page uses the title "community advocate", which might be more appropriate instead of "worker". Minor distinction in any case. Southsloper 21:10, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
"Pinyin: Guān Hùizhēn" - why should that be here, if she's Cantonese speaking and not Mandarin speaking, and uses her name in a different Latinization reflecting her own kind of Chinese? Does it really matter how her name is spelled in Mandarin/Pinyin, any more than how it's spelled in Cyrillic or Armenian or in Polish or Hungarian alphabets?? Isn't it enough to have the Chinese characters? Why impose a name on her she doesn't use herself, or spell it that way herself? Skookum1 ( talk) 02:27, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
@ Darryl Kerrigan: I will refer to the China WikiProject. I anticipate that the Pinyin will be restored, because it is Standard Chinese that is universal to all ethnic Chinese matters. The Sinology community has always used Mandarin as the standard dialect. I read W. E. Willmott's article on the "small town" (towns other than Vancouver and Victoria) Chinese communities in BC in the 1960s, and the names of organizations were given in both Pinyin and Cantonese. (names of organizations are given on pages 31 and 34, explanations of names are on page 31) WhisperToMe ( talk) 02:54, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Colipon, by your logic, if she uses Punjabi in her campaign speeches or non-campaign speeches or her publications e.g. campaign brochures, then the Devanagari version of her name should be here too; and that mandarinization of Wikipedia has produced lots of examples of "but it's used in this other article so should be used here too" does not mean that they establish precedent in wiki-guideline terms.(there's an acronym for that false logic, I've forgotten it for now). Olivia Chow, too, has other-language constituents and she probably campaigns in what she knows of them, too. Vancouver politicians publish materials in at least half-a-dozen languages and various scripts. And compromise as usual means that the right way and the wrong/imposed way are compromised, or rather the right way is compromised into being half-wrong; truth and falsity cannot be compromised without truth becoming untruth; the same applies for correct and incorrect, good and evil. And that is a tool of self-serving and circular self-justifying arguments advancing the cause of incremental cultural imperialism as what I have seen going on, a very common one. Exclusionism and demands for compromise are the context and I've seen too much of it to be accepting of the notions being advanced, nor is logic. She has Russian-speaking constituents in Vancouver, and Korean and Japanese ones too; so include the Russian, Korean, Japanese and Devangari and Arabic and so on.
This is not Chinese Wikipedia, and WP:China's priorities should not be used to steamroll this agenda...but they have been doing so, and continue to do so....because people are not willing to do anything but compromise or accede by default, and they know this. The demands for official language status for Mandarin (not Cantonese) in BC that emerged at one point were part of this mentality, as is the resistance to ever deigning to speak the language of the colonized and remain apart and aloof. This is a POV matter...but it is being comprised by consensus and bulldozed, as is English Wikipedia. It's not the same as giving the Inuktitut scripts on an Inuk biography (an official language in NU btw) but something loaded with political-cultural intent. I will be outruled, and condemned as usual, but "this article over there uses it to" and "this other person does too" and "she uses it in her camnpaign speeches" are not valid logics, and whatever those acronyms are I can't remember they're about exactly these kinds of self-perpetuating claims of cultural necessity and they're against guidelines. But so is so much of WTM's arguments and how he argues and I've seen it before on the Gueilo, Chinaman, Chinaman (term) and Chinatown and related pages lots before - dismissive disdain for anyone who doesn't page-cite or doesn't own a book ref'd, for example, and massive walls of SYNTH constructs and distortions and selectivism and demands that he be obeyed NOW and more, always falling back on what sounds like reasonable speech, but always on the advance and attack and conquest of the field of debate, content and what can be mentioned and what not. It's straight out of the Art of War and I've seen it before on other China/Chinese-related battlefield titles; it's not right, but Wikipedia is suscept to compromise for compromise's sake, and not what's right or valid. So goes the world and the same agenda all over. Same kind of thing has gone over Tibet articles and others, and this goes back to UseNet days on the net.....it's not like it's all OK.....but hey, enjoy your compromise; I say it's wrong and the points raised are invalid in Wikipedia terms. But the victors write the history...and are into deleting it too. Especially when not page-cited for a person who will never physically possess the book, because he says so. I feel like vonnegut's hero in Cat's Cradle watching the water of the world incrementally, and then rapidly, morph into ice-nine. the scifi novel Guangzhuo also comes to mind....in a big way. Skookum1 ( talk) 19:24, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Jenny Kwan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:45, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Jenny Kwan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:09, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot ( talk) 19:07, 12 July 2018 (UTC)