This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Jeffrey R. Holland article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The
Wikimedia Foundation's
Terms of Use require that editors disclose their "employer, client, and affiliation" with respect to any paid contribution; see
WP:PAID. For advice about reviewing paid contributions, see
WP:COIRESPONSE.
|
I removed the paragraph on Holland's meeting with Romney's sons for two reasons. First, the facts of this meeting are widely disputed. Both Romney's campaign advisers and leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints deny this being anymore than a courtesy call given to an old friend. Holland has stated that he was clear throughout the meeting the Church and it's resources could not be used for political purposes.
Secondly, and more importantly, this is irrelevant to the life of Jeffrey Holland. It gives no information as to who he is and what his major life accomplishments are. However, if the Wikipedian consensus is that this paragraph should definitely be included I would recommend moving it to a more appropriate location such as the page on Mitt Romney and his campaign. 140.247.237.75 03:42, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Manticore55 21:13, 7 October 2007 (UTC)Members of the Church of Latter Day saints often dispute anything that they do not agree that conforms with their point of view of things regarding the church.. However, the source of the article is a mainstream newspaper. You cannot simply say 'it is irrelevant' for your convenience. Furthermore, it is extremely relevant to the life of Jeffery Holland, because Mitt Romney is a direct son of an apostle, of which Jeffery R. Holland is also a member. If Jeffery Holland is the person involved in the meeting, then it is relevant to Jeffery R. Holland's life.
Finally, and most important of all, the text in question is not stating factually that this is what Mr. Holland intended, it is stating what the newspaper reported as happening. I can begin to add more sources and more information to establish more content and context if you wish, but the fact is, that when a member of the Quorum of the Twelve meets with the son of a Member of the Quorum of the Twelve, who also happens to be a major presidential candidate, then that is important, it is timely, and it is relevant.
I Have to argee.I removed this paragrpah awhile back and then it seemed to get reverted back. But Now with Romney out and the Nomaintion almost certainly going to Mcain. It seems really Insinfance.The problem with wiki well one of the many is that these nerds with nothing better to try and cram any bit of infronmation they can. I Mean seriously is anyone going to gie a hoot about Elder Holland meeting with Romeny, down the line. No one cares that David O.Mckay met with Richard M. Nixon. I mean seriously. Plus the papragraph was written in a way to cast doubt on the church stance of politcaillt neturallity. which if you inssit that meeting has to be in the atricle. I mean we have do something to make this useless website seem like it matters than at least writre from a nertual stand point. Assuming there is such a thing_______Coalhouse —Preceding unsigned comment added by Coalhouse ( talk • contribs) 02:37, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
I was originally going to address the October talk. It was a powerful talk, however I think in this case letting time tell will be good. I have read some comments on the Deseret News board of people speaking very highly of the talk, and as evidence that the talk is well recieved it is good. Yet that alone does not make it notable. So I would say, let time tell. However I realized the April talk which seems to have gone viral (the Deseret News ran an article on it doing so) might be worth mentioning. I have never figured out the full issue of talks. However, I guess I am partly responding to the misplaced criticism and reasoning for just removing the reference that existed before. True, netiehr Ethan Smith nor Solomon Spaulding were critics of the Book of Mormon, but the reference to them that was removed reflected the fact that the writer had not understood Elder Hollands reference to them, and the phrases could have been rewritten to reflect what Elder Holland actually said. His point was that the Spaulding and Ethan Smith theories or the origin of the Book of Mormon have so many holes that they colapse on their own weight, and I think since I have held close to the words Elder Holland used I may have unintentionally illustrated the reason the writer of the addition made the mistake. If we speak of the Copernican model of the solar system we speak of what Copernicus developed, and in the same way it might seem that the "Ethan Smith theory" is one developed by Ethan Smith. In this case it is that Joseph Smith was influenced by Ethan Smith, a theory that is so weak that BYU has published Ethan Smith's work because if people are actually confronted with his work and have it to compare to the Book of Mormon the two just do not coincide enough in anyway for Ethan to be a source of the Book of Mormon. My point is, if that were the only issue with the edit, than a rewriting to make it clear what Elder Holland was speaking against would be all that was required. I would however say that the issue of speech notability is the first to takle, and I would say we have to weigh in that Elder Holland made reference to semitic phrases in the Book of Mormon, it was not more than a passing reference, but this leads to the other question, if a speech is notable, how do we decide how to sumerize it, of course to me this takes us straight to the two-edged sword of no original reasearch on one side but no plagerizing on the other, which leads me to say if a talk has not even had its official text published, than maybe we can at least wait a little before mentioning it in wikipedia. There are probably exceptions, but this would not be one. Johnpacklambert ( talk) 03:02, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
I have added the reference to Holland's April 2009 General COnference talk with a clear source. I have also decided that including his October 2009 conference talk is justifiable, but we still need sources on it, and need to make sure we accurattely reflect what he said. Johnpacklambert ( talk) 01:57, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Any way we can update this article with a newer photo of Elder Holland? Why not just use the one from his LDS.org profile? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.65.186.125 ( talk) 17:25, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Jeffrey R. Holland. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 00:32, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Jeffrey R. Holland. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:26, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Jeffrey R. Holland. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:57, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
Because of the frequent vandalizing and inappropriate additions to this page, has anyone considered semi-protecting it? Skyes(BYU) ( talk) 22:21, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
There should really be a paragraph about his controversial views on the lgbt community. The man specifically called for 'musket fire aimed at the enemy'. This should be addressed. Controversy should be a common category for any pages about significant figures. Including the good and the bad is the only way to present a topic without bias. And in the interest of bias, I don't trust myself to write the section. 184.146.47.17 ( talk) 20:24, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Hello. With the death of M. Russell Ballard yesterday, Holland is now the most senior apostle not in the First Presidency. As such, he is now essentially the de facto Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, and is likely to be set apart in that assignment officially at some point after Ballard's funeral services are held. Since a deceased apostle cannot serve in a living apostolic role, what, if anything, should we note on Holland's biography about this? Thanks. User:Jgstokes ( talk)—We can disagree without becoming disagreeable. 17:19, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Jeffrey R. Holland article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The
Wikimedia Foundation's
Terms of Use require that editors disclose their "employer, client, and affiliation" with respect to any paid contribution; see
WP:PAID. For advice about reviewing paid contributions, see
WP:COIRESPONSE.
|
I removed the paragraph on Holland's meeting with Romney's sons for two reasons. First, the facts of this meeting are widely disputed. Both Romney's campaign advisers and leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints deny this being anymore than a courtesy call given to an old friend. Holland has stated that he was clear throughout the meeting the Church and it's resources could not be used for political purposes.
Secondly, and more importantly, this is irrelevant to the life of Jeffrey Holland. It gives no information as to who he is and what his major life accomplishments are. However, if the Wikipedian consensus is that this paragraph should definitely be included I would recommend moving it to a more appropriate location such as the page on Mitt Romney and his campaign. 140.247.237.75 03:42, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Manticore55 21:13, 7 October 2007 (UTC)Members of the Church of Latter Day saints often dispute anything that they do not agree that conforms with their point of view of things regarding the church.. However, the source of the article is a mainstream newspaper. You cannot simply say 'it is irrelevant' for your convenience. Furthermore, it is extremely relevant to the life of Jeffery Holland, because Mitt Romney is a direct son of an apostle, of which Jeffery R. Holland is also a member. If Jeffery Holland is the person involved in the meeting, then it is relevant to Jeffery R. Holland's life.
Finally, and most important of all, the text in question is not stating factually that this is what Mr. Holland intended, it is stating what the newspaper reported as happening. I can begin to add more sources and more information to establish more content and context if you wish, but the fact is, that when a member of the Quorum of the Twelve meets with the son of a Member of the Quorum of the Twelve, who also happens to be a major presidential candidate, then that is important, it is timely, and it is relevant.
I Have to argee.I removed this paragrpah awhile back and then it seemed to get reverted back. But Now with Romney out and the Nomaintion almost certainly going to Mcain. It seems really Insinfance.The problem with wiki well one of the many is that these nerds with nothing better to try and cram any bit of infronmation they can. I Mean seriously is anyone going to gie a hoot about Elder Holland meeting with Romeny, down the line. No one cares that David O.Mckay met with Richard M. Nixon. I mean seriously. Plus the papragraph was written in a way to cast doubt on the church stance of politcaillt neturallity. which if you inssit that meeting has to be in the atricle. I mean we have do something to make this useless website seem like it matters than at least writre from a nertual stand point. Assuming there is such a thing_______Coalhouse —Preceding unsigned comment added by Coalhouse ( talk • contribs) 02:37, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
I was originally going to address the October talk. It was a powerful talk, however I think in this case letting time tell will be good. I have read some comments on the Deseret News board of people speaking very highly of the talk, and as evidence that the talk is well recieved it is good. Yet that alone does not make it notable. So I would say, let time tell. However I realized the April talk which seems to have gone viral (the Deseret News ran an article on it doing so) might be worth mentioning. I have never figured out the full issue of talks. However, I guess I am partly responding to the misplaced criticism and reasoning for just removing the reference that existed before. True, netiehr Ethan Smith nor Solomon Spaulding were critics of the Book of Mormon, but the reference to them that was removed reflected the fact that the writer had not understood Elder Hollands reference to them, and the phrases could have been rewritten to reflect what Elder Holland actually said. His point was that the Spaulding and Ethan Smith theories or the origin of the Book of Mormon have so many holes that they colapse on their own weight, and I think since I have held close to the words Elder Holland used I may have unintentionally illustrated the reason the writer of the addition made the mistake. If we speak of the Copernican model of the solar system we speak of what Copernicus developed, and in the same way it might seem that the "Ethan Smith theory" is one developed by Ethan Smith. In this case it is that Joseph Smith was influenced by Ethan Smith, a theory that is so weak that BYU has published Ethan Smith's work because if people are actually confronted with his work and have it to compare to the Book of Mormon the two just do not coincide enough in anyway for Ethan to be a source of the Book of Mormon. My point is, if that were the only issue with the edit, than a rewriting to make it clear what Elder Holland was speaking against would be all that was required. I would however say that the issue of speech notability is the first to takle, and I would say we have to weigh in that Elder Holland made reference to semitic phrases in the Book of Mormon, it was not more than a passing reference, but this leads to the other question, if a speech is notable, how do we decide how to sumerize it, of course to me this takes us straight to the two-edged sword of no original reasearch on one side but no plagerizing on the other, which leads me to say if a talk has not even had its official text published, than maybe we can at least wait a little before mentioning it in wikipedia. There are probably exceptions, but this would not be one. Johnpacklambert ( talk) 03:02, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
I have added the reference to Holland's April 2009 General COnference talk with a clear source. I have also decided that including his October 2009 conference talk is justifiable, but we still need sources on it, and need to make sure we accurattely reflect what he said. Johnpacklambert ( talk) 01:57, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Any way we can update this article with a newer photo of Elder Holland? Why not just use the one from his LDS.org profile? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.65.186.125 ( talk) 17:25, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Jeffrey R. Holland. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 00:32, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Jeffrey R. Holland. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:26, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Jeffrey R. Holland. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:57, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
Because of the frequent vandalizing and inappropriate additions to this page, has anyone considered semi-protecting it? Skyes(BYU) ( talk) 22:21, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
There should really be a paragraph about his controversial views on the lgbt community. The man specifically called for 'musket fire aimed at the enemy'. This should be addressed. Controversy should be a common category for any pages about significant figures. Including the good and the bad is the only way to present a topic without bias. And in the interest of bias, I don't trust myself to write the section. 184.146.47.17 ( talk) 20:24, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Hello. With the death of M. Russell Ballard yesterday, Holland is now the most senior apostle not in the First Presidency. As such, he is now essentially the de facto Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, and is likely to be set apart in that assignment officially at some point after Ballard's funeral services are held. Since a deceased apostle cannot serve in a living apostolic role, what, if anything, should we note on Holland's biography about this? Thanks. User:Jgstokes ( talk)—We can disagree without becoming disagreeable. 17:19, 13 November 2023 (UTC)