This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
At the time of this edit, that information is contested on the template talk page. I removed it for that reason. If you have any comments on it, please visit {{ Infobox NFLactive}}. Juan Miguel Fangio| ►Chat 07:27, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot ( talk) 19:18, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Do we want an article about this player on Wikipedia or don't we? Do we want it to be complete, to include information about him, about his life, the way he plays football, about the important games and seasons he's played through in his career? If it conforms to the Biography of Living People guidelines, isn't what Wikipedia is not, and is well referenced, shouldn't it be included? Shouldn't ANY article be as fleshed-out and vibrant WITHIN those guidelines as we can make it?
That's what a Good Article is, right? For crying out loud, is this article supposed to be a stub or a biography?
But this isn't a reproach on just this one article, it's also about hundreds of other NFL-related articles on Wikipedia, semi-stubs suffering from the very same malaise as this one.
Because I'd be willing to help write some decent biographies if I have the time and am given the chance. But I don't have that chance if someone or another is going to delete everything right after it's been added. That isn't what Wikipedia is about. That kind of deplorable behavior is not going to add to this wonderful site.
The spirit of Wikipedia's policies are to ensure that high quality articles can flourish, and that low quality articles can be eliminated. The spirit - and the direct language - of these policies is not to strangle the content out of the site just for the sake of maintaining letter-of-the-law continuity. There wouldn't be any content worth reading if the spirit of those guidelines was ignored.
I want to improve this article. It started as a simple look-up; wanting to learn a bit more about Jeff Saturday, it grabbed me how lacking the article was. It was surprising to me that as little as I knew about him, Wikipedia had even less. Major - and widely reported - parts of this player's life were omitted. And when I and others have tried to add those pieces to his page over what appears to be more than a year of edits, that information is swiftly deleted. I didn't come here looking for a struggle. My assumption was that the simple explanation was correct. It was quite simply that no one had gotten around to it yet. It disturbs me greatly that this isn't the case at all. People HAVE gotten around to it, repeatedly. People have tried to add to this article many, many times - some with botched attempts, granted - but even when properly referenced, when they have the truth on their side and the information is factual, they are repeatedly turned down.
If I didn't know better, I'd think it was a conspiracy. Against adding information in general? Targeting this player specifically? Against changing a particular author's format or wording? I have no idea. But it stinks.
The thing is, I know it's not a conspiracy. It's misguided, against Wikipedia's policies, anti-productive, negative, and just plain strange, but it's most likely individual users merely misunderstanding a few ideas or a wordy policy or two and taking things way too far.
Whatever the reason, whoever the user, it needs to stop.
I implore whomever is reading this, please, allow these articles to get better. Everything I've added has been properly referenced. It's been factual, widely reported, and easy to find from reputable sources. Everything I've added has conformed to previously defined formatting and every addition or improvement has a precedent that can be found in numerous other Wikipedia articles in the same category.
All I wanted to do was improve an article that I noticed could distinctly use what limited additional knowledge I had on the subject. That was all. The barriers and treatment I've run into since then have soured my taste for this site. I have very limited time to do any of this. As a working writer on a strange schedule at times, adding to Wikipedia where I could seemed like something nice to do when I had nothing better. But my time on the site has been far more oppressive than inclusive, and if - because of a few misguided individuals - an article about some NFL center can't even be expanded within Wikipedia's own guidelines, then it seems to me that I'd be wasting my time trying to make things better.
Which brings me to the most important question I have.
Is this deplorable nonsense going to stop? Or are hundreds of NFL-related articles on Wikipedia going to remain bleak, miserable excuses for biographies, leaving key, relevant information to the archives of news sites and to the electronic oblivion from whence they came?
- Smike ( talk) 10:47, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
As far as sourcing ending the debate - been there, tried that. Not only did the debate NOT end, it forced me to escalate it to this talk page in the first place. I'm really not sure what more I can do, and frankly - your admirable efforts notwithstanding - this is going to go on for a long time if some of those deletionaires don't get their collective behinds in here and start telling me what the Samwise-Gamgee their beef is.
Mindful of the on-going controversy between editors above, we also have a sourcing issue for Saturday's high school, the former Shamrock High School in unincorporated DeKalb County, Georgia. Shamrock was closed in 1996, the year after Saturday graduated, and the existing campus and buildings were retasked/converted into Druid Hills Middle School. NFL.com, Pro-Football-Reference.com and databaseFootball.com all mistakenly list Shamrock High School as being located in Tucker, Georgia. It is/was not. The U.S. Postal Service mailing address of the campus is 3100 Mount Olive Drive, Decatur, Georgia 30033. The campus is located northeast of Atlanta, north of Decatur, and west of Tucker, in an area of unincorporated DeKalb County. Notwithstanding that the NFL thinks the campus is in Tucker, this is factually incorrect. The former high school may be properly described as being located in DeKalb County, Georgia (physical location) or Decatur, Georgia (mailing address), but not Tucker, Georgia. Dirtlawyer1 ( talk) 12:28, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Jeff Saturday. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:25, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Jeff Saturday. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:00, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
I'm not an editor nor expert but Jeff Saturday returned to ESPN this morning on Get Up Ssalava42 ( talk) 12:48, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
At the time of this edit, that information is contested on the template talk page. I removed it for that reason. If you have any comments on it, please visit {{ Infobox NFLactive}}. Juan Miguel Fangio| ►Chat 07:27, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot ( talk) 19:18, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Do we want an article about this player on Wikipedia or don't we? Do we want it to be complete, to include information about him, about his life, the way he plays football, about the important games and seasons he's played through in his career? If it conforms to the Biography of Living People guidelines, isn't what Wikipedia is not, and is well referenced, shouldn't it be included? Shouldn't ANY article be as fleshed-out and vibrant WITHIN those guidelines as we can make it?
That's what a Good Article is, right? For crying out loud, is this article supposed to be a stub or a biography?
But this isn't a reproach on just this one article, it's also about hundreds of other NFL-related articles on Wikipedia, semi-stubs suffering from the very same malaise as this one.
Because I'd be willing to help write some decent biographies if I have the time and am given the chance. But I don't have that chance if someone or another is going to delete everything right after it's been added. That isn't what Wikipedia is about. That kind of deplorable behavior is not going to add to this wonderful site.
The spirit of Wikipedia's policies are to ensure that high quality articles can flourish, and that low quality articles can be eliminated. The spirit - and the direct language - of these policies is not to strangle the content out of the site just for the sake of maintaining letter-of-the-law continuity. There wouldn't be any content worth reading if the spirit of those guidelines was ignored.
I want to improve this article. It started as a simple look-up; wanting to learn a bit more about Jeff Saturday, it grabbed me how lacking the article was. It was surprising to me that as little as I knew about him, Wikipedia had even less. Major - and widely reported - parts of this player's life were omitted. And when I and others have tried to add those pieces to his page over what appears to be more than a year of edits, that information is swiftly deleted. I didn't come here looking for a struggle. My assumption was that the simple explanation was correct. It was quite simply that no one had gotten around to it yet. It disturbs me greatly that this isn't the case at all. People HAVE gotten around to it, repeatedly. People have tried to add to this article many, many times - some with botched attempts, granted - but even when properly referenced, when they have the truth on their side and the information is factual, they are repeatedly turned down.
If I didn't know better, I'd think it was a conspiracy. Against adding information in general? Targeting this player specifically? Against changing a particular author's format or wording? I have no idea. But it stinks.
The thing is, I know it's not a conspiracy. It's misguided, against Wikipedia's policies, anti-productive, negative, and just plain strange, but it's most likely individual users merely misunderstanding a few ideas or a wordy policy or two and taking things way too far.
Whatever the reason, whoever the user, it needs to stop.
I implore whomever is reading this, please, allow these articles to get better. Everything I've added has been properly referenced. It's been factual, widely reported, and easy to find from reputable sources. Everything I've added has conformed to previously defined formatting and every addition or improvement has a precedent that can be found in numerous other Wikipedia articles in the same category.
All I wanted to do was improve an article that I noticed could distinctly use what limited additional knowledge I had on the subject. That was all. The barriers and treatment I've run into since then have soured my taste for this site. I have very limited time to do any of this. As a working writer on a strange schedule at times, adding to Wikipedia where I could seemed like something nice to do when I had nothing better. But my time on the site has been far more oppressive than inclusive, and if - because of a few misguided individuals - an article about some NFL center can't even be expanded within Wikipedia's own guidelines, then it seems to me that I'd be wasting my time trying to make things better.
Which brings me to the most important question I have.
Is this deplorable nonsense going to stop? Or are hundreds of NFL-related articles on Wikipedia going to remain bleak, miserable excuses for biographies, leaving key, relevant information to the archives of news sites and to the electronic oblivion from whence they came?
- Smike ( talk) 10:47, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
As far as sourcing ending the debate - been there, tried that. Not only did the debate NOT end, it forced me to escalate it to this talk page in the first place. I'm really not sure what more I can do, and frankly - your admirable efforts notwithstanding - this is going to go on for a long time if some of those deletionaires don't get their collective behinds in here and start telling me what the Samwise-Gamgee their beef is.
Mindful of the on-going controversy between editors above, we also have a sourcing issue for Saturday's high school, the former Shamrock High School in unincorporated DeKalb County, Georgia. Shamrock was closed in 1996, the year after Saturday graduated, and the existing campus and buildings were retasked/converted into Druid Hills Middle School. NFL.com, Pro-Football-Reference.com and databaseFootball.com all mistakenly list Shamrock High School as being located in Tucker, Georgia. It is/was not. The U.S. Postal Service mailing address of the campus is 3100 Mount Olive Drive, Decatur, Georgia 30033. The campus is located northeast of Atlanta, north of Decatur, and west of Tucker, in an area of unincorporated DeKalb County. Notwithstanding that the NFL thinks the campus is in Tucker, this is factually incorrect. The former high school may be properly described as being located in DeKalb County, Georgia (physical location) or Decatur, Georgia (mailing address), but not Tucker, Georgia. Dirtlawyer1 ( talk) 12:28, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Jeff Saturday. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:25, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Jeff Saturday. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:00, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
I'm not an editor nor expert but Jeff Saturday returned to ESPN this morning on Get Up Ssalava42 ( talk) 12:48, 19 September 2023 (UTC)