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Here is an ideal example of how to turn lemons into lemonade. The original contents of this page was the following graffito:
So I looked up Jef Raskin on Google and took a couple of minutes to throw together a stub. -- Ed Poor
"His first computer program, a music program, was part of his master's thesis."
How likely is it that this was really his "first" program? Maybe something like "first large-scale program" or "first significant program"?
__________
Will be adding. He was the 31st employee of Apple and coined the name Macintosh and Information Appliance Jondel
Despite the mention of his son's authorship of the photo included, there is no mention of family and children in the text. Ought this be rectified? ~ Dpr 06:49, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Should we move that tribute to the talk page? mu5ti/ ✏ 22:37, Mar 6, 2005 (UTC)
The article says (as of 2005 Mar 14):
Raskin takes credit for introducing Jobs and other Apple employees to the PARC concepts, but it appears this is not really the case. Raskin also claims to have had continued direct input into the eventual Mac design, including the decision to use a one-button mouse as part of the Apple interface, a departure from the Xerox PARC standard of a three-button mouse. Larry Tesler, among others, debates this claim.
I will attempt an objective critique of the cited passage. Because Jef was such an early employee of Apple, I do believe he was one of the first people there to talk about PARC-developed concepts with his colleagues. In the summer of 1980, he helped me argue for reducing the number of buttons on the Lisa to one. In the summer of 2004, he told me in an email that he had concluded in the 1970's that a one-button mouse would reduce user errors. He said he did not know at the time that other people had reached that same conclusion a few years earlier. I think this was because the people at PARC who Jef met in the '70s only showed him software that relied on all three buttons on an early Xerox mouse. Although he helped the Lisa team to improve the Lisa mouse, Jef's Macintosh design was keyboard-centric. -- Larry Tesler 06:33, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
As I recall, Jef told me that Jobs was not fond of him at the time, so he had to get other people to suggest that Jobs and others visit PARC. In the course of that, the visitors were primed with not widely known information about the PARC GUI work; the people they met with were very impressed with the quality of the Apple visitors' questions. Because of the looseness of the claims and counter claims for credit re introducing Jobs to PARC, I believe that both are quite true. --Dick Karpinski 19 Dec 2005 (If verifiability rules require documentation then this paragraph may have to be removed.)
For months now I've noticed the main source of articles written by Raskin, the web site jef.raskincenter.org, has been down, and is either referred to in this article's references, or by other sites listed in references, such as usabilityviews.com. I've tried making contact with Aza to establish whether the content may be found elsewhere, so that the references could be updated, or alternatively whether the original site will be restored, but haven't been able to reach him. Anyone with suggestions on how to locate this valuable material, so that also the broken links in this article's references might be updated? CharlBarnard ( talk) 06:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
The caption of the picture of Jef appears to be incorrect. At least, it appears that the model he is holding is that of the Swyft computer developed at IAI, rather than the Cat. The Cat got rid of the carrying handle feature in front of the keyboard. Now it is possible that this model represents some sort of proposed prototype for the Cat, just not the final design. In either case, the caption seems misleading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrsharp ( talk • contribs) 02:30, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
It's an early model of the Swyft, made by Ralph Voorhees, prototype maker at IAI and fellow model airplane builder with Jef. It was non-functional but quite close in appearance to the final design, though smaller. The working Swyft was produced in a couple of hundred copies (if I remember correctly) by Sam Woo of South Korea. 24.154.34.36 ( talk) 04:12, 8 September 2011 (UTC)R. Jeffrey Krause
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 21:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
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Some of Jef's friends originally expanded this article during the time that Jef was dying as well as after. (I was not part of that effort.) Several places, they were reaching, exaggerating. Later, individuals took them to task for this, and rightfully so. Unfortunately, the article has now ended up a strange stew of claims and counterclaims. The whole comes off as mean-spirited, somewhat literally, as the alterations took place after Jef was no longer here to counter them.
I'm in no way suggesting that the article does not now more closely reflect Jef's actual contributions. I am suggesting that someone ought to rewrite it so that the original claims——none false per my knowledge, just exaggerated——are carved back to their proper extent with the charges of Jef falsely claiming this and Jef falsely claiming that either removed or sectioned off into a single section documenting where Jef himself, in other publications, exaggerated. Jef is not responsible for his friends updating his Wikipedia page, so any exaggeration that exists on the page itself are not on him.
(Jef was my mentor and friend starting at Apple in 1978. I witnessed many of the events and evolutions involved.)
Bruce Tognazzini 17:37, 2 May 2022 (UTC)toghome — Preceding unsigned comment added by Toghome ( talk • contribs)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Jef Raskin article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Here is an ideal example of how to turn lemons into lemonade. The original contents of this page was the following graffito:
So I looked up Jef Raskin on Google and took a couple of minutes to throw together a stub. -- Ed Poor
"His first computer program, a music program, was part of his master's thesis."
How likely is it that this was really his "first" program? Maybe something like "first large-scale program" or "first significant program"?
__________
Will be adding. He was the 31st employee of Apple and coined the name Macintosh and Information Appliance Jondel
Despite the mention of his son's authorship of the photo included, there is no mention of family and children in the text. Ought this be rectified? ~ Dpr 06:49, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Should we move that tribute to the talk page? mu5ti/ ✏ 22:37, Mar 6, 2005 (UTC)
The article says (as of 2005 Mar 14):
Raskin takes credit for introducing Jobs and other Apple employees to the PARC concepts, but it appears this is not really the case. Raskin also claims to have had continued direct input into the eventual Mac design, including the decision to use a one-button mouse as part of the Apple interface, a departure from the Xerox PARC standard of a three-button mouse. Larry Tesler, among others, debates this claim.
I will attempt an objective critique of the cited passage. Because Jef was such an early employee of Apple, I do believe he was one of the first people there to talk about PARC-developed concepts with his colleagues. In the summer of 1980, he helped me argue for reducing the number of buttons on the Lisa to one. In the summer of 2004, he told me in an email that he had concluded in the 1970's that a one-button mouse would reduce user errors. He said he did not know at the time that other people had reached that same conclusion a few years earlier. I think this was because the people at PARC who Jef met in the '70s only showed him software that relied on all three buttons on an early Xerox mouse. Although he helped the Lisa team to improve the Lisa mouse, Jef's Macintosh design was keyboard-centric. -- Larry Tesler 06:33, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
As I recall, Jef told me that Jobs was not fond of him at the time, so he had to get other people to suggest that Jobs and others visit PARC. In the course of that, the visitors were primed with not widely known information about the PARC GUI work; the people they met with were very impressed with the quality of the Apple visitors' questions. Because of the looseness of the claims and counter claims for credit re introducing Jobs to PARC, I believe that both are quite true. --Dick Karpinski 19 Dec 2005 (If verifiability rules require documentation then this paragraph may have to be removed.)
For months now I've noticed the main source of articles written by Raskin, the web site jef.raskincenter.org, has been down, and is either referred to in this article's references, or by other sites listed in references, such as usabilityviews.com. I've tried making contact with Aza to establish whether the content may be found elsewhere, so that the references could be updated, or alternatively whether the original site will be restored, but haven't been able to reach him. Anyone with suggestions on how to locate this valuable material, so that also the broken links in this article's references might be updated? CharlBarnard ( talk) 06:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
The caption of the picture of Jef appears to be incorrect. At least, it appears that the model he is holding is that of the Swyft computer developed at IAI, rather than the Cat. The Cat got rid of the carrying handle feature in front of the keyboard. Now it is possible that this model represents some sort of proposed prototype for the Cat, just not the final design. In either case, the caption seems misleading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrsharp ( talk • contribs) 02:30, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
It's an early model of the Swyft, made by Ralph Voorhees, prototype maker at IAI and fellow model airplane builder with Jef. It was non-functional but quite close in appearance to the final design, though smaller. The working Swyft was produced in a couple of hundred copies (if I remember correctly) by Sam Woo of South Korea. 24.154.34.36 ( talk) 04:12, 8 September 2011 (UTC)R. Jeffrey Krause
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
Jef Raskin. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 21:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Jef Raskin. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:41, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
Some of Jef's friends originally expanded this article during the time that Jef was dying as well as after. (I was not part of that effort.) Several places, they were reaching, exaggerating. Later, individuals took them to task for this, and rightfully so. Unfortunately, the article has now ended up a strange stew of claims and counterclaims. The whole comes off as mean-spirited, somewhat literally, as the alterations took place after Jef was no longer here to counter them.
I'm in no way suggesting that the article does not now more closely reflect Jef's actual contributions. I am suggesting that someone ought to rewrite it so that the original claims——none false per my knowledge, just exaggerated——are carved back to their proper extent with the charges of Jef falsely claiming this and Jef falsely claiming that either removed or sectioned off into a single section documenting where Jef himself, in other publications, exaggerated. Jef is not responsible for his friends updating his Wikipedia page, so any exaggeration that exists on the page itself are not on him.
(Jef was my mentor and friend starting at Apple in 1978. I witnessed many of the events and evolutions involved.)
Bruce Tognazzini 17:37, 2 May 2022 (UTC)toghome — Preceding unsigned comment added by Toghome ( talk • contribs)