College players are draft-eligible after their junior year. Gyorko was drafted after his junior year and signed, forgoing his senior year. This is now made more clear with a sentence describing him as a potential first round pick after his junior year. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
14:54, 9 December 2013 (UTC)reply
Many high school and college shortstops are seen as not able to handle the position professionally, so they're shifted to a less demanding position. (Jason Giambi played shortstop in high school.) Gyorko is no exception; he was a commodity because he could hit. I should add in that the Padres were skeptical that he could be their second baseman as recently as 2013 spring training. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
15:16, 9 December 2013 (UTC)reply
[1] I don't know how relevant this is to the article, since it doesn't relate to Gyorko directly.
That neither mentions Gyorko nor says that high school and college shortstops often don't play the position as pros. What we need is a pro scouting report. Do you have access to any scouting reports about him around the time he was being drafted by the pros?--
TonyTheTiger (
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00:39, 13 December 2013 (UTC)reply
Yeah, you're right. On a quick first read I thought it talked more about how the position is so demanding that amateurs are moved off of it when they turn pro. On a closer read I see it just says the position is demanding. I am a Baseball Prospectus subscriber. (Why did I not think to look there sooner?) Here's a comment that can be sourced to their 2011 annual: "The Padres shifted him to third base, where he has the arm to stick but no other strong defensive skills; he played shortstop in college only because the rules stipulated that someone had to and he happened to be West Virginia's most distinguished athlete." Let me see what else I can find before I add that. Also, I reread
this source (already cited) that says he played second in youth baseball before playing short in high school. Per
this source, Gyorko split time between 3B and DH in 2011 due to being a teammate of another 3B prospect. Those are now added. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
14:47, 13 December 2013 (UTC)reply
What you have included is that he played third but only sometimes. You have not explained that because of a weak arm, he was moved from short to third. I am satisfied with that quote as a source for that issue. However, you are free to look for another. I imagine there are scouting reports out there that say he did not have a strong enough arm to be a professional shortstop. It was likely either going to be the feet, the glove or the arm. We just need to tell the reader it was the arm.--
TonyTheTiger (
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15:34, 13 December 2013 (UTC)reply
Right, I haven't explained the reason yet. I think it's also the footwork, in addition to the arm, that prevented him from being a pro SS. I'll try to get to this by COB today. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
15:59, 13 December 2013 (UTC)reply
I added an MLB.com video that talks about a lack of range. Other sources I've seen seem to indicate his throwing arm was viewed as adequate for any IF position. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
19:11, 13 December 2013 (UTC)reply
I think the proper summary of the sources would be that Source x said that he had an inadequate arm. However, most other sources, including sources Y & Z, suggest that his arm is sufficient to play any position, but his range is not good enough to be a shortstop at the professional level. That would cover us and allow the reader to draw their own conclusions and guide them to dig further as they wish.--
TonyTheTiger (
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20:37, 13 December 2013 (UTC)reply
His throwing arm was not an issue. The sources say his arm would be sufficient at 3B, but don't say it wasn't at SS. The issue at SS was his lack of range and footspeed. The latter I've added to the description. I'm adding now how his arm was seen as okay. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
21:37, 13 December 2013 (UTC)reply
College players are draft-eligible after their junior year. Gyorko was drafted after his junior year and signed, forgoing his senior year. This is now made more clear with a sentence describing him as a potential first round pick after his junior year. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
14:54, 9 December 2013 (UTC)reply
Many high school and college shortstops are seen as not able to handle the position professionally, so they're shifted to a less demanding position. (Jason Giambi played shortstop in high school.) Gyorko is no exception; he was a commodity because he could hit. I should add in that the Padres were skeptical that he could be their second baseman as recently as 2013 spring training. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
15:16, 9 December 2013 (UTC)reply
[1] I don't know how relevant this is to the article, since it doesn't relate to Gyorko directly.
That neither mentions Gyorko nor says that high school and college shortstops often don't play the position as pros. What we need is a pro scouting report. Do you have access to any scouting reports about him around the time he was being drafted by the pros?--
TonyTheTiger (
T /
C /
WP:FOUR /
WP:CHICAGO /
WP:WAWARD)
00:39, 13 December 2013 (UTC)reply
Yeah, you're right. On a quick first read I thought it talked more about how the position is so demanding that amateurs are moved off of it when they turn pro. On a closer read I see it just says the position is demanding. I am a Baseball Prospectus subscriber. (Why did I not think to look there sooner?) Here's a comment that can be sourced to their 2011 annual: "The Padres shifted him to third base, where he has the arm to stick but no other strong defensive skills; he played shortstop in college only because the rules stipulated that someone had to and he happened to be West Virginia's most distinguished athlete." Let me see what else I can find before I add that. Also, I reread
this source (already cited) that says he played second in youth baseball before playing short in high school. Per
this source, Gyorko split time between 3B and DH in 2011 due to being a teammate of another 3B prospect. Those are now added. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
14:47, 13 December 2013 (UTC)reply
What you have included is that he played third but only sometimes. You have not explained that because of a weak arm, he was moved from short to third. I am satisfied with that quote as a source for that issue. However, you are free to look for another. I imagine there are scouting reports out there that say he did not have a strong enough arm to be a professional shortstop. It was likely either going to be the feet, the glove or the arm. We just need to tell the reader it was the arm.--
TonyTheTiger (
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C /
WP:FOUR /
WP:CHICAGO /
WP:WAWARD)
15:34, 13 December 2013 (UTC)reply
Right, I haven't explained the reason yet. I think it's also the footwork, in addition to the arm, that prevented him from being a pro SS. I'll try to get to this by COB today. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
15:59, 13 December 2013 (UTC)reply
I added an MLB.com video that talks about a lack of range. Other sources I've seen seem to indicate his throwing arm was viewed as adequate for any IF position. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
19:11, 13 December 2013 (UTC)reply
I think the proper summary of the sources would be that Source x said that he had an inadequate arm. However, most other sources, including sources Y & Z, suggest that his arm is sufficient to play any position, but his range is not good enough to be a shortstop at the professional level. That would cover us and allow the reader to draw their own conclusions and guide them to dig further as they wish.--
TonyTheTiger (
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C /
WP:FOUR /
WP:CHICAGO /
WP:WAWARD)
20:37, 13 December 2013 (UTC)reply
His throwing arm was not an issue. The sources say his arm would be sufficient at 3B, but don't say it wasn't at SS. The issue at SS was his lack of range and footspeed. The latter I've added to the description. I'm adding now how his arm was seen as okay. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
21:37, 13 December 2013 (UTC)reply