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It's a well sourced assertion that Pauly used paper cases. His metallic head was to provide
obturation, not the (paper) case.
What sourcing is there that Pauly used a metal case, meaning a container to retain pressure within it by sealing against the chamber walls? A cartridge head with obturation at the head, then without a pressure differential across the walls of the rest of it, isn't a metallic cartridge casing.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 23:05, 25 October 2015 (UTC)reply
In the new reference I provided, the Smithsonian one, on page 4 it states that the cases of Pauly's cartridges were made of brass. There is also a collection of images at the end of the file, including an image of Pauly's cartridge. Tell me, does that look like a paper cartridge to you? Also, in the Jeff Kinard reference, it states on page 107 that Pauly 'replaced the paper body of the cartridge with a brass tube'. Finally, in the Roger Pauly reference it states on page 94 that 'Pauly designed several types of ammunition utilizing both full-brass casings and partial half-casings fitted to the rear of a larger paper cartridge'. It also describes the cartridge as 'metallic' on the same page. That seems like enough evidence to me to justify calling Pauly's cartridge a metallic one, or a cartridge that used a metallic casing. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
SQMeaner (
talk •
contribs) 00:24, 26 October 2015 (UTC)reply
"Like Pauly's, the case did not provide a seal by expanding, only a mechanical one at the base."
Some of Pauly's handgun cartridges, rather than the long arm cartridges where the paper cartridge is clearly visible, have a brass base that are a proportionately longer portion of the round's overall length. But the point is that it's not sealing by the cartridge or by expansion, but by the obturation of the base. OK, so this is a "brass cartridge" because it's a cartridge and it's made of brass. But it's not the brass cartridge, or even an early example of the brass cartridge, because it doesn't yet demonstrate the significant development of it: sealing at the neck of the case by expansion and by the support of a thin-walled brass cartridge with a closely-fitting chamber. The wording of any reference needs to avoid implying that Pauly had invented such a cartridge.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 02:12, 26 October 2015 (UTC)reply
So basically, Pauly did use a brass case but it didn't provide obturation. That seems like a neat summary to me and you can feel free to add that to this page.
SQMeaner (
talk)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Jean Samuel Pauly article. This is
not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
An editor has requested that an image or photograph be
added to this article.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Firearms, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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discussion and see a list of
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project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
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It's a well sourced assertion that Pauly used paper cases. His metallic head was to provide
obturation, not the (paper) case.
What sourcing is there that Pauly used a metal case, meaning a container to retain pressure within it by sealing against the chamber walls? A cartridge head with obturation at the head, then without a pressure differential across the walls of the rest of it, isn't a metallic cartridge casing.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 23:05, 25 October 2015 (UTC)reply
In the new reference I provided, the Smithsonian one, on page 4 it states that the cases of Pauly's cartridges were made of brass. There is also a collection of images at the end of the file, including an image of Pauly's cartridge. Tell me, does that look like a paper cartridge to you? Also, in the Jeff Kinard reference, it states on page 107 that Pauly 'replaced the paper body of the cartridge with a brass tube'. Finally, in the Roger Pauly reference it states on page 94 that 'Pauly designed several types of ammunition utilizing both full-brass casings and partial half-casings fitted to the rear of a larger paper cartridge'. It also describes the cartridge as 'metallic' on the same page. That seems like enough evidence to me to justify calling Pauly's cartridge a metallic one, or a cartridge that used a metallic casing. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
SQMeaner (
talk •
contribs) 00:24, 26 October 2015 (UTC)reply
"Like Pauly's, the case did not provide a seal by expanding, only a mechanical one at the base."
Some of Pauly's handgun cartridges, rather than the long arm cartridges where the paper cartridge is clearly visible, have a brass base that are a proportionately longer portion of the round's overall length. But the point is that it's not sealing by the cartridge or by expansion, but by the obturation of the base. OK, so this is a "brass cartridge" because it's a cartridge and it's made of brass. But it's not the brass cartridge, or even an early example of the brass cartridge, because it doesn't yet demonstrate the significant development of it: sealing at the neck of the case by expansion and by the support of a thin-walled brass cartridge with a closely-fitting chamber. The wording of any reference needs to avoid implying that Pauly had invented such a cartridge.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 02:12, 26 October 2015 (UTC)reply
So basically, Pauly did use a brass case but it didn't provide obturation. That seems like a neat summary to me and you can feel free to add that to this page.
SQMeaner (
talk)