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Poorly did, does not sound encyclopaedic whatsoever. Historically its inaccurate, the idea that British and American intelligence proxy-assissinated Moulin is absurd. Furthermore Charles de Gaulle was not pro-American, he is one of the defining figures of European anti-Americanism! This needs to be sorted. -- JDnCoke 11:14, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Edcolins, you changed "hero of the..." to "member of the..." why? did you feel it wasn't NPOV? If that's the case, i will have to disagree with you; Jean Moulin was, in many ways, more than "just" a member of the resistance.. Anyway thanks everyone for your edits, even though it is kind of embarrassing to see all the orthographic mistakes I made ^^;;; F i P 00:55, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I took as history the account in a docu-style film probably from the 1990s depicting him as being rescued, between his prison & an interrogation, via an attack on the vehicle & soldiers moving him there. (And of course later dying after recapture.) Bunk? (Hmm, the rescue united him with his lover, who went on the raid.... Hmmm, maybe i'm gullible.) -- Jerzy (t) 17:37, 2004 Sep 10 (UTC)
Jerzy: Wow. I've actually never heard that story before! Interesting thought, though.
I'm not that familiar with wikipedia's guidelines on the subject, so i'll just ask:
In the section "Resistance", Jean Moulin is discribed as the
préfet of Eure-et-loir, but a few lines bellow, we find a link for
prefects. Which is more correct : préfet and préfets or Prefect and Prefects ?
F
i
P 08:36, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
A few days after I had rewritten this article, someone had added the "crypto communist" part. I guess i didn't want to feel stupid by asking "what the heck is a crypto-communist ? öO" :D
Anyway Ruy Lopez just removed it, i guess that's that.
F
i
P 17:09, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
"because of his great courage and his horrific death." His death is not described in any terms in this article that would support it being "horrific." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.207.242.4 ( talk • contribs)
"Yandman" Removed the following from the external links sections:
*[http://www.lerire.com LeRire.com] - Features OCR'd ''Le Rire'' issues
This link may or may not belong here, I'm not sure, but I propose adding "
Le Rire" to the "See Also" section.
FiP
Как вы думаете? 01:31, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
The 1970's called. They'd like their baseless accusation back.
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 03:53, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
The fact that he (his ashes) was buried in Père Lachaise and then transferred to the Pantheon actually is more legend than fact. As well said by the French version of this article, his corpse was never found/identified, so it's just symbolic. His grave is empty, a cenotaph (see french version of the article) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.74.139.98 ( talk) 09:42, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
This section needs additional citations for
verification. (March 2011) |
at the beginning of each section as it should be I am bringing it here. All of these sections make a number of claims as factual and seeing as how we are dealing with people (alive and dead) exact dates and crimes and accusations of crimes this needs to cleared up. tyvm Pudge MclameO ( talk) 03:08, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
I sincerely doubt he would have lived as long as he did, if that were true. Perhaps a rephrase is in order? Guinness2702 ( talk) 11:35, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Far too floral and emotional. Main source is Alan Clinton 1999 Jean Moulin, 1899-1943: The French Resistance and the Republic which does not rely on French sources — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.202.211.125 ( talk) 05:01, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
With all due respect, Clinton is a very respected historian of France and his book is based upon French sources if you taken the time to read his footnotes. More importantly, what you doing here is very close to negationsism. The massacre of the Senegalese soldiers was referenced to a RS, so your argument that it is unreliable about it you cannot find an internet source confirming it is a most dubious edit. Furthermore, you claim that French sources state that such massacre took place. I'm going try to be polite here; you need to reference such sources. Merely saying that "French sources" say something is an assertion that does not justify deleting material referenced to a RS. What are these "French sources" that you talking about? It is a matter of fact that the German Army did massacre Senegalese serving in the French Army in 1940. -- A.S. Brown ( talk) 00:50, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
Was Moulin dismissed/removed from office of a préfet on November 2, 1940 or 16 November 1940?
-- Gui le Roi ( talk) 13:06, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
I removed a dubious statement about protests in 2013 being related to Jean Moulin's hypothetical homosexuality :
“In 2013, a remembrance ceremony in France attended by the prime minister was disturbed by anti-gay protestors [...]”
There's no mention of this in the linked article (which actually links to
this more complete article). This protest was against the François Hollande government, and specifically against the then recently voted law on “same-sex marriage”, it had no relation whatsoever with the alledged homosexuality of Jean Moulin (which I had never seen mentioned until I read this article on english Wikipedia, go figure).
Besides, the whole “Homosexuality” section is awkward by its relative length, its gossip treatment, and even more so by its placement, as if it was the missing link between “The Resistance” and “Who betrayed Jean Moulin”...--
Abolibibelot (
talk) 03:30, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
The fedora-and-scarf photo by Marcel Bernard (see the links in the refs below) is still under copyright, but I think there is a good case to put it while passing WP:NFCC. I propose to put it in into the "legacy" section accompanied with the following text:
The photograph with a fedora and scarf has become a popular representation of Jean Moulin and more generally the Resistance movement; in it, Jean Moulin seems to hide from onlookers to protect his clandestine life. [1] However, the photograph itself was taken in Montpellier in February 1940 during a family visit [2], before his first arrest in June 1940 and subsequent decision to join the Resistance.
Cette photographie a fortement participé à fixer l'image du résistant entré dans la clandestinité, et qui cherche à se cacher des regards.
Venu passer quelques jours chez sa mère et sa sœur à Montpellier mi-février 1940, Jean Moulin est pris en photo par son ami d'enfance Marcel Bernard, aux Arceaux, près de la Promenade du Peyrou.
That would IMO satisfy NFCC #1 (no free equivalent because no image can replace that exact image) and #8 (contextual significance), and other criteria are easy to fulfill.
Any objections before I do the paperwork to upload the image? Tigraan Click here for my talk page ("private" contact) 12:44, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
Jean Moulin (French: [ʒɑ̃ mu.lɛ̃]; 20 June 1899 – 8 July 1943) was a French civil servant and resistant who succeeded in unifying the main networks of the French Resistance, a unique act in Europe. He served as the first President of the National Council of the Resistance during World War II from 27 May 1943 until his death less than two months later.<
I dont know where you heard his second name? I dont know why you make effort to delete the specificity of his action. You, english, want to be the only ones hero of WWII. Proximo ( talk) 21:27, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Poorly did, does not sound encyclopaedic whatsoever. Historically its inaccurate, the idea that British and American intelligence proxy-assissinated Moulin is absurd. Furthermore Charles de Gaulle was not pro-American, he is one of the defining figures of European anti-Americanism! This needs to be sorted. -- JDnCoke 11:14, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Edcolins, you changed "hero of the..." to "member of the..." why? did you feel it wasn't NPOV? If that's the case, i will have to disagree with you; Jean Moulin was, in many ways, more than "just" a member of the resistance.. Anyway thanks everyone for your edits, even though it is kind of embarrassing to see all the orthographic mistakes I made ^^;;; F i P 00:55, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I took as history the account in a docu-style film probably from the 1990s depicting him as being rescued, between his prison & an interrogation, via an attack on the vehicle & soldiers moving him there. (And of course later dying after recapture.) Bunk? (Hmm, the rescue united him with his lover, who went on the raid.... Hmmm, maybe i'm gullible.) -- Jerzy (t) 17:37, 2004 Sep 10 (UTC)
Jerzy: Wow. I've actually never heard that story before! Interesting thought, though.
I'm not that familiar with wikipedia's guidelines on the subject, so i'll just ask:
In the section "Resistance", Jean Moulin is discribed as the
préfet of Eure-et-loir, but a few lines bellow, we find a link for
prefects. Which is more correct : préfet and préfets or Prefect and Prefects ?
F
i
P 08:36, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
A few days after I had rewritten this article, someone had added the "crypto communist" part. I guess i didn't want to feel stupid by asking "what the heck is a crypto-communist ? öO" :D
Anyway Ruy Lopez just removed it, i guess that's that.
F
i
P 17:09, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
"because of his great courage and his horrific death." His death is not described in any terms in this article that would support it being "horrific." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.207.242.4 ( talk • contribs)
"Yandman" Removed the following from the external links sections:
*[http://www.lerire.com LeRire.com] - Features OCR'd ''Le Rire'' issues
This link may or may not belong here, I'm not sure, but I propose adding "
Le Rire" to the "See Also" section.
FiP
Как вы думаете? 01:31, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
The 1970's called. They'd like their baseless accusation back.
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 03:53, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
The fact that he (his ashes) was buried in Père Lachaise and then transferred to the Pantheon actually is more legend than fact. As well said by the French version of this article, his corpse was never found/identified, so it's just symbolic. His grave is empty, a cenotaph (see french version of the article) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.74.139.98 ( talk) 09:42, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
This section needs additional citations for
verification. (March 2011) |
at the beginning of each section as it should be I am bringing it here. All of these sections make a number of claims as factual and seeing as how we are dealing with people (alive and dead) exact dates and crimes and accusations of crimes this needs to cleared up. tyvm Pudge MclameO ( talk) 03:08, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
I sincerely doubt he would have lived as long as he did, if that were true. Perhaps a rephrase is in order? Guinness2702 ( talk) 11:35, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Far too floral and emotional. Main source is Alan Clinton 1999 Jean Moulin, 1899-1943: The French Resistance and the Republic which does not rely on French sources — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.202.211.125 ( talk) 05:01, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
With all due respect, Clinton is a very respected historian of France and his book is based upon French sources if you taken the time to read his footnotes. More importantly, what you doing here is very close to negationsism. The massacre of the Senegalese soldiers was referenced to a RS, so your argument that it is unreliable about it you cannot find an internet source confirming it is a most dubious edit. Furthermore, you claim that French sources state that such massacre took place. I'm going try to be polite here; you need to reference such sources. Merely saying that "French sources" say something is an assertion that does not justify deleting material referenced to a RS. What are these "French sources" that you talking about? It is a matter of fact that the German Army did massacre Senegalese serving in the French Army in 1940. -- A.S. Brown ( talk) 00:50, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
Was Moulin dismissed/removed from office of a préfet on November 2, 1940 or 16 November 1940?
-- Gui le Roi ( talk) 13:06, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
I removed a dubious statement about protests in 2013 being related to Jean Moulin's hypothetical homosexuality :
“In 2013, a remembrance ceremony in France attended by the prime minister was disturbed by anti-gay protestors [...]”
There's no mention of this in the linked article (which actually links to
this more complete article). This protest was against the François Hollande government, and specifically against the then recently voted law on “same-sex marriage”, it had no relation whatsoever with the alledged homosexuality of Jean Moulin (which I had never seen mentioned until I read this article on english Wikipedia, go figure).
Besides, the whole “Homosexuality” section is awkward by its relative length, its gossip treatment, and even more so by its placement, as if it was the missing link between “The Resistance” and “Who betrayed Jean Moulin”...--
Abolibibelot (
talk) 03:30, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
The fedora-and-scarf photo by Marcel Bernard (see the links in the refs below) is still under copyright, but I think there is a good case to put it while passing WP:NFCC. I propose to put it in into the "legacy" section accompanied with the following text:
The photograph with a fedora and scarf has become a popular representation of Jean Moulin and more generally the Resistance movement; in it, Jean Moulin seems to hide from onlookers to protect his clandestine life. [1] However, the photograph itself was taken in Montpellier in February 1940 during a family visit [2], before his first arrest in June 1940 and subsequent decision to join the Resistance.
Cette photographie a fortement participé à fixer l'image du résistant entré dans la clandestinité, et qui cherche à se cacher des regards.
Venu passer quelques jours chez sa mère et sa sœur à Montpellier mi-février 1940, Jean Moulin est pris en photo par son ami d'enfance Marcel Bernard, aux Arceaux, près de la Promenade du Peyrou.
That would IMO satisfy NFCC #1 (no free equivalent because no image can replace that exact image) and #8 (contextual significance), and other criteria are easy to fulfill.
Any objections before I do the paperwork to upload the image? Tigraan Click here for my talk page ("private" contact) 12:44, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
Jean Moulin (French: [ʒɑ̃ mu.lɛ̃]; 20 June 1899 – 8 July 1943) was a French civil servant and resistant who succeeded in unifying the main networks of the French Resistance, a unique act in Europe. He served as the first President of the National Council of the Resistance during World War II from 27 May 1943 until his death less than two months later.<
I dont know where you heard his second name? I dont know why you make effort to delete the specificity of his action. You, english, want to be the only ones hero of WWII. Proximo ( talk) 21:27, 14 December 2023 (UTC)