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This page is a little naive in it's elevation of jazz harmony over "traditional" harmony. As can be seen in other Wikipedia pages, mainstream European composers had incorporated many of the harmonic innovations a century before Coltrane, and the principles of even harmolodics is firmly rooted in Asian and middle-eastern music -- the jazz composers did bring some innovation, I don't discount that completely, but they were primarily synthesists. Among that first generation of World-Aware post-WWII composers, they were people who now knew first hand of the musics of Europe, Asia and (later) Africa, and thanks to field recordings (eg Lomax) and radio/records distribution, they were also keenly aware of the music that had preceded them. Coltrane was a big fan of Slonimsky and many jazz composers cite Bartok and Scriabin and others as sources for the 'innovations' they adapted to the jazz idiom. Indeed, Wagner's "Tristan chord" is still bleeding edge.
This page is attempting to concisely describe jazz harmony by drawing comparisons to classical harmony, which serves as the foundation for its theory and symbology. You must note however, that while jazz harmony finds much of its roots in classical harmony, that it departs from standard or traditional practices in many ways. The voice leading, counterpoint, and chord construction are vastly different in many cases. It is not trying to present jazz as in any way superior to classical harmony, I think that the article is so far from completion in describing this unique departure from the traditional approach to music analysis that I think it can leave this impression. In sum, I believe this article must be expanded to include an explanation of counterpoint, voice leading, and common chord construction in jazz. I also think we must fill in the missing articles highlighted in red.
I believe that not only are certain harmonic ideas and formulas commonly and primarily in jazz, they are also described symbolically, and analyzed in a different way. The Maj7#11 chord is a perfect example of a description that would never be used in traditional harmony. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.18.121 ( talk) 06:32, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
I have been reading the article over a few times as a complete beginner to music theory and it seems that there are a few points that need further explanation or links to the appropriate pages. Sections that would benefit from additional explanation as follows (bold indicating the term I think needs explaining):
I'm not sure that I'm in a good position to do either, because of my limited knowledge. Jimjamjak ( talk) 14:22, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Do this article and Jazz chords need to be separate? 1Z ( talk) 14:28, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
A long time ago I started an article on jazz theory which is a bit more expansive than this one: User:Rictus/Jazz theory. Would people like to see some of that content merged here? Rictus ( talk) 01:32, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
Tensions available for each chord must be spelled out as this is a central issue in jazz harmony. Especially tensions in chords of the melodic minor scale and the harmonic minor, as they are a frequent subject of confusion. In melodic minor, could the Im maj7 use the 9th, 11th, or/and 13th? What are the "not allowed notes" for each grade, and why?
-- Tommy The Wise ( talk) 14:50, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Jazz harmony article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article has not yet been rated on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
This page is a little naive in it's elevation of jazz harmony over "traditional" harmony. As can be seen in other Wikipedia pages, mainstream European composers had incorporated many of the harmonic innovations a century before Coltrane, and the principles of even harmolodics is firmly rooted in Asian and middle-eastern music -- the jazz composers did bring some innovation, I don't discount that completely, but they were primarily synthesists. Among that first generation of World-Aware post-WWII composers, they were people who now knew first hand of the musics of Europe, Asia and (later) Africa, and thanks to field recordings (eg Lomax) and radio/records distribution, they were also keenly aware of the music that had preceded them. Coltrane was a big fan of Slonimsky and many jazz composers cite Bartok and Scriabin and others as sources for the 'innovations' they adapted to the jazz idiom. Indeed, Wagner's "Tristan chord" is still bleeding edge.
This page is attempting to concisely describe jazz harmony by drawing comparisons to classical harmony, which serves as the foundation for its theory and symbology. You must note however, that while jazz harmony finds much of its roots in classical harmony, that it departs from standard or traditional practices in many ways. The voice leading, counterpoint, and chord construction are vastly different in many cases. It is not trying to present jazz as in any way superior to classical harmony, I think that the article is so far from completion in describing this unique departure from the traditional approach to music analysis that I think it can leave this impression. In sum, I believe this article must be expanded to include an explanation of counterpoint, voice leading, and common chord construction in jazz. I also think we must fill in the missing articles highlighted in red.
I believe that not only are certain harmonic ideas and formulas commonly and primarily in jazz, they are also described symbolically, and analyzed in a different way. The Maj7#11 chord is a perfect example of a description that would never be used in traditional harmony. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.18.121 ( talk) 06:32, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
I have been reading the article over a few times as a complete beginner to music theory and it seems that there are a few points that need further explanation or links to the appropriate pages. Sections that would benefit from additional explanation as follows (bold indicating the term I think needs explaining):
I'm not sure that I'm in a good position to do either, because of my limited knowledge. Jimjamjak ( talk) 14:22, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Do this article and Jazz chords need to be separate? 1Z ( talk) 14:28, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
A long time ago I started an article on jazz theory which is a bit more expansive than this one: User:Rictus/Jazz theory. Would people like to see some of that content merged here? Rictus ( talk) 01:32, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
Tensions available for each chord must be spelled out as this is a central issue in jazz harmony. Especially tensions in chords of the melodic minor scale and the harmonic minor, as they are a frequent subject of confusion. In melodic minor, could the Im maj7 use the 9th, 11th, or/and 13th? What are the "not allowed notes" for each grade, and why?
-- Tommy The Wise ( talk) 14:50, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Jazz harmony. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:31, 20 April 2017 (UTC)