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Is it really that necessary to put what school she attends? I find it extremely frightening, given that she is still a minor, and her safety is a priority. Furthermore, why is it so important that people know where she goes to school? I think we should remove the line about where she attends school. Consider it. I won't remove it yet. Lets discuss it a bit first. Rbkl ( talk) 07:14, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Here is a question for discussion. I have read the Monegasque Constitution, and it does say that the throne is only inhereited throught the direct, legitimate line. However, what it neglects to state is what title the illegitimate children of a Sovereign Prince of Monaco shall have. For instance, a person who is not in the line of succession can still hold the title of Prince or Princess. In the cases of Jazmin and Alexandre, would it not be dynastic for them to use the appropriate titles of Prince and Princess of Monaco, given their fathers' position? Any response is welcomed. Rbkl ( talk) 09:37, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
I removed the phrase that the 2002 update of the constitution was the first change in 600 years. The first constitution of Monaco was only enacted in 1911. That was suspended in 1959 to be replaced in 1962 by the constitution that was amended in 2002.
Queen Brandissima - brandy.kelley@gmail.com
Wow. very interesting.....I guess you cannot blame Ms. Rotolo....it was an opportunity of a life time.
If she is an American and not subject to Monegasque law, shouldn't her last name still read "Grimaldi"?
It is my understanding that Jazmin Grace will use surname Grimaldi until she completes school. Then, her surname of use will be her mother's maiden name of Rotolo. Her half-brother, Alexandre, uses the surname of Coste, one adopted by his mother.
Does she still go to JSerra High? Meson man 23:52, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Please note birth certificate: Born GRIMALDI, Passport states Grimaldi. Neither Father, nor attorney for family, ever made any statement about either child using Grimaldi name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.149.250.188 ( talk) 18:08, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
If she were to move to Monaco and obtain citizenship (which is possible, she would have to obtain it the way you and I would-living there at least 10 years or as long as whomever is the monarch at the time she moves deems she is worthy of exemption...and given her lineage....yeah, or marry a Monegasque man and remain married for at least 5 years), she would have to change her last name to something else. However, because she is an American, she doesn't have to change anything legally as that statue in the Constitution does not hold in American laws. As for her half-brother, he also presently carries the surname Grimaldi since moving to London in 2012 or 2013 with his mother. In contrary to the above, Prince Albert HAS made statements, on numerous occasions, referring to Jazmin as a Grimaldi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.186.171.80 ( talk) 01:47, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
The comment that the child was born out of wedlock has been removed pending proper sourcing. There has been an OTRS complaint filed (Ticket#2007122110002539). I advised that the material could be re-added once sourcing was included. Please help us do this correctly. Thanks - JodyB talk 17:39, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
I've removed material that was unreferenced or speculative editorialising. Further, please remember that the subject is a minor, so we need to be sensitive here. Our policies on living subjects need to be strictly followed.-- Docg 13:33, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Article 10 of the constitution of Monaco: (translated from the French):
The succession to the throne, opened by death or abdication, takes place direct and legitimate issue of the reigning prince, by order of primogeniture with priority given to males within the same degree of kinship. In the absence of direct legitimate issue, the succession passes to the brothers and sisters of the reigning prince and their direct legitimate descendants, by order of primogeniture with priority given to males within the same degree of kinship. If the heir who would have acceded by virtue of the preceding paragraphs is deceased or has renounced before the succession became open, the succession passes to his own direct legitimate descendants, by order of primogeniture with priority given to males within the same degree of kinship. If the application of the preceding paragraphs does not fill the vacancy of the throne, the succession passes to a collateral appointed by the Crown Council upon same advice of the Regency Council. The powers of the prince are temporarily held by the Regency Council. The throne can only pass to a person holding Monegasque citizenship on the day the succession opens. The procedures of application of this article are set, as needed, by the statutes of the Sovereign Family, promulgated by Sovereign ordinance.
This replaces a section of the prior constitution which permitted illegitimate children of the prince to be adopted into the line of succession (Prince Louis II of Monaco adopted his bastard daughter Charlotte, who abdicated in favor of her son Prince Rainier. Had the current constitution have been in place, this would not have been possible). That the constitution adopted in 2002 removes this possibility is no accident; it was Rainier III's means of keeping his son's illegitimate children out of the succession. Much as the unnamed objector would like us to do so, it's impossible to discuss the succession to the throne of Monaco without discussing illegitimacy and its consequences. The descendants of Prince Rainier III were:
1 Rainier III of Monaco (1923 - 2005) & Grace Patricia Kelly (1929 - 1982) 1a Caroline of Monaco* (1957 - ) & Philippe Junot (1940 - ) 1b Caroline of Monaco* (1957 - ) & Stephano Casiraghi (1960 - 1990) 1 Andréa Casiraghi (1984 - ) 2 Charlotte Casiraghi (1986 - ) 3 Pierre Casiraghi (1987 - ) 1c Caroline of Monaco* (1957 - ) & Ernst August of Hanover (1954 - ) 1 Alexandra of Hanover (1999 - ) 2a Albert II of Monaco* (1958 - ) & Nicole Tossukpé (1971 - ) 1 (Eric) Alexandre (Stéphane) Coste (2003 - ) 2b Albert II of Monaco* (1958 - ) & Tamara Jean Rotolo (1961 - ) 1 Jazmin Grace Grimaldi (1992 - ) 3a Stephanie of Monaco* (1965 - ) & Daniel Ducruet (1964 - ) 1 Louis Robert Paul Ducruet (1992 - ) 2 Pauline Grace Ducruet (1994 - ) 3b Stephanie of Monaco* (1965 - ) & Jean-Raymond Gottleib (1967 - ) 1 Camille Marie Kelly Gottleib (1998 - ) 3c Stephanie of Monaco* (1965 - ) & Franco Knie 3d Stephanie of Monaco* (1965 - ) & Pierre Pinelli 3e Stephanie of Monaco* (1965 - ) & Adan Lopez Peres (~1974 - )
His son, Albert II, succeeded him. Albert might still marry and produce legitimate children; he could also marry the the mother of his illegitimate child Alexandre Coste and thus legitimate him. (He cannot do so with the mother of Jasmine, as Jasmine is not merely illegitimate, but adulterine). If Albert has no legitimate children at his death, the crown would pass to his sisters and their children. WIth Caroline and her children there are no issues of legitimacy. Of Stephanie's children, Louis and Pauline Ducruet were born (illegitimately) before her marriage to Daniel Ducruet, but the subsequent marriage of their parents legitimates them, and so they are in line to the succession. Camille Gottleib, because she is illegitimate, is not in the line of succession. - Nunh-huh 16:05, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
It is not pertinent to the article what High School she attends. Jons63 ( talk) 03:00, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Nowhere does the article state that Jazmin is illegitimate. To understand this (rather basic fact that is so very important for royal families) you must puzzle together several other statements from this and her mother's page.
Please state clearly the child is illegitimate. This is just a statement of fact and should not be construed as making a moral judgement. 85.227.226.235 ( talk) 16:35, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Now, it is mentioned she is an illegitimate child. But the adulterine part is not mentioned. Isn't that the reason she can't ever be part of the line of succession? If yes, then it definitely should on the article. 85.217.42.90 ( talk) 05:59, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
The Hello Magazine reference has been on this page for 2 1/2 years (until CDRL102 decided to remove as not relevant). The recent interview in Harper's Bazaar is also relevant because it is referenced as her "First Interview", and that it was conducted from the Palace in the Principality of Monaco. It establishes (historically) the relationship between father and daughter and extended family (despite repeated labels of illegitimacy, which should only referenced with regard to Heir). For the first time a legitimate publication was granted an interview (obviously approved by the Principality since took place at the Palace) that sets the record straight about the historical time-line and relationship between Prince Albert II and his two older children. Many publications have also recently published photos of her with family members, such as; Princess Stephanie's children, also establishing a historical record of the relationship. The article also states she attended the Christening of her recent Brother (true Heir) and sister. It is relevant because so much gossip has painted a different picture of Prince Albert's parental responsibilities -- and his public image is of historical interest. AbbyLawrence ( talk) 16:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
I notice that your defense begins with "I read"... "and (I) felt" it shouldn't be there... "I don't see..." No one said Wikipedia was a gossip site, and it certainly is not. However, it is often used and referred to as a reference tool (site) and the details published in these two reputable (not gossip) publications answer historical questions often raised regarding the subjects involved. Unsure, why you feel the need to arbitrarily edit the contents of the page simply because you feel it is not worthy. I suggest they remain because they historically and accurately (because they hold first-person quotes from the subjects involved) answer questions often raised about the subjects. You stated your position, which appears to be nothing more than you arbitrarily don't approve and this is not a worthy "for or against" defense of your position to keep or remove these articles. Clearly, certain topics regarding the subjects of these pages, since so often discussed, make it relevant. It is not speculation. It is not gossip. It is the "spoken words" of the subjects involved. therefore; it IS relevant. AbbyLawrence ( talk) 00:17, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
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@ DamianPythias999: What is a "partner"? -- Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii ( talk) 18:21, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
I believe that this edit is unconstructive, confusing a reader into believing that it is possible that Prince Albert, who is married, some day might marry Miss Grimaldi's mother instead. If nobody can come up with a good reason to retain such inappropriate wording, I will be reverting it again. While I'm at it, I'll also word the sentence so that the controversial word legitimate is clearly linked to the line of succession. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 16:43, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
I do not believe it is in the interest of Wikipedia in 2019 to label any child of any kind as "illegitimate", nor do I believe it is necessary to do so to this extent. I will be making such changes again, unless we can get a good reason for such unnecessary labeling. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 21:08, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect First American Princess. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 ( talk) 20:36, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
I rolled back 2 promotional edits with unacceptable sources. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 13:54, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
She has never had any and never will. They section heading is wrong. Reverting again. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 12:50, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Some mischief is more humorous than other mischief. Sorry, I do know how excruciatingly inappropriate this comment is. But I just hadda. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 12:04, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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![]() | It is requested that a photograph of Jazmin Grace Grimaldi be
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improve its quality.
The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
Is it really that necessary to put what school she attends? I find it extremely frightening, given that she is still a minor, and her safety is a priority. Furthermore, why is it so important that people know where she goes to school? I think we should remove the line about where she attends school. Consider it. I won't remove it yet. Lets discuss it a bit first. Rbkl ( talk) 07:14, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Here is a question for discussion. I have read the Monegasque Constitution, and it does say that the throne is only inhereited throught the direct, legitimate line. However, what it neglects to state is what title the illegitimate children of a Sovereign Prince of Monaco shall have. For instance, a person who is not in the line of succession can still hold the title of Prince or Princess. In the cases of Jazmin and Alexandre, would it not be dynastic for them to use the appropriate titles of Prince and Princess of Monaco, given their fathers' position? Any response is welcomed. Rbkl ( talk) 09:37, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
I removed the phrase that the 2002 update of the constitution was the first change in 600 years. The first constitution of Monaco was only enacted in 1911. That was suspended in 1959 to be replaced in 1962 by the constitution that was amended in 2002.
Queen Brandissima - brandy.kelley@gmail.com
Wow. very interesting.....I guess you cannot blame Ms. Rotolo....it was an opportunity of a life time.
If she is an American and not subject to Monegasque law, shouldn't her last name still read "Grimaldi"?
It is my understanding that Jazmin Grace will use surname Grimaldi until she completes school. Then, her surname of use will be her mother's maiden name of Rotolo. Her half-brother, Alexandre, uses the surname of Coste, one adopted by his mother.
Does she still go to JSerra High? Meson man 23:52, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Please note birth certificate: Born GRIMALDI, Passport states Grimaldi. Neither Father, nor attorney for family, ever made any statement about either child using Grimaldi name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.149.250.188 ( talk) 18:08, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
If she were to move to Monaco and obtain citizenship (which is possible, she would have to obtain it the way you and I would-living there at least 10 years or as long as whomever is the monarch at the time she moves deems she is worthy of exemption...and given her lineage....yeah, or marry a Monegasque man and remain married for at least 5 years), she would have to change her last name to something else. However, because she is an American, she doesn't have to change anything legally as that statue in the Constitution does not hold in American laws. As for her half-brother, he also presently carries the surname Grimaldi since moving to London in 2012 or 2013 with his mother. In contrary to the above, Prince Albert HAS made statements, on numerous occasions, referring to Jazmin as a Grimaldi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.186.171.80 ( talk) 01:47, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
The comment that the child was born out of wedlock has been removed pending proper sourcing. There has been an OTRS complaint filed (Ticket#2007122110002539). I advised that the material could be re-added once sourcing was included. Please help us do this correctly. Thanks - JodyB talk 17:39, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
I've removed material that was unreferenced or speculative editorialising. Further, please remember that the subject is a minor, so we need to be sensitive here. Our policies on living subjects need to be strictly followed.-- Docg 13:33, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Article 10 of the constitution of Monaco: (translated from the French):
The succession to the throne, opened by death or abdication, takes place direct and legitimate issue of the reigning prince, by order of primogeniture with priority given to males within the same degree of kinship. In the absence of direct legitimate issue, the succession passes to the brothers and sisters of the reigning prince and their direct legitimate descendants, by order of primogeniture with priority given to males within the same degree of kinship. If the heir who would have acceded by virtue of the preceding paragraphs is deceased or has renounced before the succession became open, the succession passes to his own direct legitimate descendants, by order of primogeniture with priority given to males within the same degree of kinship. If the application of the preceding paragraphs does not fill the vacancy of the throne, the succession passes to a collateral appointed by the Crown Council upon same advice of the Regency Council. The powers of the prince are temporarily held by the Regency Council. The throne can only pass to a person holding Monegasque citizenship on the day the succession opens. The procedures of application of this article are set, as needed, by the statutes of the Sovereign Family, promulgated by Sovereign ordinance.
This replaces a section of the prior constitution which permitted illegitimate children of the prince to be adopted into the line of succession (Prince Louis II of Monaco adopted his bastard daughter Charlotte, who abdicated in favor of her son Prince Rainier. Had the current constitution have been in place, this would not have been possible). That the constitution adopted in 2002 removes this possibility is no accident; it was Rainier III's means of keeping his son's illegitimate children out of the succession. Much as the unnamed objector would like us to do so, it's impossible to discuss the succession to the throne of Monaco without discussing illegitimacy and its consequences. The descendants of Prince Rainier III were:
1 Rainier III of Monaco (1923 - 2005) & Grace Patricia Kelly (1929 - 1982) 1a Caroline of Monaco* (1957 - ) & Philippe Junot (1940 - ) 1b Caroline of Monaco* (1957 - ) & Stephano Casiraghi (1960 - 1990) 1 Andréa Casiraghi (1984 - ) 2 Charlotte Casiraghi (1986 - ) 3 Pierre Casiraghi (1987 - ) 1c Caroline of Monaco* (1957 - ) & Ernst August of Hanover (1954 - ) 1 Alexandra of Hanover (1999 - ) 2a Albert II of Monaco* (1958 - ) & Nicole Tossukpé (1971 - ) 1 (Eric) Alexandre (Stéphane) Coste (2003 - ) 2b Albert II of Monaco* (1958 - ) & Tamara Jean Rotolo (1961 - ) 1 Jazmin Grace Grimaldi (1992 - ) 3a Stephanie of Monaco* (1965 - ) & Daniel Ducruet (1964 - ) 1 Louis Robert Paul Ducruet (1992 - ) 2 Pauline Grace Ducruet (1994 - ) 3b Stephanie of Monaco* (1965 - ) & Jean-Raymond Gottleib (1967 - ) 1 Camille Marie Kelly Gottleib (1998 - ) 3c Stephanie of Monaco* (1965 - ) & Franco Knie 3d Stephanie of Monaco* (1965 - ) & Pierre Pinelli 3e Stephanie of Monaco* (1965 - ) & Adan Lopez Peres (~1974 - )
His son, Albert II, succeeded him. Albert might still marry and produce legitimate children; he could also marry the the mother of his illegitimate child Alexandre Coste and thus legitimate him. (He cannot do so with the mother of Jasmine, as Jasmine is not merely illegitimate, but adulterine). If Albert has no legitimate children at his death, the crown would pass to his sisters and their children. WIth Caroline and her children there are no issues of legitimacy. Of Stephanie's children, Louis and Pauline Ducruet were born (illegitimately) before her marriage to Daniel Ducruet, but the subsequent marriage of their parents legitimates them, and so they are in line to the succession. Camille Gottleib, because she is illegitimate, is not in the line of succession. - Nunh-huh 16:05, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
It is not pertinent to the article what High School she attends. Jons63 ( talk) 03:00, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Nowhere does the article state that Jazmin is illegitimate. To understand this (rather basic fact that is so very important for royal families) you must puzzle together several other statements from this and her mother's page.
Please state clearly the child is illegitimate. This is just a statement of fact and should not be construed as making a moral judgement. 85.227.226.235 ( talk) 16:35, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Now, it is mentioned she is an illegitimate child. But the adulterine part is not mentioned. Isn't that the reason she can't ever be part of the line of succession? If yes, then it definitely should on the article. 85.217.42.90 ( talk) 05:59, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
The Hello Magazine reference has been on this page for 2 1/2 years (until CDRL102 decided to remove as not relevant). The recent interview in Harper's Bazaar is also relevant because it is referenced as her "First Interview", and that it was conducted from the Palace in the Principality of Monaco. It establishes (historically) the relationship between father and daughter and extended family (despite repeated labels of illegitimacy, which should only referenced with regard to Heir). For the first time a legitimate publication was granted an interview (obviously approved by the Principality since took place at the Palace) that sets the record straight about the historical time-line and relationship between Prince Albert II and his two older children. Many publications have also recently published photos of her with family members, such as; Princess Stephanie's children, also establishing a historical record of the relationship. The article also states she attended the Christening of her recent Brother (true Heir) and sister. It is relevant because so much gossip has painted a different picture of Prince Albert's parental responsibilities -- and his public image is of historical interest. AbbyLawrence ( talk) 16:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
I notice that your defense begins with "I read"... "and (I) felt" it shouldn't be there... "I don't see..." No one said Wikipedia was a gossip site, and it certainly is not. However, it is often used and referred to as a reference tool (site) and the details published in these two reputable (not gossip) publications answer historical questions often raised regarding the subjects involved. Unsure, why you feel the need to arbitrarily edit the contents of the page simply because you feel it is not worthy. I suggest they remain because they historically and accurately (because they hold first-person quotes from the subjects involved) answer questions often raised about the subjects. You stated your position, which appears to be nothing more than you arbitrarily don't approve and this is not a worthy "for or against" defense of your position to keep or remove these articles. Clearly, certain topics regarding the subjects of these pages, since so often discussed, make it relevant. It is not speculation. It is not gossip. It is the "spoken words" of the subjects involved. therefore; it IS relevant. AbbyLawrence ( talk) 00:17, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
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@ DamianPythias999: What is a "partner"? -- Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii ( talk) 18:21, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
I believe that this edit is unconstructive, confusing a reader into believing that it is possible that Prince Albert, who is married, some day might marry Miss Grimaldi's mother instead. If nobody can come up with a good reason to retain such inappropriate wording, I will be reverting it again. While I'm at it, I'll also word the sentence so that the controversial word legitimate is clearly linked to the line of succession. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 16:43, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
I do not believe it is in the interest of Wikipedia in 2019 to label any child of any kind as "illegitimate", nor do I believe it is necessary to do so to this extent. I will be making such changes again, unless we can get a good reason for such unnecessary labeling. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 21:08, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect First American Princess. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 ( talk) 20:36, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
I rolled back 2 promotional edits with unacceptable sources. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 13:54, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
She has never had any and never will. They section heading is wrong. Reverting again. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 12:50, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Some mischief is more humorous than other mischief. Sorry, I do know how excruciatingly inappropriate this comment is. But I just hadda. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 12:04, 8 April 2021 (UTC)