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I only noticed this through some bot edits that revealed this, and I don't really care, but let's explicate it... so there's a wee bit of chatter of this person being of Croatian Slavic origin:
Are these sources mistaken, or are they just speculative, or? -- Joy [shallot] ( talk) 22:56, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
He might have some Slavic roots, especially Croatian. -- BrunoMed ( talk) 17:51, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/17877. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
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Jawhar and Johar are used interchangeably. Similar to Husayn and Husain and Hussain.
A ref: Qaidjoher Ezzuddin who's, as a matter of fact, named after 'Al Qaid Johar' or 'Al Qaid Jawhar' or 'Al Qaid Joher' or simply 'Qaidjoher'
For instance Al Qadi Nauman is also known as 'Qadi Nauman' or 'Qadi Noman'. It isn't uncommon for fatimid figures to be known by their titles, especially when it transitions to 'given names'. Like 'Abu Bakr' has, which is a title, a Kunya, and a given name, in the modern times.
Here's a ref of a book mentioning 'the Qaid Jawhar': https://books.google.com/books?id=cJuDafHpk3oC&pg=PA241&lpg=PA241
And here's a list of Huffaz of an Islamic institution based in multiple locations (Surat, Mumbai, Nairobi, Karachi, Houston) with four 'Qaid Johar' amongst them-- asserting the fact that 'Johar' is indeed an in-use (legal name) alternative spelling for Jawhar: https://www.mahadalquran.com/maq/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=371:1433&catid=44
I believe these citations are proof enough of 'Qaid Johar' or 'Al Qaid Johar' or 'Al Qaid Jawhar' being an alt name (which is also a given-name precisely because it is an alt name that has trickled its way into acceptance and identification with the general). al-Siqilli? Not so much. Notice how al-Siqilli is a suffix whilst al-Qaid is a prefix. So, they're not even the same thing. This is in reference to justification given to make the reverts: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/960568924
Now, if anyone has any counters to why 'Al Qaid Johar' isn't a valid alt name, I'm all ears. Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 20:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
cc: @ TheseusHeLl: and @ Cplakidas: Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 11:55, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Cplakidas: Thanks. Agree. But my gripe is with vernacular usage / romanization.
For instance, Mohammed (as in Mohammed bin Salman) is now a popular romanization for محمّد and not Muhammad (as in Muhammad Ali).
Another interesting usage that comes to mind is Dawood (داؤود) and Daud (داوُد), both used interchangeably in the recent years, and to mean the same thing or person. Searching for Qaid Johar disappointingly doesn't point to this page.
Surely, there must be a wikipedia guideline/policy for this?
I must say, I agree that most (in fact all the ones I could find) English books refer to him as Jawhar and not Johar, even though, I feel Jawhar = جؤهر and Johar = جوهر
That said, I guess, I also understand the policy to strictly stick to academic and published sources than rely on original research. Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 17:46, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Cplakidas: Agreed.
Btw, I found alternative spelling Johar mentioned in the books, too. Here's one such instance: https://books.google.com/books?id=UkRXCAAAQBAJ&pg=PT771
Good enough to add it as an alternative name within the article lead? Thanks. Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 16:47, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
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I only noticed this through some bot edits that revealed this, and I don't really care, but let's explicate it... so there's a wee bit of chatter of this person being of Croatian Slavic origin:
Are these sources mistaken, or are they just speculative, or? -- Joy [shallot] ( talk) 22:56, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
He might have some Slavic roots, especially Croatian. -- BrunoMed ( talk) 17:51, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/17877. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Sam Sailor 13:51, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
Jawhar and Johar are used interchangeably. Similar to Husayn and Husain and Hussain.
A ref: Qaidjoher Ezzuddin who's, as a matter of fact, named after 'Al Qaid Johar' or 'Al Qaid Jawhar' or 'Al Qaid Joher' or simply 'Qaidjoher'
For instance Al Qadi Nauman is also known as 'Qadi Nauman' or 'Qadi Noman'. It isn't uncommon for fatimid figures to be known by their titles, especially when it transitions to 'given names'. Like 'Abu Bakr' has, which is a title, a Kunya, and a given name, in the modern times.
Here's a ref of a book mentioning 'the Qaid Jawhar': https://books.google.com/books?id=cJuDafHpk3oC&pg=PA241&lpg=PA241
And here's a list of Huffaz of an Islamic institution based in multiple locations (Surat, Mumbai, Nairobi, Karachi, Houston) with four 'Qaid Johar' amongst them-- asserting the fact that 'Johar' is indeed an in-use (legal name) alternative spelling for Jawhar: https://www.mahadalquran.com/maq/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=371:1433&catid=44
I believe these citations are proof enough of 'Qaid Johar' or 'Al Qaid Johar' or 'Al Qaid Jawhar' being an alt name (which is also a given-name precisely because it is an alt name that has trickled its way into acceptance and identification with the general). al-Siqilli? Not so much. Notice how al-Siqilli is a suffix whilst al-Qaid is a prefix. So, they're not even the same thing. This is in reference to justification given to make the reverts: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/960568924
Now, if anyone has any counters to why 'Al Qaid Johar' isn't a valid alt name, I'm all ears. Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 20:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
cc: @ TheseusHeLl: and @ Cplakidas: Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 11:55, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Cplakidas: Thanks. Agree. But my gripe is with vernacular usage / romanization.
For instance, Mohammed (as in Mohammed bin Salman) is now a popular romanization for محمّد and not Muhammad (as in Muhammad Ali).
Another interesting usage that comes to mind is Dawood (داؤود) and Daud (داوُد), both used interchangeably in the recent years, and to mean the same thing or person. Searching for Qaid Johar disappointingly doesn't point to this page.
Surely, there must be a wikipedia guideline/policy for this?
I must say, I agree that most (in fact all the ones I could find) English books refer to him as Jawhar and not Johar, even though, I feel Jawhar = جؤهر and Johar = جوهر
That said, I guess, I also understand the policy to strictly stick to academic and published sources than rely on original research. Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 17:46, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Cplakidas: Agreed.
Btw, I found alternative spelling Johar mentioned in the books, too. Here's one such instance: https://books.google.com/books?id=UkRXCAAAQBAJ&pg=PT771
Good enough to add it as an alternative name within the article lead? Thanks. Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 16:47, 21 June 2020 (UTC)