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This is the final Pima County press release WhisperToMe ( talk) 19:23, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 10:33, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
We haven't used YouTube to its full potential as a source for his opinions. We only used it once. Although, browsing through his old channel, the videos just confirm the info we have from friends and whatnot, we could still use this to add to the article. His channel is here. You can tell by watching his videos that his friends' accounts of his behaviour seem true (IE being anti-government, asking a question then asking another one completely unrelated, obsession with certain phrases or topics like "being the treasurer of a new currency," the literacy of the viewer in English, "A.D.E.", probably meaning C.E/A.D. being "...endless in year[no "s", he wrote singular]." and of course, dreaming). YouTube should play a more prominent role in this article's sources for his views. Widgetdog ( talk) 04:49, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
"A photograph taken by the Pima County Sheriff's Office's forensic unit was released to the media on January 10, 2011[67] and published on front pages nationwide." Maybe if they'd stop doing this every time, people with delusions of grandeur would stop killing people. They figure it's the only way they'll ever get entered into the history books. I thought that the "photo of a handgun sitting on top of "A Book of US History" was interesting; might be saying that he wanted to become part of US history himself. AnnaGoFast ( talk) 19:05, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:08, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:53, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
I do not think it's a good idea to publish a photo of a smiling assassin. This man killed a 9 year old girl and a number of innocent people, probably just to "become famous" in his insane way. This photo is an encouragement. The photo is not a necessary encyclopaedic requirement for this voice, and it can be taken down.
The photo of this killer is highly questionable, and the results of any previous discussion are still questionable, too. Based on the rules and guidelines of wikipedia (and of any decent person) you cannot act in ways that may offend victims of a crime, especially minor ones.
-read the rule: avoid victimization "Wikipedia editors must not act, intentionally or otherwise, in a way that amounts to participating in or prolonging the victimization"
The publication of this photo of a criminal smiling against the victims, is an insult to dead people, victims of a brutal crime, and their relatives, and the survivors. And this is absolutely no ENCYCLOPEDIC, and against any wikipedia policy, and any policy of any decent institution. The presence of a photo is *not* a demand to an encyclopedic voice: absence it does *not* diminish the voice. And when a topic or voice, or parts of it, creates problems to recognized victims of crimes, the policy of wikipedia is to be conservative, and act in the less provocative direction and in the more protective way in favor of the damaged people.
- read the wikipedia rule: avoid victimization "...of particular importance when dealing with living individuals whose notability stems largely or entirely from being victims of another's actions"
- read the wikipedia rule: Verifiability does not guarantee inclusion "While information must be verifiable in order to be included in an article, this does not mean that all verifiable information must be included in an article"
Simply it is not decent to put the photos of this individual, mocking their victims, online: he killed people just for the reason to have his photos on public media, by his own admission, and wikipedia is a public media. This fact "solo" offends the victims, among them a dead girl of 9 years old, a minor, and their parents. The act offends victims. But the act also solicitates other lunatic killers to act similarly. This is against the laws and any reasonable decency: publish the photo is a solicitation to imitation. This just for a photo?
I removed a very questionable photo and it was simply restored, without looking for consensus. The guy that restored the photo does not have the authority to restore it, without the consensus of other pepole, because it was removed for a good reason and to protect wikipedia image and decency, hence - he- have to wait for a discussion before restoring it. Following the rules...
-read the rule: Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Restoring deleted content "To ensure that material about living people is written neutrally to a high standard, and based on high-quality reliable sources, the burden of proof is on those who wish to [..] undelete the disputed material"
Probably those who loves to restore questionable photos, before asking for consensus, should have taken more time to familiarize themselves with the wikipedia rules, to understand and comprehend the principles behind them.
I did not want to delete the photo again, even if it is evidently unfair towards victimes, vaguely immoral, and against the wikipedia guidelines. But, pal, please do not bother me in written form with your presuntively adherence to never written guidelines, or pretending to having act following good practices. This practice is not good. If you have something reasonable to say, use the talk sections, and follow the best practice... and read the guidelines.
This Guardian piece was inaccurately described in the article as an "opinion piece"; it is categorized under news, not opinion. Look at the top and you'll see it's under their "news" tab, not their opinion one; likewise, the categorization is "US news" - the Guardian has a separate category for opinion. When I corrected it, someone reverted with the argument that the words "described the tone" makes it an opinion piece, but that isn't the case - a news article (like that one) can absolutely summarize the tone of writings. We have to go by what the sources say; if it specifically describes itself as news and not opinion, an editor can't say "well, I think the word 'tone' is opinion." For comparison, this is what an opinion piece in the Guardian looks like. -- Aquillion ( talk) 21:34, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
This is the final Pima County press release WhisperToMe ( talk) 19:23, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Jared Lee Loughner. Please take a moment to review
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 10:33, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
We haven't used YouTube to its full potential as a source for his opinions. We only used it once. Although, browsing through his old channel, the videos just confirm the info we have from friends and whatnot, we could still use this to add to the article. His channel is here. You can tell by watching his videos that his friends' accounts of his behaviour seem true (IE being anti-government, asking a question then asking another one completely unrelated, obsession with certain phrases or topics like "being the treasurer of a new currency," the literacy of the viewer in English, "A.D.E.", probably meaning C.E/A.D. being "...endless in year[no "s", he wrote singular]." and of course, dreaming). YouTube should play a more prominent role in this article's sources for his views. Widgetdog ( talk) 04:49, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
"A photograph taken by the Pima County Sheriff's Office's forensic unit was released to the media on January 10, 2011[67] and published on front pages nationwide." Maybe if they'd stop doing this every time, people with delusions of grandeur would stop killing people. They figure it's the only way they'll ever get entered into the history books. I thought that the "photo of a handgun sitting on top of "A Book of US History" was interesting; might be saying that he wanted to become part of US history himself. AnnaGoFast ( talk) 19:05, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 7 external links on Jared Lee Loughner. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:08, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Jared Lee Loughner. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:53, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
I do not think it's a good idea to publish a photo of a smiling assassin. This man killed a 9 year old girl and a number of innocent people, probably just to "become famous" in his insane way. This photo is an encouragement. The photo is not a necessary encyclopaedic requirement for this voice, and it can be taken down.
The photo of this killer is highly questionable, and the results of any previous discussion are still questionable, too. Based on the rules and guidelines of wikipedia (and of any decent person) you cannot act in ways that may offend victims of a crime, especially minor ones.
-read the rule: avoid victimization "Wikipedia editors must not act, intentionally or otherwise, in a way that amounts to participating in or prolonging the victimization"
The publication of this photo of a criminal smiling against the victims, is an insult to dead people, victims of a brutal crime, and their relatives, and the survivors. And this is absolutely no ENCYCLOPEDIC, and against any wikipedia policy, and any policy of any decent institution. The presence of a photo is *not* a demand to an encyclopedic voice: absence it does *not* diminish the voice. And when a topic or voice, or parts of it, creates problems to recognized victims of crimes, the policy of wikipedia is to be conservative, and act in the less provocative direction and in the more protective way in favor of the damaged people.
- read the wikipedia rule: avoid victimization "...of particular importance when dealing with living individuals whose notability stems largely or entirely from being victims of another's actions"
- read the wikipedia rule: Verifiability does not guarantee inclusion "While information must be verifiable in order to be included in an article, this does not mean that all verifiable information must be included in an article"
Simply it is not decent to put the photos of this individual, mocking their victims, online: he killed people just for the reason to have his photos on public media, by his own admission, and wikipedia is a public media. This fact "solo" offends the victims, among them a dead girl of 9 years old, a minor, and their parents. The act offends victims. But the act also solicitates other lunatic killers to act similarly. This is against the laws and any reasonable decency: publish the photo is a solicitation to imitation. This just for a photo?
I removed a very questionable photo and it was simply restored, without looking for consensus. The guy that restored the photo does not have the authority to restore it, without the consensus of other pepole, because it was removed for a good reason and to protect wikipedia image and decency, hence - he- have to wait for a discussion before restoring it. Following the rules...
-read the rule: Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Restoring deleted content "To ensure that material about living people is written neutrally to a high standard, and based on high-quality reliable sources, the burden of proof is on those who wish to [..] undelete the disputed material"
Probably those who loves to restore questionable photos, before asking for consensus, should have taken more time to familiarize themselves with the wikipedia rules, to understand and comprehend the principles behind them.
I did not want to delete the photo again, even if it is evidently unfair towards victimes, vaguely immoral, and against the wikipedia guidelines. But, pal, please do not bother me in written form with your presuntively adherence to never written guidelines, or pretending to having act following good practices. This practice is not good. If you have something reasonable to say, use the talk sections, and follow the best practice... and read the guidelines.
This Guardian piece was inaccurately described in the article as an "opinion piece"; it is categorized under news, not opinion. Look at the top and you'll see it's under their "news" tab, not their opinion one; likewise, the categorization is "US news" - the Guardian has a separate category for opinion. When I corrected it, someone reverted with the argument that the words "described the tone" makes it an opinion piece, but that isn't the case - a news article (like that one) can absolutely summarize the tone of writings. We have to go by what the sources say; if it specifically describes itself as news and not opinion, an editor can't say "well, I think the word 'tone' is opinion." For comparison, this is what an opinion piece in the Guardian looks like. -- Aquillion ( talk) 21:34, 9 July 2019 (UTC)