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This paragraph gives in impression that the Jomon-Yayoi contribution ratio in the Japanese was 1:15, while in reality it was between 1:1 or 1:2 on the direct male line, and the Jomon contribution was probably even more pronounced overall. -- Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii ( talk) 22:19, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
I reverted a mass of edits by @ Dr. Hud:: none has an edit summary, some are clearly controversial (like moving the paragraph on Christianity to the beginning of the section), some strange (rearranging paragraphs out of chronological sequence, removing images). The editor appears to have a history of not responding to questions, so revert is the next step ("BRD"). Imaginatorium ( talk) 05:53, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
@ Dr. Hud: The above is my justification for reverting your contributions. Please read WP:BRD; this is the "Discuss" step, and means you have to provide a justification for your edits. Imaginatorium ( talk) 14:25, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Numbers given have ranged from 20,000 to 200,000, but there are no definitive sources that have been given. The 255,000 number that was here recently had no cites at all. Here is what I have been able to find:
I have not been able to find anything more helpful in Japanese. There are other advocacy groups but they don't tend to make numerical claims. A large number of Filipino people in Japan have/claim Japanese descent, but that is not material for the number in this article. The removals and reversions here have also been quite tendentious, including what at first glance could be taken to be editing while logged out. I suggest that we return the number to 120,000 and retain all three sources, which readers can judge according to their own standards. I don't think there is any justification for keeping only the high figure from an unreliable source. Pinging Nihonjoe, Johanry. Dekimasu よ! 05:39, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
The article says: In recent decades, there has also been an increase in the number of multiracial people with both Japanese and non-Japanese roots, including half Japanese people., which is totally true. In a previous version I edited, it also said: in some cases, these people may also identify or be regarded as Japanese., but this information has been deleted. Is it because, in the English-speaking countries, it is "bad" to say that having one parent belonging to Ethnic Group #1 may not necessarily and automatically give you the status of being a member of the Ethnic Group #1? I have the impression that, contrary to Japan, you see ethnicity as basically a synonym of race (or a sub-division of big races). If this is true, then yes, anyone with Japanese roots is ethnically Japanese; for example, the Nikkei people would be ethnically Japanese, which is, seen from Japan, not correct, because ethnicity is not only a matter of biological heritage, but it is also necessary to speak Japanese natively, to be culturally Japanese (behaviors, cultural references, etc.), and lastly, in general, to be a Japanese national. In that sense, Japanese ethnicity is inherited from one's parents (or just one parent for the so-called hāfu, etc.), but unlike to the racial thing, there are also important environmental factors to take into account.
For example, Naomi Osaka, a Japanese national, may generally not seen as Japanese on an ethnic level, because, first and foremost, she cannot speak Japanese (almost) at all. (Of course she may be seen as Japanese, in the sense that she is a compatriot and has a Japanese genealogy in part).
People are free to self-identify to what they want, but fixing boundaries for the studied concepts is necessary in any scientific approach, I think. The point is not to say that half-Japanese are never regarded as ethnically Japanese (many are), but that it actually depends on many factors, i.e. an ethnic group is not just a biological concept. Maidodo ( talk) 07:34, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 September 2023 and 15 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ehosa ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Racoon dolphin ( talk) 06:56, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Japanese people article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3Auto-archiving period: 180 days |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
To-do list for Japanese people:
|
This paragraph gives in impression that the Jomon-Yayoi contribution ratio in the Japanese was 1:15, while in reality it was between 1:1 or 1:2 on the direct male line, and the Jomon contribution was probably even more pronounced overall. -- Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii ( talk) 22:19, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
I reverted a mass of edits by @ Dr. Hud:: none has an edit summary, some are clearly controversial (like moving the paragraph on Christianity to the beginning of the section), some strange (rearranging paragraphs out of chronological sequence, removing images). The editor appears to have a history of not responding to questions, so revert is the next step ("BRD"). Imaginatorium ( talk) 05:53, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
@ Dr. Hud: The above is my justification for reverting your contributions. Please read WP:BRD; this is the "Discuss" step, and means you have to provide a justification for your edits. Imaginatorium ( talk) 14:25, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Numbers given have ranged from 20,000 to 200,000, but there are no definitive sources that have been given. The 255,000 number that was here recently had no cites at all. Here is what I have been able to find:
I have not been able to find anything more helpful in Japanese. There are other advocacy groups but they don't tend to make numerical claims. A large number of Filipino people in Japan have/claim Japanese descent, but that is not material for the number in this article. The removals and reversions here have also been quite tendentious, including what at first glance could be taken to be editing while logged out. I suggest that we return the number to 120,000 and retain all three sources, which readers can judge according to their own standards. I don't think there is any justification for keeping only the high figure from an unreliable source. Pinging Nihonjoe, Johanry. Dekimasu よ! 05:39, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
The article says: In recent decades, there has also been an increase in the number of multiracial people with both Japanese and non-Japanese roots, including half Japanese people., which is totally true. In a previous version I edited, it also said: in some cases, these people may also identify or be regarded as Japanese., but this information has been deleted. Is it because, in the English-speaking countries, it is "bad" to say that having one parent belonging to Ethnic Group #1 may not necessarily and automatically give you the status of being a member of the Ethnic Group #1? I have the impression that, contrary to Japan, you see ethnicity as basically a synonym of race (or a sub-division of big races). If this is true, then yes, anyone with Japanese roots is ethnically Japanese; for example, the Nikkei people would be ethnically Japanese, which is, seen from Japan, not correct, because ethnicity is not only a matter of biological heritage, but it is also necessary to speak Japanese natively, to be culturally Japanese (behaviors, cultural references, etc.), and lastly, in general, to be a Japanese national. In that sense, Japanese ethnicity is inherited from one's parents (or just one parent for the so-called hāfu, etc.), but unlike to the racial thing, there are also important environmental factors to take into account.
For example, Naomi Osaka, a Japanese national, may generally not seen as Japanese on an ethnic level, because, first and foremost, she cannot speak Japanese (almost) at all. (Of course she may be seen as Japanese, in the sense that she is a compatriot and has a Japanese genealogy in part).
People are free to self-identify to what they want, but fixing boundaries for the studied concepts is necessary in any scientific approach, I think. The point is not to say that half-Japanese are never regarded as ethnically Japanese (many are), but that it actually depends on many factors, i.e. an ethnic group is not just a biological concept. Maidodo ( talk) 07:34, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 September 2023 and 15 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ehosa ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Racoon dolphin ( talk) 06:56, 12 November 2023 (UTC)