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Amir Rapaport, editor and publisher of the magazine Israel Defense, said that the video broadcast Saturday on Syrian television showed an armored vehicle that seemed to belong to the SA-8 missile system. He suggested that the Syrians may have put the SA-8s at the scene after the fact because they had promised the Russians not to transfer newer SA-17s to Lebanon.http://missilethreat.com/israeli-strike-into-syria-said-to-damage-research-site/
I agree, but "He suggested that the Syrians may have put the SA-8s at the scene after the fact", meaning the video was possibly faked.
Marokwitz (
talk)
11:54, 5 February 2013 (UTC)reply
Well, we don't know what was the real target of the attack, we don't know whether the video was faked or not, but one thing we know for sure - the video showed SA-8, not SA-17.
Flayer (
talk)
14:17, 5 February 2013 (UTC)reply
But the article currently doesn't even mention the video. In context of the video, this is a relevant fact. In all other places, we need to stick with what reliable sources say.
Marokwitz (
talk)
07:26, 6 February 2013 (UTC)reply
Could the real target be the research centre. The SAM systems might have been targetted to enable an attack on the research centre!!--
Petebutt (
talk)
08:34, 7 February 2013 (UTC)reply
since the Airstrike this article is about was just the first of a series of attacks, it probaly make sense, to change the subject of this article away from the january-Airstrike alone to the subject of Israeli Airstrikes while Syrian Civil war in general.
Therefore I propose, to expand this article into this more general topic, or creating such an article with this article as one of the Incidents listed there. --
134.91.40.4 (
talk)
08:15, 8 May 2013 (UTC)reply
Conflict scope
Iranit, are there any sources that label this incident as "Arab-Israeli conflict"? I haven't seen a single one, on the contrary - it is put as part of the
Israel-Iran proxy conflict. In addition, Syria is factually out of the Arab League, and their seat is taken by opposition. Even considering IAF indeed is responsible for the event (which is not 100% certain yet), the incident WAS NOT between Israel and the Arab League (where Syrian opposition is now seated).
Greyshark09 (
talk)
16:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC)reply
Hi. (Sorry for the inconvenience first). True, but there is no element to discard this article from belonging to wider Arab-Israeli conflict. In fact, it's under 1RR restriction like all ARBPIA articles. It was an allegedly Israeli attack on a long-standing enemy: Arab Republic of Syria. An Arab country is not defined by its membership to the Arab League. Are we agreed?--
IranitGreenberg (
talk)
16:40, 12 May 2013 (UTC)reply
Iranit, you are engaging in
synthesis - you are taking two facts (Israel was in war with Syria & war with Syria was part of the Arab-Israeli conflict), and make a third assumption - that current incident is also a part of AI conflict. the Arab-Israeli conflict is defined as "the conflict between Israel and the Arab League". Period.
Considering that in fact Syrian Assad government is fighting the Arab League seated Syrian opposition, it in fact makes the Arab Republic of Syria an enemy of the Arab League. You can of course see what an absurd is to include an incident between Syrian Assad government (or their allies - Hizbullah+Iran) and Israel in January 2013 as part of the AI-conflict.
Greyshark09 (
talk)
17:08, 12 May 2013 (UTC)reply
Alleged Israeli involvement?
Is that a joke? Almost all sources state clearly that Israel did attack Syria. Can someone explain, why it is 'alleged'? Just because Israel did not confirm? Come on! --
Emesik (
talk)
15:08, 31 May 2013 (UTC)reply
What kind of proof do you need? Ehud Barak explaining the motives, U.S. officials saying Israel did it, absence of other force capable of such strike and willing to do it,
cui bono — is that not enough? The most important reason is that sources say it was Israeli strike. And we should follow the sources. --
Emesik (
talk)
23:13, 31 May 2013 (UTC)reply
"Proof" is evidence material provided to UN by Syrian government. Just allegation is not enough, because often Israel is automatically accused and sometimes even ridiculously, like allegedly sending sharks and vultures to spy on Arab countries. If Israel officially admits - that also works out (like Operation Opera); regarding Operation Orchard i would tend to agree that Israel "semi-admitted" as well.
You are very emotional on this, since in your subjective view Israeli role is obvious. However, objectively there is still a reasonable possibility that another party was behind the Rif Dimashq attack in January (and also May). Hezbollah and Iran have enough enemies in the West, including even Turkey and some of the Arab League countries also have the means and intentions to disrupt Iranian-Syrian-Hezbollah alliance. Israel is very convenient to be considered "responsible", thus they don't deny or confirm; but that doesn't explicitly say they are indeed the attackers. This is a clear case of WP:ATT (see
Wikipedia:Attribution).
Greyshark09 (
talk)
09:29, 2 June 2013 (UTC)reply
There are many secondary reliable sources which say straight it was Israeli attack. Examples here:
[1][2] The second one even explains how the strike was performed.
I haven't encountered any source naming another possible perpetrator. If you have, I'd be happy to see it. Without going too deep into
WP:OR, I'd say that neither Turkey nor the Gulf States were
capable of performing a strike within Syrian airspace.
If we need hard, undeniable evidence, perhaps the word alleged should be added
here? There is still a reasonable possibility that it was an insider job and the evidence published is not very convincing. --
Emesik (
talk)
16:07, 2 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Did they walk away from the rubble to testify? Or you mean fair trials of Osama and those who spent holidays at Gitmo resort? --
Emesik (
talk)
21:34, 2 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Editors who violate any listed restrictions may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense.
An editor must be
aware before they can be sanctioned.
With respect to any reverting restrictions:
Edits made solely to enforce any clearly established consensus are exempt from all edit-warring restrictions. In order to be considered "clearly established" the consensus must be proven by prior talk-page discussion.
Edits made which remove or otherwise change any material placed by clearly established consensus, without first obtaining consensus to do so, may be treated in the same manner as clear vandalism.
Clear vandalism of any origin may be reverted without restriction.
Reverts of edits made by anonymous (IP) editors that are not vandalism are exempt from the 1RR but are subject to
the usual rules on edit warring. If you are in doubt, contact an administrator for assistance.
If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. Remember: When in doubt, don't revert!
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Syria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Syria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SyriaWikipedia:WikiProject SyriaTemplate:WikiProject SyriaSyria articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
International relations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International relationsWikipedia:WikiProject International relationsTemplate:WikiProject International relationsInternational relations articles
Amir Rapaport, editor and publisher of the magazine Israel Defense, said that the video broadcast Saturday on Syrian television showed an armored vehicle that seemed to belong to the SA-8 missile system. He suggested that the Syrians may have put the SA-8s at the scene after the fact because they had promised the Russians not to transfer newer SA-17s to Lebanon.http://missilethreat.com/israeli-strike-into-syria-said-to-damage-research-site/
I agree, but "He suggested that the Syrians may have put the SA-8s at the scene after the fact", meaning the video was possibly faked.
Marokwitz (
talk)
11:54, 5 February 2013 (UTC)reply
Well, we don't know what was the real target of the attack, we don't know whether the video was faked or not, but one thing we know for sure - the video showed SA-8, not SA-17.
Flayer (
talk)
14:17, 5 February 2013 (UTC)reply
But the article currently doesn't even mention the video. In context of the video, this is a relevant fact. In all other places, we need to stick with what reliable sources say.
Marokwitz (
talk)
07:26, 6 February 2013 (UTC)reply
Could the real target be the research centre. The SAM systems might have been targetted to enable an attack on the research centre!!--
Petebutt (
talk)
08:34, 7 February 2013 (UTC)reply
since the Airstrike this article is about was just the first of a series of attacks, it probaly make sense, to change the subject of this article away from the january-Airstrike alone to the subject of Israeli Airstrikes while Syrian Civil war in general.
Therefore I propose, to expand this article into this more general topic, or creating such an article with this article as one of the Incidents listed there. --
134.91.40.4 (
talk)
08:15, 8 May 2013 (UTC)reply
Conflict scope
Iranit, are there any sources that label this incident as "Arab-Israeli conflict"? I haven't seen a single one, on the contrary - it is put as part of the
Israel-Iran proxy conflict. In addition, Syria is factually out of the Arab League, and their seat is taken by opposition. Even considering IAF indeed is responsible for the event (which is not 100% certain yet), the incident WAS NOT between Israel and the Arab League (where Syrian opposition is now seated).
Greyshark09 (
talk)
16:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC)reply
Hi. (Sorry for the inconvenience first). True, but there is no element to discard this article from belonging to wider Arab-Israeli conflict. In fact, it's under 1RR restriction like all ARBPIA articles. It was an allegedly Israeli attack on a long-standing enemy: Arab Republic of Syria. An Arab country is not defined by its membership to the Arab League. Are we agreed?--
IranitGreenberg (
talk)
16:40, 12 May 2013 (UTC)reply
Iranit, you are engaging in
synthesis - you are taking two facts (Israel was in war with Syria & war with Syria was part of the Arab-Israeli conflict), and make a third assumption - that current incident is also a part of AI conflict. the Arab-Israeli conflict is defined as "the conflict between Israel and the Arab League". Period.
Considering that in fact Syrian Assad government is fighting the Arab League seated Syrian opposition, it in fact makes the Arab Republic of Syria an enemy of the Arab League. You can of course see what an absurd is to include an incident between Syrian Assad government (or their allies - Hizbullah+Iran) and Israel in January 2013 as part of the AI-conflict.
Greyshark09 (
talk)
17:08, 12 May 2013 (UTC)reply
Alleged Israeli involvement?
Is that a joke? Almost all sources state clearly that Israel did attack Syria. Can someone explain, why it is 'alleged'? Just because Israel did not confirm? Come on! --
Emesik (
talk)
15:08, 31 May 2013 (UTC)reply
What kind of proof do you need? Ehud Barak explaining the motives, U.S. officials saying Israel did it, absence of other force capable of such strike and willing to do it,
cui bono — is that not enough? The most important reason is that sources say it was Israeli strike. And we should follow the sources. --
Emesik (
talk)
23:13, 31 May 2013 (UTC)reply
"Proof" is evidence material provided to UN by Syrian government. Just allegation is not enough, because often Israel is automatically accused and sometimes even ridiculously, like allegedly sending sharks and vultures to spy on Arab countries. If Israel officially admits - that also works out (like Operation Opera); regarding Operation Orchard i would tend to agree that Israel "semi-admitted" as well.
You are very emotional on this, since in your subjective view Israeli role is obvious. However, objectively there is still a reasonable possibility that another party was behind the Rif Dimashq attack in January (and also May). Hezbollah and Iran have enough enemies in the West, including even Turkey and some of the Arab League countries also have the means and intentions to disrupt Iranian-Syrian-Hezbollah alliance. Israel is very convenient to be considered "responsible", thus they don't deny or confirm; but that doesn't explicitly say they are indeed the attackers. This is a clear case of WP:ATT (see
Wikipedia:Attribution).
Greyshark09 (
talk)
09:29, 2 June 2013 (UTC)reply
There are many secondary reliable sources which say straight it was Israeli attack. Examples here:
[1][2] The second one even explains how the strike was performed.
I haven't encountered any source naming another possible perpetrator. If you have, I'd be happy to see it. Without going too deep into
WP:OR, I'd say that neither Turkey nor the Gulf States were
capable of performing a strike within Syrian airspace.
If we need hard, undeniable evidence, perhaps the word alleged should be added
here? There is still a reasonable possibility that it was an insider job and the evidence published is not very convincing. --
Emesik (
talk)
16:07, 2 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Did they walk away from the rubble to testify? Or you mean fair trials of Osama and those who spent holidays at Gitmo resort? --
Emesik (
talk)
21:34, 2 June 2013 (UTC)reply