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"I have been disappointed in not finding any mention of Mewat during the long reign of Firoz Shah himself, which covers the very period when the mass of the people of Mewat, both Khanzadahs and Meos, are said to have become Musalmans. That these conversions were not unattended with persecution we may gather from the following accounts written by Firoz himself of the way in which he suppressed the idol-worship of the Hindus in three different places...."
Source: Report of a Tour in Eastern Rajputana in 1882-83 By Alexander Cunningham, pp14 —Preceding unsigned comment added by History Sleuth ( talk • contribs) 21:46, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Tomars as part of Meos. Meo of Tungar clans claim descent from Pandavas. Meos are mixtures of Jadons, Tomars (Janjuas), Kachchwahas and aboriginal Meena tribes.
"....In fact nearly one-half of their chief clans, or five pals out of twelve, claim descent from Jadon ancestors. The following list gives the names of their alleged progenitors. — Jadon clans . . I. Chhirkilat. 2. Dalat. 3. Demrot. 4. Nai. 5. Pundelot.
Tomar clans . . 1. Balot. 2. Darwar. 3. Kalesa. 4. Lundavat. 5. Rattawat.
...."
Source: Report of a Tour in Eastern Rajputana in 1882-83 By Alexander Cunningham, pp23
Are Tomars and Janjuas not connected ? Abu Fazl cannot be dismissed that easily.
BTW, I have no interest in linking Janjuas with Yaduvanshis other than purely scholarly interest in studying the failure of intra-Chandravanshi Rajput relations and alliances in their inablity to have formed a common front under a strong Rajput king to fight Turk invaders. The relationship of Kuru and Yadava clans are too old and too well attested in Hindu texts to merit any discussion.
FYI, RSS's head , Rajinder Singh, is perhaps your kinsman. He is a Tomar Rajput. Send him a message and see how he responds regarding your claim of representing Arjuna's lineal and spiritual heritage and being a Muslim Janjua. Just kidding :-)
I will give you son-in-law citation later. I can't locate it at the moment but I am pretty sure I saw that in one of Cunningham's works.
Last point. Guru Nanak was not hostile to Islam but he did not support conversion of Hindus to Islam. The central objectve of Sikhism was to prevent conversions to Islam by emphasizing the superior aspects of Indian spirituality. If Sikh Gurus were at all impressed with Islam, they would have converted themselves but instead they built armies to resist aggressive Islamic proselytization.
Talk later.-- History Sleuth ( talk) 22:11, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Raja Saheb, I must say that despite disagreeing with you I have come to like you. Take full pride in your Janjua ancestry. Someday you will see light again and return to Dharma of your ancestors. I will not edit this article without your permission out of courtesy though I feel greatly tempted to do so to present a Sikh/Hindu perspective of history which you have entirely suppressed in the article. Of course, both of us are biased from each other's standpoint and truth is somewere in the middle of the positions we have taken. I have to confess when I see a Muslim Rajput, my soul cries out. A part of me wants to embrace him but another part of me is bitterly angry at him in having forsaken something that was far greater than what he got in the bargain. I know you won't agree but let us agree to disagree again. Best wishes.-- History Sleuth ( talk) 02:56, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
References
Raja Saheb,
Don't tell people that converted Janjuas were impervious to financial incentives and did not also convert to Islam to escape Jizya:
Here is a reference from Firoze Shah Tughlak's autobiography . See Elliot's Muhammadan Historians, Vol. III, p. 386 which contains the following account (and this is not the only one):
" I encouraged my infidel subjects to embrace the religion of the Prophet, and proclaimed that every one who repeated the creed and became a Musalman should be exempt from the Jezia, or poll tax. Information of this came to the ears of the people, and great numbers of Hindus presented themselves and were admitted to the honour of Islam. Thus they came forward day by day from every quarter, and, adopting the faith, were exonerated from the Jezia, and were favoured with presents and honours."
-- History Sleuth ( talk) 20:14, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, Raja Saheb, if I seem to be raining on your parade again with these citations::-) But you beat me to it. Given below is Cunnhingham's commentary whom you cannot excuse of being a "Hindu extremist".
yes, I misspelt
The following commentary of Cunningham is about the Khanzadas of Mewat who included converted Janjua as well as Jadon Rajputs.
The former took the name of Bahadur Khan and held Sarhata (only 4 miles to the east of Tejara), while the latter took the name of Chajju Khan, and obtained Jhirka. From these two brothers are descended all the families who lay claim to the title of Khanzadah. Why they became Muhammadans has not been recorded. It is a common belief that they changed their religion to save their lives ; and knowing the plundering habits of the Mewatis and their general turbulence, the belief is perhaps well founded. I think, however, that the two brothers may have embraced the Muhammadan religion for the purpose of regaining their estates of Sarhata and Jhirka, which had been annexed to Delhi by Feroz Tughlak.
Source: See "Report of a Tour in Eastern Rajputana in 1882-83 By Alexander Cunningham, pp11, Published by Office of the Superintendent of Government Printing, 1885, Original from Oxford University
" ....the Khanzadahs were chiefly converted Janjuha Rajputs."
Source: Blochmann's Ain-i-Akbari, p. 334-- History Sleuth ( talk) 20:14, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Raja Saheb, thanks for spirited responses but I think Janjua connection with Meos is too well documented to even need references. Janjua king had taken over Mathura because Yaduvanshi king did not have male heir and he gave the kingdom to his Janjua son-in-law. The area around Delhi had once large Hindu Janjua concentration. When Ghazni attacked Mathura, a Janjua king closely related to Yaduvanshi rajputs was in charge. Janjuas and Yaduvanshis of that era were too closely allied and related not to have shared common bloodlines and historical impacts. So Abu Fazl is not off the mark when he comments that Meos have Janjuas in them too. Yaduvanshis and Janjuas of that time and region were too closely related to be entirely distinct from each other. Their mutual alliance and kinship date saveral centuries before the Turk invasion. So you cannot dismiss Abu Fazl that easily. Yes, the conversion under duress argument will apply to Yaduvanshis as well.
I have to run now. Just last comment about Guru Nanak. I did not deliberately provide wrong translation but had done the copy paste in haste. I think you are smart enough to know that the verses holds full relevance and meaning with regard to Sikh perception of Babar, even though Arun Shorie ( a journalist of some note in India) mistranslated the word Khurasan. The mistranslation of Khurasan is a red herring you are using to deny the Sikh perception of invasion of rule of Babar. It is not a propaganda but a living artifact of Sikh religion, something that gets recited in all Sikh gurudwaras almost every day. No Sikh will see any pride in having been Babar's ally. The Patiala Sikhs are taunted to this day for having allied with Abadali.
“ | Allah is the unseen, inscrutable, inaccessible, omnipotent (Qadir) and bounteous (Karim) creator. The entire world is subject to coming and going. The mericful (Rahim) Lord alone is permanent (1st - 64/1/219)....To be called a Muslim is difficult....first he ought to deem sweet the religion of the Lord's devotees....Becoming a true disciple of the faith of the Prophet, let him put aside the illusion of death...therefore is he is merciful to all sentinent beings, O Nanak, then alone shall he be called a Musalman (1st - 141/1/468)....My immaculate Lord (Pak Allah) knows thy condition (5th - 723/2/2360-1).....May I not forget Allah who is my mind, my soul and my very life (5th- 1138/7/3743-4) | ” |
— Direct translations of Guru Granth Sahib [1] |
Yes, there were genuine conversions of faith either way too but that is not the entire picture. Your article makes no mention of Jizya and forced conversons which is rather absurd. From another group's perception Hindu Janjuas had "valiantly" fought islam until the organized might of Islam made them succumb to Turk power and the real Janjua heroes were the ones who resisted Islam. This is another way of looking at it, coming from a Hindu angle (biased of couse). Your narrative goes as if Janjuas woke up peacefully to be Muslim one day after a Nirvana moment. It did not happen that way. The reasons were vert complex and often ver tragic and I think you can afford to do more justice with that theme....cheers...bye for now!
References
The article has extensive info regarding Muslim Janjua Rajputs, because most citable and referenced information available is of them only. If there are any Hindu or Sikh Janjua Rajputs who come across this page and have any information regarding their specific history, please contribute to the article or get in contact with me directly by clicking on my username and I will aid the incorporation of that info into this article for you if you prefer.
It is very important that our Hindu and Sikh counterparts contribute to this article.
Many thanks -- Raja 22:23, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
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Raja Sahab,
Let me tell you why a Hindu or Sikh Janjua will have a problem identifying with this article. If you are a Janjua, then I am your distant cousin who happens to claim pride in his Hindu/Sikh ancestors in having successfully resisted Islamic onslaught and temptation to convert to Islam when Turkish power was at peak in Punjab.
Raja Saheb, I am related with none of the above groups personally. We were allies of Hindu Janjuas (not Muslims) on equal terms and yet were distinct from them. Personally, I do not regard Muslim Janjuas to be Janjuas at all. But we can agree to disagree on that point. I am not going prior to any era prior to Khilji invasion with proven textual records. But I have no interest in discussing my ancestry here as it useless for the purpose of our discussion. I regret writign about my own personal background but I wrote about my background only because coming from a related Hindu/Sikh Rajput background I could not help being struck by obvious ironies (from Hindu/Sikh perspective) that are part of your narrative. "Janjuas were the most valiant Kshatriyas and yet the first ones to convert to Islam and then serving Babur who committed a genocide on Hindus and destroyed Hindu temples"...yeah right!...take this statement to any Hindu or Sikh website and see how it gets blasted to smithreens. I am surprised being such an intelligent person you have not yet been able to take note of this point :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by History Sleuth ( talk • contribs) 15:47, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
No Hindu or Sikh Janjua worth his salt will be caught taking pride in "valiantly resisting Maharaja Ranjit Singh" or having been a general in Babar's army.
See how Guru Nanak poetically describes the genocide of unarmed people during Babar's invasion:
"Khurasan khasmana kiya Hindustanu daraiya Aapae dosu na deyi karta jamu kari mughlu chadhaiya Aiti maar payi karlande tain ko dardu na ayiya Karta tu sabhna ka soi Je sakta sakte kayu mare taa mani rosu na hoyi Sakta sihu maare paye vagaye khasme sa pursai Ratan vigadi vigoye kuttin muiya saar na koyi..."
"Having lifted Islam to the head, You have engulfed Hindustan in dread.... Such cruelties have they inflicted, and yet Your mercy remains unmoved.... Should the strong attack the strong the heart does not burn. But when the strong crush the helpless, surely the One who was to protect them has to be called to account.... O' Lord, these dogs have destroyed this diamond-like Hindustan, (so great is their terror that) no one asks after those who have been killed, and yet You do not pay heed..."
I copy pasted it from other side. I admit that translation of Khurasan is incorrect but the fact remains that Babar was a detestable invader from Hindu/Sikh standpoint and was involved in the genocide of Hindus and it had offended Guru Nanak to such an extent that he wrote the above verse. Now go and tell a Sikh Janjua that Guru Nanak was wrong about Babar. This is not propaganda above. It is part of Sikh scripture and integral part of cultural and religious experience of Sikh Janjuas. Sorry to say, it is your naivety to consider it propaganda.If you would expect a Sikh or Hindu Janjua to take pride in being Babar's colloborator, you have encroached a major religious and cultural faultline. This is the entire point. Realise that this is not "propaganda" BUT PART OF SIKH SCRIPTURE. No Sikh Janjua can go against it or question it.
“ | Son, this nation Hindustan has different religions. Thank Allah for giving us this kingdom. We should remove all the differences from our heart and do justice to each community according to it's customs. Avoid cow-slaughter to win over the hearts of the people of this land and to incorporate the people in the matters of administration. Do not damage the places of worship and temples which fall in the boundaries of our rule. Evolve a method of ruling whereby all the people of the kingdom are happy with the king and the king is happy with the people. Islam can progress by noble deeds and not by terror.....Keep the people following different customs integrated into a single whole so that no part of the body of this kingdom becomes diseased. | ” |
— Translated from the original will at National Museum, New Delhi [12] |
From Hindu/Sikh Janjua perspective Turkish Muslim rule and invasion was an unmitigated political, moral and cultural disaster. What you as Muslim Janjua claim with pride is a matter of deep shame for Hindu and Sikh Rajputs.
Also, you should have perhaps have section about the major reasons for Janjua and Punjabi Rajput conversion to Islam. You have mentioned them to have converted to Islam just because of Sufism, which is only partially true if not altogether false (Sufis were mostly respectful of Hindu mysticism).
The major reasons for "Rajput conversion to Islam" were:
1) Jizya -
You and I both know Zakat and Jiya were not the same and not every Rajput was a king. Hindu Rajputs were incentivised to convert to Islam by relief from Jizya upon conversion. Hindu Rajputs who did not convert continued to pay Jaziya and were reduced to Dhimmi status.
This is the reason predominantly all well-to-do Rajputs were Muslims in West Punjab and Hindu Rajputs had fallen to the level of Jats and peasants. According to British records, Rajputs and other peasant communities had become indistinguishable in Punjab. Do you want to see a citation from Ibbetson?
The Hindu Rajputs who were still able to do well in Punjab were all in the mountains where Turk armies could not easily penetrate. You are taking an obvious liberty with fact and logic to deny that Jizya and other financial reasons were among the reason for Rajput conversion to Islam. I do not expect you to agree to it because you are a Muslim Rajput but atleast acknowledge it as well-known opinion in an article meant for scholarly consumption. —Preceding unsigned comment added by History Sleuth ( talk • contribs) 16:51, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
2) Lure to retain political positions -
3) Plain cowardice in some cases -
Will provide later. I have many. I don't want to write anything without references. Secondly, stop citing Jawahar Lal Nehru as a scholarly source if you expect to be taken seriously by history scholars. He wrote school boy essays to forge Hindu-Mulsim unity. His intent was not history but politics of the time. It is not an academic grade work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by History Sleuth ( talk • contribs) 16:36, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
If you are familiar with pre-1947 Rajput composition of Punjab, the only Rajputs who were in the commanding position in socio-economic terms were Muslim Rajputs. Hindu Rajputs of Punjab had mostly degenerated in socio-economic sense due to economic and political repression during Muslim rule.
Muslim Rajputs were able to retain the titles of "Tikka" , "Raja" etc by converting out of their ancestor's glorious faith and becoming Turk collaborators but Hindu Rajputs of Punjab remained rebellious and hence lost a lot in economic and social terms during Muslim rule. For this reason, you will find Hindu Punjabi Rajputs to be a lot more subdued lot and the only pride they have is in having suffered degradation of Muslim rule without losing the faith of their ancestors.
Just totally forget that a Hindu/Sikh Rajput would be able to take any pride in "valiantly resisting Ranjit Singh". Ranjit Singh is the greatest hero of Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs.
When you use the word "valiantly" you are interpolating a feeling of pride in it. Another editor with another biased viewpoint could have described it "foolhardily".
Sisodia Rajputs of Mewar had boycotted and excommunicated Hindu Rajputs who had inter-married with Muslim rulers. They were treated with a contempt which is legendary. Let me refer you the conversaton between Prithvi Raj Rathore and Maharana Pratap which give very good insight into authentic Hindu Rajput attitude towards Muslim rulers and their Hindu colloaboratrs:
When the exiles were facing the prospect of actual starvation, Pratap wrote to Akbar indicating his readiness to negotiate a treaty. Pratap's first cousin (his mother's sister's son) Prithviraj Rathore, who was one of Akbar's courtiers, heard of this overture. He is said to have grown despondent and wrote thus to his cousin Pratap:
The hopes of the Hindu rest on the Hindu surya yet the Rana forsakes them. But for Pratap, all would be placed on the same level by Akbar; for our chiefs have lost their valour and our females their honour. Akbar is the broker in the market of our race; he has purchased all but the son of Udai (Singh II of Mewar); he is beyond his price. What true Rajput would part with honour for nauroza [the Persian new year's festival, where Akbar selected women for his pleasure]; yet how many have bartered it away? Will Chittor come to this market ...? Though Patta (an affectionate name for Pratap Singh) has squandered away wealth (on warfare), yet he has preserved this treasure. Despair has driven man to this market, to witness their dishonour: from such infamy the descendant of Hammir (Maharana Hammir) alone has been preserved. The world asks, from where does the concealed aid of Pratap emanate? None but the soul of manliness and his sword.. The broker in the market of men (Akbar) will one day be surpassed; he cannot live forever. Then will our race come to Pratap, for the seed of the Rajput to sow in our desolate lands. To him all look for its preservation, that its purity may again become resplendent. It is as much impossible for me to believe that Pratap has called Akbar his emperor as to see the sun rising in the west. Tell me where do I stand? Shall I use my sword on my neck or shall I continue my proud bearing? Pratap replied to him:
"By my God Eklinga, Pratap would call the emperor Turk alone (the word 'Turk' carries a pejorative flavour in many Indian languages) and the sun would rise in the east. You may continue your proud bearing as long as Pratap's sword dangles on the mughal head. Pratap would be guilty of Sanga's blood, if he was to tolerate Akbar. you would have the better of it, no doubt Prithviraj, in this wordy quarrel."
Thus ended the incipient rapprochement between Pratap and Akbar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maharana_Pratap
This is the real Rajput talking above , Raja Saheb. The standard of Rajput pride and honor was set by Pratap.
I think you need to re-orient the slant of your article if you ever want Hindu and Sikh Janjuas to be able to identify with this article in some way. Take care... HS-- History Sleuth ( talk) 15:05, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
Pandering to a group? Hmmm.... don't worry I am not going to edit the article. Take care. I will talk to you later when I get time.
-- ~Raja~ ( talk) 14:55, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
References
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I am more than a little puzzled. I logged on to see my Sikh history as a janjua but everything I've ever known about us is very different from that written here. All the janjuas of sikh and hindu religion that I know of are maliyars and related castes. I approached my olders and they have said that janjuas are not rajputs and that the muslim janjuas in present Panjab have created themselves as raputs. We have more in common with rains than janjuas or rajputs. All janjuas in india know their caste and are very proud they do not need to invent history. There are castes that have great fighting history but do not need to be promoting themselves as different. 17:51, 18 September 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sadhoo ( talk • contribs)
References
Just curious to know how Muslim Janjuas can claim to be Arjuna's and Krishna's desendants. Spiritually, that ancestry ended as soon Janjuas converted to Islam. Islam calls anything pre-Islamic Jahaliya. Hindus would regard converted Rajputs with equal condescension as Malechhas and not consider them Rajput/Kshatriya anymore.
HS - Arjuna was a disciple of Krishna as well as his cousin. Both shared a common grandfather. Arjuna's mother was Krishna's aunt and Krishna was grand-uncle of Janmajeya , the claimed progenitor of Janjua clan. So you are not without some of Krishna's blood if you are desendants of Arjuna. —Preceding unsigned comment added by History Sleuth ( talk • contribs) 17:47, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
HS - This is where you erring, IMHO. Kshatriya status, and correspondingly Rajput status, was lost as soon as one gave up the faith of Aryan/Vedic ancestors. The spiritual tradition that gave greatness to Arjuna (enough for you to claim descent from him despite being a Muslim) is categorical about this aspect.
It does not recognize "lineal genetic descent" as you claim. The Dharmic tradition based on Laws of Manu and Mahabharta , which Arjuna, being a kshatriya, would have defended by all means, is clear that there is no "lineal genetic descent" and kshatriya status is not vouchsafed by birth and can be lost through violation of spiritual tradition. Conversion to Islam would be one such violation. You are encouraged to read more about Laws of Manu and other sources of vedic traditions.
You are relying on colonial accounts about "martial races" theory which has now been dismissed even by Pakistani army. Indian army got rid of this racist nonsense as soon the British left. Pakistani army realized the folly of this myth after the humiliating 1971 defeat. Read more here:
http://www.defencejournal.com/2000/nov/pak-army.htm
HS- I am glad to have run into a Muslim who knows so much about Mahabharta :-) . It was a fault of Pandavas to have downgraded him. According to Mahabharta, Pandavas were not faultless. Krishna and Yudhisthra gave full respect to Karna and always chided Arjuna for insulting a great warrior like Karna. Karna's situation was the adopted son of a royal charioteer. The dice was totally loaded agianst him . But he was still allowed to rule a kingodm. The town of Karnal is named after him in Haryana. The characters of Mahabharta are not ideal and it pointed out repeatedly as part of the narrative. Mahabharta clarifies that it was written in the period of Dwapara when the religious virtues were deteriorating and hence none of the characters were blameless.
If you have read Mahabharta with any great depth , you would know that Karna was deemed a Kshatriya by Sage Parsurama just by observing how he sacrificed his own comfort for others. Read more about Karna and Parsurama episode.-- History Sleuth ( talk) 18:54, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
Muslim Janjuas do not represent the values of Arjuna and in my humble opinion should refrain from referring to them as their ancestors.
Arjuna would have never aided the like of Babar , Gazni , Khalji, Ghori , etc against fellow Hindu/Aryan kings and declared it with pride the way this wikipedia does. Converting under duress after a defeat to an invading army is hardly a sign of bravery. Collaborating with invaders against fellow kinsmen, which you are not even making an effort to conceal in the article, is not bravery either.
Your values, culture and faith are totally antithetical to that of Prince Arjuna and hence people are going to find it curious why you are still hanging on to his hallowed memory.
HS - Arjuna fought to defend Aryan faith. Again, I must clarify the way the word "Arya" was taught by British was wrong. It is not a racist but a cultural concept. The so-called Aryans that Arjuna fought had all fallen from Aryan ideals. He fought to restore those values in pursuit of Arya Dharma. Kaurvas, their cousins, had taken to evil ways. Imagine disrobing a royal woman in the court! That is why he fought them. Without alignment with Vedic Dharma , Arjuna was a nobody. In Bhagvat Gita it is made clear to him time and again that the war is not for his personal glory but in pursuit of Dharma.
About Raja of Patiala being Abdali collaborator. You make a fair point but you should know that no Sikh ever invokes with pride the name of the Rajas of Patiala. He is not regarded as a Sikh hero. Infact this incident is only used to taunt Sikhs from Patiala. Sikh hero is Ranjit Singh who valourously subdued Afghans and conquered Kashmir and parts of Afghanistan.
Please don't get me wrong. I am not here to insult or downgrade anyone but the irony of the narrative you have presented is too striking.
Perhaps you are not aware that status of Rajput and Kshatriya was not by birth and was lost as soon as one lost that culture that gave meaning to those words. Muslim Janjuas can be considered Rajputs only the most distorted meaning of the term.
Although I must say that I am heartened to learn that Muslim Janjuas have not forgotten their truly great forefathers and maybe there might be a ray of hope that they might come back to the faith of their heroic ancestors.
Respectfully,HS —Preceding unsigned comment added by History Sleuth ( talk • contribs) 05:03, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
References
Raja Sahab, thanks for interesting commentary. I would respond later. But could you provide a credible refrence on Raja Porus being a Janjua warrior? It is interesting you have camoflauged his reference rather well under "Janjua Patriarch" section and I think that you know very well that there is no written record or reference whatsoever about Porus in any of the Indian/Hindu sources . The Greek sources provide no reference whatsoever about whether Porus was a Janjua or related with any other Kshatriya lineage for that matter. Had it not been for the hagiographic accounts of Pseudo-Callisthenes, Indians (also Pakistanis) would not know anything about Porus.
If you are speculating that Porus might have been a Janjua without the support of authentic references, that fair in a sense but you should make it amply clear to your readers that it your opinion or theory but not a proven fact. There are other groups in Punjab who claim Porus as theirs.
Respectfully,
HS
PS - Porus did not lose that battle. Western historians simply cherry-picked those accounts from Pseudo-Callisthenes that were most favorable to Alexander . I think Oliver Stone's "Alexander" sets the record straight.
-- History Sleuth ( talk) 17:30, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
It is controversial because the reference to Porus comes in the following sections, giving readers the impression that Porus was a confirmed Janjua
Ancient Patriarchs of the Janjua Rajput
The Pandoo lineage of Porus would also warrant credible references. I think you should create a separate section for Porus to present your theory. It is not a confirmed fact. Readers will be compliment this article for its objectivity rather than thinking something is being camouflaged. Just my two cents-- History Sleuth ( talk) 18:32, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
I would like to bring your kind notice toward this important point that, Janjua is a clan which contains both Rajput and Jatt, see the proof here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jat_Clans (Janjua is there in the list of Jats)
Second important point is that when Janjua is also Jat, then Choudhry is the title of Jat and Rajputs many Rajputs and Jats use Choudhry as Title, but unfortunately this is not included in the main titles of Janjuas.
I would like that both these historical errors should be fixed to give a true information to the world.
Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.152.41.232 ( talk) 18:34, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
The so-called proof you have provided is very flimsy indeed - the fact remains that the Janjua are widely recognised by the vast majority of the leading authorities on the anthropology of the Punjab, as a tribe of undoubted Rajput pedigree (the British referring to the tribe as the purest Rajputs of the Punjab, no less), so please desist from persisting with this silly assertion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.24.143.159 ( talk) 20:44, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Not a big deal simply go to Google and write "Ch. * Janjua", you will find lot of janjua who use choudhry, more I personally know many, Ch. Muzaffar Khan Janjua (Ex. Chairman PPP- District Sanghar), Ch. Abid Farooq Janjua (Stood for MPA election Sanghar), Ch, Muhammad Shareef Janjua, from Adhi(Janjua) Director PTCL Mandi Bahawal Din, Ch. Hashmat Khan Janjua from Sodhra, Wazirabad, very famous industrialist.
Well when many jats can be the descendant of Janjau (Dhamiyal, Nthayal, Ghumman, etc all are called jats), when Minhas can be the Rajputs and Jats, when Bhatti Can be the Rajputs and Jats, then how can you say Janjua can not be converted into jats, well for your kind information, majority of the jats are descedent of Rajputs.
My objective is not to make Janjua jat but the fact is fact, we are basically from Jhelum and our forefather are the Rajputs. Migrated 1100 years back to different areas of punjab but later they are called jatt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.152.10.250 ( talk) 17:58, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
One thing about which I want to bring your attention, we are discussing that Janjua are rajput or Jat, but wikipedia has made Janjua " Tarkhan", if you don't believe see the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarakh%C4%81na
well, don't waste timing in unnecessary topic, rather go and save our tribe from becoming, Tarkhan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.152.10.250 ( talk) 18:09, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
I think the maintainers of this page firstly need to respect the alerts as help to make the page better and then act on them. Also, the maintainers should apply to some sort of protection from vandalism. Too many people try to claim that many Rajput clans are Jats and that Jat clans are Rajputs. Frankly, it happens allot. -- BhainsRajput ( talk) 20:14, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm not familiar with this subject of the Rajput clans. However, I can tell that the subject is being promoted using peacock terms, i.e. words like "dominant", "celebrated", etc. etc. The aim of this article is not to give all the best examples or opinions of the Janjua Rajputs, but to present a balanced view based on reliable sources. Please read the guidelines at WP:PEACOCK to see how to edit the article to avoid this. Fences and windows ( talk) 00:06, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Janjuas converted to Sufism on the hands of Baba Farid of multan. Although no historical events were recorded, but oral tradition persists. According to oral tradition, the king called Maldev(the ancestor of all janjuas) had to confront his relatives when he accepted Islam. According to some stories that i have personally heard, Maldev had to flee to Potohar region to avoid voilent confrontation with his brothers. And there are some people that say that Janjuas converted to Islam due to fear. They are hopelessly wrong and ignorant. Janjuas never accepted the rule of the sultans of delhi, and emperor Balban even sent an expedition here to crush the Janjuas(who were muslims at that time). Janjuas also never accepted Ibrahim Lodhi's rule even though they were muslims. And another thing, Janjuas are followers of Sufism, which never was spread by forced conversions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.154.21.178 ( talk) 15:37, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Given below is one version Rose's book. However there may be others.
Raja Mal is said to have reigned in the days of Mahmud of Ghazni , and his authority was probably more or less recognised from Rawalpindi to the Jhelum . When Mahmud Invaded India the Janjuas opposed him , were defeated and fled to the Jungles . Mahmud followed them up , and succeeded in capturing Raja Mal himself . The Raja was released on condition that he and his tribe should embrace Islam .
Denzil Ibbetson, Edward MacLagan, H.A. Rose "A Glossary of The Tribes & Casts of The Punjab & North-West Frontier Province", 1911 AD,Published by Asian Educational Services Vol II Page 355
-- 130.101.152.12 ( talk) 19:46, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
There isn't a reference for the above source of Baba Farid's conversion, however, there is a source to confirm that Raja Mal's conversion was due to Sufism too (Jammu-Kashmir-Ladakh by Parvez Dewan, Manas Publications, 2004, p422)-- Revolution51 ( talk) 11:58, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Individuals are being added who appear to have little notability. Can editors more familiar with the subject please remove the entries that appear to promote non-notable individuals. This is not a directory of every Janjua Rajput. Fences and windows ( talk) 18:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
I started laughing when almost everywhere in this page the term 'Jat/Rajput' is used for Janjuas. Here is a fact that Janjuas are known as 'Rajas', which is a term used for Bhatti Rajputs aswell as Chibs of the region. Jats are considered low-born by the Janjuas who are one of the rulling clans of the region. Than I laughed at the Hindhu Propaganda here. Some people wrote Maldev was forced into accepting Islam by Ghori or Ghazni. Thats an evidence-less and baseless statement without any historical backing.
And another thing, to the Hindhus who say Janjuas cowardly accepted Islam: Say that on the face of a Janjua in real life and I bet you will learn a very valuable lesson. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.154.35.225 ( talk) 11:29, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Janjuas of Jehlum became muslim to save the honour of their women and children. After many of the Janjuas had been killed and the rest had been captured by the Ghoris including the Janjua chief and the Janjua women and children. Ghori had put the condition before the Janjua chief that either he becomes muslim along with his tribe or the chief and all the Janjua men will be killed and the women and children will be enslaved. The Janjua chief had no choice. He knew that he and the Janjua men were as good as dead. he was not afraid to die but dying would not save the honour of the women and children. So, in order to save the honour of the women and children the chief made the decision to convert. I think he made the right choice. Anybody would make this choice in such circumstances. Janjuas were wearing sacred hindu threads called janjus.Janjuas took off their janjus and put them in a large pile and burned them after converting. Historylover. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
212.121.200.192 (
talk)
17:24, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Similar incident took place during the time of prophet Mohammed. Battle of Hunain was against the tribe of prophet,s foster mother Halima Sadia. Prophet Mohammed had led this attack personally. most of the tribal men had been killed, some had been captured alive including women and children and the rest had fled away.This tribe was the richest tribe around. After three days the runaway tribal men decided to convert to Islam. They came to the prophet and agreed to convert on the condition that all their men, women, and children should be released and the wealth, property , goats, sheep and camels should be given back to them. Prophet Mohammed agreed to release the men, women, and children but refused to hand over the wealth, property and animals as everything had already been distributed among the muslim soldiers. The tribal men agreed to this condition. This tribe converted in order to save the honour of their women and children. Otherwise the women and children were going to be sold into slavery. Historylover.
Bhatis of Bhatner became muslim to save the honour of their women and children. Bhatner had been attacked twice by muslims and Bhatis had successfully defended their fort. The third time muslims had come prepared for a long siege. There was no food left in the castle and people started to starve. The Bhati chief hung out the white flag of peace. The Bhati chief said that he will not give up the castle but would agree to any other condition for peace. The muslims put two conditions, conversion or matrimonial alliance.The Bhati chief refused to make matrimonial alliance as this would the most dishonourable thing todo but agreed to convert. The Bhati chief sacrificed his faith but saved the honour. Some hindus saved their faith but sacrificed their honour by making matrimonial alliances. (Who was right and who was wrong?. I do not blame anyone. I think they made their decisions according to the difficult circumstances that they were in.By sacrificing the honour of a few they saved the honour of millions of hindu women in general). This is from the 2nd volume, history of the Bhatis in col. James tods "annals and antiquities of Rajasthan". —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
212.121.200.204 (
talk)
15:41, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
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"I have been disappointed in not finding any mention of Mewat during the long reign of Firoz Shah himself, which covers the very period when the mass of the people of Mewat, both Khanzadahs and Meos, are said to have become Musalmans. That these conversions were not unattended with persecution we may gather from the following accounts written by Firoz himself of the way in which he suppressed the idol-worship of the Hindus in three different places...."
Source: Report of a Tour in Eastern Rajputana in 1882-83 By Alexander Cunningham, pp14 —Preceding unsigned comment added by History Sleuth ( talk • contribs) 21:46, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Tomars as part of Meos. Meo of Tungar clans claim descent from Pandavas. Meos are mixtures of Jadons, Tomars (Janjuas), Kachchwahas and aboriginal Meena tribes.
"....In fact nearly one-half of their chief clans, or five pals out of twelve, claim descent from Jadon ancestors. The following list gives the names of their alleged progenitors. — Jadon clans . . I. Chhirkilat. 2. Dalat. 3. Demrot. 4. Nai. 5. Pundelot.
Tomar clans . . 1. Balot. 2. Darwar. 3. Kalesa. 4. Lundavat. 5. Rattawat.
...."
Source: Report of a Tour in Eastern Rajputana in 1882-83 By Alexander Cunningham, pp23
Are Tomars and Janjuas not connected ? Abu Fazl cannot be dismissed that easily.
BTW, I have no interest in linking Janjuas with Yaduvanshis other than purely scholarly interest in studying the failure of intra-Chandravanshi Rajput relations and alliances in their inablity to have formed a common front under a strong Rajput king to fight Turk invaders. The relationship of Kuru and Yadava clans are too old and too well attested in Hindu texts to merit any discussion.
FYI, RSS's head , Rajinder Singh, is perhaps your kinsman. He is a Tomar Rajput. Send him a message and see how he responds regarding your claim of representing Arjuna's lineal and spiritual heritage and being a Muslim Janjua. Just kidding :-)
I will give you son-in-law citation later. I can't locate it at the moment but I am pretty sure I saw that in one of Cunningham's works.
Last point. Guru Nanak was not hostile to Islam but he did not support conversion of Hindus to Islam. The central objectve of Sikhism was to prevent conversions to Islam by emphasizing the superior aspects of Indian spirituality. If Sikh Gurus were at all impressed with Islam, they would have converted themselves but instead they built armies to resist aggressive Islamic proselytization.
Talk later.-- History Sleuth ( talk) 22:11, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Raja Saheb, I must say that despite disagreeing with you I have come to like you. Take full pride in your Janjua ancestry. Someday you will see light again and return to Dharma of your ancestors. I will not edit this article without your permission out of courtesy though I feel greatly tempted to do so to present a Sikh/Hindu perspective of history which you have entirely suppressed in the article. Of course, both of us are biased from each other's standpoint and truth is somewere in the middle of the positions we have taken. I have to confess when I see a Muslim Rajput, my soul cries out. A part of me wants to embrace him but another part of me is bitterly angry at him in having forsaken something that was far greater than what he got in the bargain. I know you won't agree but let us agree to disagree again. Best wishes.-- History Sleuth ( talk) 02:56, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
References
Raja Saheb,
Don't tell people that converted Janjuas were impervious to financial incentives and did not also convert to Islam to escape Jizya:
Here is a reference from Firoze Shah Tughlak's autobiography . See Elliot's Muhammadan Historians, Vol. III, p. 386 which contains the following account (and this is not the only one):
" I encouraged my infidel subjects to embrace the religion of the Prophet, and proclaimed that every one who repeated the creed and became a Musalman should be exempt from the Jezia, or poll tax. Information of this came to the ears of the people, and great numbers of Hindus presented themselves and were admitted to the honour of Islam. Thus they came forward day by day from every quarter, and, adopting the faith, were exonerated from the Jezia, and were favoured with presents and honours."
-- History Sleuth ( talk) 20:14, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, Raja Saheb, if I seem to be raining on your parade again with these citations::-) But you beat me to it. Given below is Cunnhingham's commentary whom you cannot excuse of being a "Hindu extremist".
yes, I misspelt
The following commentary of Cunningham is about the Khanzadas of Mewat who included converted Janjua as well as Jadon Rajputs.
The former took the name of Bahadur Khan and held Sarhata (only 4 miles to the east of Tejara), while the latter took the name of Chajju Khan, and obtained Jhirka. From these two brothers are descended all the families who lay claim to the title of Khanzadah. Why they became Muhammadans has not been recorded. It is a common belief that they changed their religion to save their lives ; and knowing the plundering habits of the Mewatis and their general turbulence, the belief is perhaps well founded. I think, however, that the two brothers may have embraced the Muhammadan religion for the purpose of regaining their estates of Sarhata and Jhirka, which had been annexed to Delhi by Feroz Tughlak.
Source: See "Report of a Tour in Eastern Rajputana in 1882-83 By Alexander Cunningham, pp11, Published by Office of the Superintendent of Government Printing, 1885, Original from Oxford University
" ....the Khanzadahs were chiefly converted Janjuha Rajputs."
Source: Blochmann's Ain-i-Akbari, p. 334-- History Sleuth ( talk) 20:14, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Raja Saheb, thanks for spirited responses but I think Janjua connection with Meos is too well documented to even need references. Janjua king had taken over Mathura because Yaduvanshi king did not have male heir and he gave the kingdom to his Janjua son-in-law. The area around Delhi had once large Hindu Janjua concentration. When Ghazni attacked Mathura, a Janjua king closely related to Yaduvanshi rajputs was in charge. Janjuas and Yaduvanshis of that era were too closely allied and related not to have shared common bloodlines and historical impacts. So Abu Fazl is not off the mark when he comments that Meos have Janjuas in them too. Yaduvanshis and Janjuas of that time and region were too closely related to be entirely distinct from each other. Their mutual alliance and kinship date saveral centuries before the Turk invasion. So you cannot dismiss Abu Fazl that easily. Yes, the conversion under duress argument will apply to Yaduvanshis as well.
I have to run now. Just last comment about Guru Nanak. I did not deliberately provide wrong translation but had done the copy paste in haste. I think you are smart enough to know that the verses holds full relevance and meaning with regard to Sikh perception of Babar, even though Arun Shorie ( a journalist of some note in India) mistranslated the word Khurasan. The mistranslation of Khurasan is a red herring you are using to deny the Sikh perception of invasion of rule of Babar. It is not a propaganda but a living artifact of Sikh religion, something that gets recited in all Sikh gurudwaras almost every day. No Sikh will see any pride in having been Babar's ally. The Patiala Sikhs are taunted to this day for having allied with Abadali.
“ | Allah is the unseen, inscrutable, inaccessible, omnipotent (Qadir) and bounteous (Karim) creator. The entire world is subject to coming and going. The mericful (Rahim) Lord alone is permanent (1st - 64/1/219)....To be called a Muslim is difficult....first he ought to deem sweet the religion of the Lord's devotees....Becoming a true disciple of the faith of the Prophet, let him put aside the illusion of death...therefore is he is merciful to all sentinent beings, O Nanak, then alone shall he be called a Musalman (1st - 141/1/468)....My immaculate Lord (Pak Allah) knows thy condition (5th - 723/2/2360-1).....May I not forget Allah who is my mind, my soul and my very life (5th- 1138/7/3743-4) | ” |
— Direct translations of Guru Granth Sahib [1] |
Yes, there were genuine conversions of faith either way too but that is not the entire picture. Your article makes no mention of Jizya and forced conversons which is rather absurd. From another group's perception Hindu Janjuas had "valiantly" fought islam until the organized might of Islam made them succumb to Turk power and the real Janjua heroes were the ones who resisted Islam. This is another way of looking at it, coming from a Hindu angle (biased of couse). Your narrative goes as if Janjuas woke up peacefully to be Muslim one day after a Nirvana moment. It did not happen that way. The reasons were vert complex and often ver tragic and I think you can afford to do more justice with that theme....cheers...bye for now!
References
The article has extensive info regarding Muslim Janjua Rajputs, because most citable and referenced information available is of them only. If there are any Hindu or Sikh Janjua Rajputs who come across this page and have any information regarding their specific history, please contribute to the article or get in contact with me directly by clicking on my username and I will aid the incorporation of that info into this article for you if you prefer.
It is very important that our Hindu and Sikh counterparts contribute to this article.
Many thanks -- Raja 22:23, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
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Raja Sahab,
Let me tell you why a Hindu or Sikh Janjua will have a problem identifying with this article. If you are a Janjua, then I am your distant cousin who happens to claim pride in his Hindu/Sikh ancestors in having successfully resisted Islamic onslaught and temptation to convert to Islam when Turkish power was at peak in Punjab.
Raja Saheb, I am related with none of the above groups personally. We were allies of Hindu Janjuas (not Muslims) on equal terms and yet were distinct from them. Personally, I do not regard Muslim Janjuas to be Janjuas at all. But we can agree to disagree on that point. I am not going prior to any era prior to Khilji invasion with proven textual records. But I have no interest in discussing my ancestry here as it useless for the purpose of our discussion. I regret writign about my own personal background but I wrote about my background only because coming from a related Hindu/Sikh Rajput background I could not help being struck by obvious ironies (from Hindu/Sikh perspective) that are part of your narrative. "Janjuas were the most valiant Kshatriyas and yet the first ones to convert to Islam and then serving Babur who committed a genocide on Hindus and destroyed Hindu temples"...yeah right!...take this statement to any Hindu or Sikh website and see how it gets blasted to smithreens. I am surprised being such an intelligent person you have not yet been able to take note of this point :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by History Sleuth ( talk • contribs) 15:47, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
No Hindu or Sikh Janjua worth his salt will be caught taking pride in "valiantly resisting Maharaja Ranjit Singh" or having been a general in Babar's army.
See how Guru Nanak poetically describes the genocide of unarmed people during Babar's invasion:
"Khurasan khasmana kiya Hindustanu daraiya Aapae dosu na deyi karta jamu kari mughlu chadhaiya Aiti maar payi karlande tain ko dardu na ayiya Karta tu sabhna ka soi Je sakta sakte kayu mare taa mani rosu na hoyi Sakta sihu maare paye vagaye khasme sa pursai Ratan vigadi vigoye kuttin muiya saar na koyi..."
"Having lifted Islam to the head, You have engulfed Hindustan in dread.... Such cruelties have they inflicted, and yet Your mercy remains unmoved.... Should the strong attack the strong the heart does not burn. But when the strong crush the helpless, surely the One who was to protect them has to be called to account.... O' Lord, these dogs have destroyed this diamond-like Hindustan, (so great is their terror that) no one asks after those who have been killed, and yet You do not pay heed..."
I copy pasted it from other side. I admit that translation of Khurasan is incorrect but the fact remains that Babar was a detestable invader from Hindu/Sikh standpoint and was involved in the genocide of Hindus and it had offended Guru Nanak to such an extent that he wrote the above verse. Now go and tell a Sikh Janjua that Guru Nanak was wrong about Babar. This is not propaganda above. It is part of Sikh scripture and integral part of cultural and religious experience of Sikh Janjuas. Sorry to say, it is your naivety to consider it propaganda.If you would expect a Sikh or Hindu Janjua to take pride in being Babar's colloborator, you have encroached a major religious and cultural faultline. This is the entire point. Realise that this is not "propaganda" BUT PART OF SIKH SCRIPTURE. No Sikh Janjua can go against it or question it.
“ | Son, this nation Hindustan has different religions. Thank Allah for giving us this kingdom. We should remove all the differences from our heart and do justice to each community according to it's customs. Avoid cow-slaughter to win over the hearts of the people of this land and to incorporate the people in the matters of administration. Do not damage the places of worship and temples which fall in the boundaries of our rule. Evolve a method of ruling whereby all the people of the kingdom are happy with the king and the king is happy with the people. Islam can progress by noble deeds and not by terror.....Keep the people following different customs integrated into a single whole so that no part of the body of this kingdom becomes diseased. | ” |
— Translated from the original will at National Museum, New Delhi [12] |
From Hindu/Sikh Janjua perspective Turkish Muslim rule and invasion was an unmitigated political, moral and cultural disaster. What you as Muslim Janjua claim with pride is a matter of deep shame for Hindu and Sikh Rajputs.
Also, you should have perhaps have section about the major reasons for Janjua and Punjabi Rajput conversion to Islam. You have mentioned them to have converted to Islam just because of Sufism, which is only partially true if not altogether false (Sufis were mostly respectful of Hindu mysticism).
The major reasons for "Rajput conversion to Islam" were:
1) Jizya -
You and I both know Zakat and Jiya were not the same and not every Rajput was a king. Hindu Rajputs were incentivised to convert to Islam by relief from Jizya upon conversion. Hindu Rajputs who did not convert continued to pay Jaziya and were reduced to Dhimmi status.
This is the reason predominantly all well-to-do Rajputs were Muslims in West Punjab and Hindu Rajputs had fallen to the level of Jats and peasants. According to British records, Rajputs and other peasant communities had become indistinguishable in Punjab. Do you want to see a citation from Ibbetson?
The Hindu Rajputs who were still able to do well in Punjab were all in the mountains where Turk armies could not easily penetrate. You are taking an obvious liberty with fact and logic to deny that Jizya and other financial reasons were among the reason for Rajput conversion to Islam. I do not expect you to agree to it because you are a Muslim Rajput but atleast acknowledge it as well-known opinion in an article meant for scholarly consumption. —Preceding unsigned comment added by History Sleuth ( talk • contribs) 16:51, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
2) Lure to retain political positions -
3) Plain cowardice in some cases -
Will provide later. I have many. I don't want to write anything without references. Secondly, stop citing Jawahar Lal Nehru as a scholarly source if you expect to be taken seriously by history scholars. He wrote school boy essays to forge Hindu-Mulsim unity. His intent was not history but politics of the time. It is not an academic grade work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by History Sleuth ( talk • contribs) 16:36, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
If you are familiar with pre-1947 Rajput composition of Punjab, the only Rajputs who were in the commanding position in socio-economic terms were Muslim Rajputs. Hindu Rajputs of Punjab had mostly degenerated in socio-economic sense due to economic and political repression during Muslim rule.
Muslim Rajputs were able to retain the titles of "Tikka" , "Raja" etc by converting out of their ancestor's glorious faith and becoming Turk collaborators but Hindu Rajputs of Punjab remained rebellious and hence lost a lot in economic and social terms during Muslim rule. For this reason, you will find Hindu Punjabi Rajputs to be a lot more subdued lot and the only pride they have is in having suffered degradation of Muslim rule without losing the faith of their ancestors.
Just totally forget that a Hindu/Sikh Rajput would be able to take any pride in "valiantly resisting Ranjit Singh". Ranjit Singh is the greatest hero of Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs.
When you use the word "valiantly" you are interpolating a feeling of pride in it. Another editor with another biased viewpoint could have described it "foolhardily".
Sisodia Rajputs of Mewar had boycotted and excommunicated Hindu Rajputs who had inter-married with Muslim rulers. They were treated with a contempt which is legendary. Let me refer you the conversaton between Prithvi Raj Rathore and Maharana Pratap which give very good insight into authentic Hindu Rajput attitude towards Muslim rulers and their Hindu colloaboratrs:
When the exiles were facing the prospect of actual starvation, Pratap wrote to Akbar indicating his readiness to negotiate a treaty. Pratap's first cousin (his mother's sister's son) Prithviraj Rathore, who was one of Akbar's courtiers, heard of this overture. He is said to have grown despondent and wrote thus to his cousin Pratap:
The hopes of the Hindu rest on the Hindu surya yet the Rana forsakes them. But for Pratap, all would be placed on the same level by Akbar; for our chiefs have lost their valour and our females their honour. Akbar is the broker in the market of our race; he has purchased all but the son of Udai (Singh II of Mewar); he is beyond his price. What true Rajput would part with honour for nauroza [the Persian new year's festival, where Akbar selected women for his pleasure]; yet how many have bartered it away? Will Chittor come to this market ...? Though Patta (an affectionate name for Pratap Singh) has squandered away wealth (on warfare), yet he has preserved this treasure. Despair has driven man to this market, to witness their dishonour: from such infamy the descendant of Hammir (Maharana Hammir) alone has been preserved. The world asks, from where does the concealed aid of Pratap emanate? None but the soul of manliness and his sword.. The broker in the market of men (Akbar) will one day be surpassed; he cannot live forever. Then will our race come to Pratap, for the seed of the Rajput to sow in our desolate lands. To him all look for its preservation, that its purity may again become resplendent. It is as much impossible for me to believe that Pratap has called Akbar his emperor as to see the sun rising in the west. Tell me where do I stand? Shall I use my sword on my neck or shall I continue my proud bearing? Pratap replied to him:
"By my God Eklinga, Pratap would call the emperor Turk alone (the word 'Turk' carries a pejorative flavour in many Indian languages) and the sun would rise in the east. You may continue your proud bearing as long as Pratap's sword dangles on the mughal head. Pratap would be guilty of Sanga's blood, if he was to tolerate Akbar. you would have the better of it, no doubt Prithviraj, in this wordy quarrel."
Thus ended the incipient rapprochement between Pratap and Akbar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maharana_Pratap
This is the real Rajput talking above , Raja Saheb. The standard of Rajput pride and honor was set by Pratap.
I think you need to re-orient the slant of your article if you ever want Hindu and Sikh Janjuas to be able to identify with this article in some way. Take care... HS-- History Sleuth ( talk) 15:05, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
Pandering to a group? Hmmm.... don't worry I am not going to edit the article. Take care. I will talk to you later when I get time.
-- ~Raja~ ( talk) 14:55, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
References
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I am more than a little puzzled. I logged on to see my Sikh history as a janjua but everything I've ever known about us is very different from that written here. All the janjuas of sikh and hindu religion that I know of are maliyars and related castes. I approached my olders and they have said that janjuas are not rajputs and that the muslim janjuas in present Panjab have created themselves as raputs. We have more in common with rains than janjuas or rajputs. All janjuas in india know their caste and are very proud they do not need to invent history. There are castes that have great fighting history but do not need to be promoting themselves as different. 17:51, 18 September 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sadhoo ( talk • contribs)
References
Just curious to know how Muslim Janjuas can claim to be Arjuna's and Krishna's desendants. Spiritually, that ancestry ended as soon Janjuas converted to Islam. Islam calls anything pre-Islamic Jahaliya. Hindus would regard converted Rajputs with equal condescension as Malechhas and not consider them Rajput/Kshatriya anymore.
HS - Arjuna was a disciple of Krishna as well as his cousin. Both shared a common grandfather. Arjuna's mother was Krishna's aunt and Krishna was grand-uncle of Janmajeya , the claimed progenitor of Janjua clan. So you are not without some of Krishna's blood if you are desendants of Arjuna. —Preceding unsigned comment added by History Sleuth ( talk • contribs) 17:47, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
HS - This is where you erring, IMHO. Kshatriya status, and correspondingly Rajput status, was lost as soon as one gave up the faith of Aryan/Vedic ancestors. The spiritual tradition that gave greatness to Arjuna (enough for you to claim descent from him despite being a Muslim) is categorical about this aspect.
It does not recognize "lineal genetic descent" as you claim. The Dharmic tradition based on Laws of Manu and Mahabharta , which Arjuna, being a kshatriya, would have defended by all means, is clear that there is no "lineal genetic descent" and kshatriya status is not vouchsafed by birth and can be lost through violation of spiritual tradition. Conversion to Islam would be one such violation. You are encouraged to read more about Laws of Manu and other sources of vedic traditions.
You are relying on colonial accounts about "martial races" theory which has now been dismissed even by Pakistani army. Indian army got rid of this racist nonsense as soon the British left. Pakistani army realized the folly of this myth after the humiliating 1971 defeat. Read more here:
http://www.defencejournal.com/2000/nov/pak-army.htm
HS- I am glad to have run into a Muslim who knows so much about Mahabharta :-) . It was a fault of Pandavas to have downgraded him. According to Mahabharta, Pandavas were not faultless. Krishna and Yudhisthra gave full respect to Karna and always chided Arjuna for insulting a great warrior like Karna. Karna's situation was the adopted son of a royal charioteer. The dice was totally loaded agianst him . But he was still allowed to rule a kingodm. The town of Karnal is named after him in Haryana. The characters of Mahabharta are not ideal and it pointed out repeatedly as part of the narrative. Mahabharta clarifies that it was written in the period of Dwapara when the religious virtues were deteriorating and hence none of the characters were blameless.
If you have read Mahabharta with any great depth , you would know that Karna was deemed a Kshatriya by Sage Parsurama just by observing how he sacrificed his own comfort for others. Read more about Karna and Parsurama episode.-- History Sleuth ( talk) 18:54, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
Muslim Janjuas do not represent the values of Arjuna and in my humble opinion should refrain from referring to them as their ancestors.
Arjuna would have never aided the like of Babar , Gazni , Khalji, Ghori , etc against fellow Hindu/Aryan kings and declared it with pride the way this wikipedia does. Converting under duress after a defeat to an invading army is hardly a sign of bravery. Collaborating with invaders against fellow kinsmen, which you are not even making an effort to conceal in the article, is not bravery either.
Your values, culture and faith are totally antithetical to that of Prince Arjuna and hence people are going to find it curious why you are still hanging on to his hallowed memory.
HS - Arjuna fought to defend Aryan faith. Again, I must clarify the way the word "Arya" was taught by British was wrong. It is not a racist but a cultural concept. The so-called Aryans that Arjuna fought had all fallen from Aryan ideals. He fought to restore those values in pursuit of Arya Dharma. Kaurvas, their cousins, had taken to evil ways. Imagine disrobing a royal woman in the court! That is why he fought them. Without alignment with Vedic Dharma , Arjuna was a nobody. In Bhagvat Gita it is made clear to him time and again that the war is not for his personal glory but in pursuit of Dharma.
About Raja of Patiala being Abdali collaborator. You make a fair point but you should know that no Sikh ever invokes with pride the name of the Rajas of Patiala. He is not regarded as a Sikh hero. Infact this incident is only used to taunt Sikhs from Patiala. Sikh hero is Ranjit Singh who valourously subdued Afghans and conquered Kashmir and parts of Afghanistan.
Please don't get me wrong. I am not here to insult or downgrade anyone but the irony of the narrative you have presented is too striking.
Perhaps you are not aware that status of Rajput and Kshatriya was not by birth and was lost as soon as one lost that culture that gave meaning to those words. Muslim Janjuas can be considered Rajputs only the most distorted meaning of the term.
Although I must say that I am heartened to learn that Muslim Janjuas have not forgotten their truly great forefathers and maybe there might be a ray of hope that they might come back to the faith of their heroic ancestors.
Respectfully,HS —Preceding unsigned comment added by History Sleuth ( talk • contribs) 05:03, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
References
Raja Sahab, thanks for interesting commentary. I would respond later. But could you provide a credible refrence on Raja Porus being a Janjua warrior? It is interesting you have camoflauged his reference rather well under "Janjua Patriarch" section and I think that you know very well that there is no written record or reference whatsoever about Porus in any of the Indian/Hindu sources . The Greek sources provide no reference whatsoever about whether Porus was a Janjua or related with any other Kshatriya lineage for that matter. Had it not been for the hagiographic accounts of Pseudo-Callisthenes, Indians (also Pakistanis) would not know anything about Porus.
If you are speculating that Porus might have been a Janjua without the support of authentic references, that fair in a sense but you should make it amply clear to your readers that it your opinion or theory but not a proven fact. There are other groups in Punjab who claim Porus as theirs.
Respectfully,
HS
PS - Porus did not lose that battle. Western historians simply cherry-picked those accounts from Pseudo-Callisthenes that were most favorable to Alexander . I think Oliver Stone's "Alexander" sets the record straight.
-- History Sleuth ( talk) 17:30, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
It is controversial because the reference to Porus comes in the following sections, giving readers the impression that Porus was a confirmed Janjua
Ancient Patriarchs of the Janjua Rajput
The Pandoo lineage of Porus would also warrant credible references. I think you should create a separate section for Porus to present your theory. It is not a confirmed fact. Readers will be compliment this article for its objectivity rather than thinking something is being camouflaged. Just my two cents-- History Sleuth ( talk) 18:32, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
I would like to bring your kind notice toward this important point that, Janjua is a clan which contains both Rajput and Jatt, see the proof here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jat_Clans (Janjua is there in the list of Jats)
Second important point is that when Janjua is also Jat, then Choudhry is the title of Jat and Rajputs many Rajputs and Jats use Choudhry as Title, but unfortunately this is not included in the main titles of Janjuas.
I would like that both these historical errors should be fixed to give a true information to the world.
Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.152.41.232 ( talk) 18:34, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
The so-called proof you have provided is very flimsy indeed - the fact remains that the Janjua are widely recognised by the vast majority of the leading authorities on the anthropology of the Punjab, as a tribe of undoubted Rajput pedigree (the British referring to the tribe as the purest Rajputs of the Punjab, no less), so please desist from persisting with this silly assertion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.24.143.159 ( talk) 20:44, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Not a big deal simply go to Google and write "Ch. * Janjua", you will find lot of janjua who use choudhry, more I personally know many, Ch. Muzaffar Khan Janjua (Ex. Chairman PPP- District Sanghar), Ch. Abid Farooq Janjua (Stood for MPA election Sanghar), Ch, Muhammad Shareef Janjua, from Adhi(Janjua) Director PTCL Mandi Bahawal Din, Ch. Hashmat Khan Janjua from Sodhra, Wazirabad, very famous industrialist.
Well when many jats can be the descendant of Janjau (Dhamiyal, Nthayal, Ghumman, etc all are called jats), when Minhas can be the Rajputs and Jats, when Bhatti Can be the Rajputs and Jats, then how can you say Janjua can not be converted into jats, well for your kind information, majority of the jats are descedent of Rajputs.
My objective is not to make Janjua jat but the fact is fact, we are basically from Jhelum and our forefather are the Rajputs. Migrated 1100 years back to different areas of punjab but later they are called jatt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.152.10.250 ( talk) 17:58, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
One thing about which I want to bring your attention, we are discussing that Janjua are rajput or Jat, but wikipedia has made Janjua " Tarkhan", if you don't believe see the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarakh%C4%81na
well, don't waste timing in unnecessary topic, rather go and save our tribe from becoming, Tarkhan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.152.10.250 ( talk) 18:09, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
I think the maintainers of this page firstly need to respect the alerts as help to make the page better and then act on them. Also, the maintainers should apply to some sort of protection from vandalism. Too many people try to claim that many Rajput clans are Jats and that Jat clans are Rajputs. Frankly, it happens allot. -- BhainsRajput ( talk) 20:14, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm not familiar with this subject of the Rajput clans. However, I can tell that the subject is being promoted using peacock terms, i.e. words like "dominant", "celebrated", etc. etc. The aim of this article is not to give all the best examples or opinions of the Janjua Rajputs, but to present a balanced view based on reliable sources. Please read the guidelines at WP:PEACOCK to see how to edit the article to avoid this. Fences and windows ( talk) 00:06, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Janjuas converted to Sufism on the hands of Baba Farid of multan. Although no historical events were recorded, but oral tradition persists. According to oral tradition, the king called Maldev(the ancestor of all janjuas) had to confront his relatives when he accepted Islam. According to some stories that i have personally heard, Maldev had to flee to Potohar region to avoid voilent confrontation with his brothers. And there are some people that say that Janjuas converted to Islam due to fear. They are hopelessly wrong and ignorant. Janjuas never accepted the rule of the sultans of delhi, and emperor Balban even sent an expedition here to crush the Janjuas(who were muslims at that time). Janjuas also never accepted Ibrahim Lodhi's rule even though they were muslims. And another thing, Janjuas are followers of Sufism, which never was spread by forced conversions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.154.21.178 ( talk) 15:37, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Given below is one version Rose's book. However there may be others.
Raja Mal is said to have reigned in the days of Mahmud of Ghazni , and his authority was probably more or less recognised from Rawalpindi to the Jhelum . When Mahmud Invaded India the Janjuas opposed him , were defeated and fled to the Jungles . Mahmud followed them up , and succeeded in capturing Raja Mal himself . The Raja was released on condition that he and his tribe should embrace Islam .
Denzil Ibbetson, Edward MacLagan, H.A. Rose "A Glossary of The Tribes & Casts of The Punjab & North-West Frontier Province", 1911 AD,Published by Asian Educational Services Vol II Page 355
-- 130.101.152.12 ( talk) 19:46, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
There isn't a reference for the above source of Baba Farid's conversion, however, there is a source to confirm that Raja Mal's conversion was due to Sufism too (Jammu-Kashmir-Ladakh by Parvez Dewan, Manas Publications, 2004, p422)-- Revolution51 ( talk) 11:58, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Individuals are being added who appear to have little notability. Can editors more familiar with the subject please remove the entries that appear to promote non-notable individuals. This is not a directory of every Janjua Rajput. Fences and windows ( talk) 18:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
I started laughing when almost everywhere in this page the term 'Jat/Rajput' is used for Janjuas. Here is a fact that Janjuas are known as 'Rajas', which is a term used for Bhatti Rajputs aswell as Chibs of the region. Jats are considered low-born by the Janjuas who are one of the rulling clans of the region. Than I laughed at the Hindhu Propaganda here. Some people wrote Maldev was forced into accepting Islam by Ghori or Ghazni. Thats an evidence-less and baseless statement without any historical backing.
And another thing, to the Hindhus who say Janjuas cowardly accepted Islam: Say that on the face of a Janjua in real life and I bet you will learn a very valuable lesson. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.154.35.225 ( talk) 11:29, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Janjuas of Jehlum became muslim to save the honour of their women and children. After many of the Janjuas had been killed and the rest had been captured by the Ghoris including the Janjua chief and the Janjua women and children. Ghori had put the condition before the Janjua chief that either he becomes muslim along with his tribe or the chief and all the Janjua men will be killed and the women and children will be enslaved. The Janjua chief had no choice. He knew that he and the Janjua men were as good as dead. he was not afraid to die but dying would not save the honour of the women and children. So, in order to save the honour of the women and children the chief made the decision to convert. I think he made the right choice. Anybody would make this choice in such circumstances. Janjuas were wearing sacred hindu threads called janjus.Janjuas took off their janjus and put them in a large pile and burned them after converting. Historylover. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
212.121.200.192 (
talk)
17:24, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Similar incident took place during the time of prophet Mohammed. Battle of Hunain was against the tribe of prophet,s foster mother Halima Sadia. Prophet Mohammed had led this attack personally. most of the tribal men had been killed, some had been captured alive including women and children and the rest had fled away.This tribe was the richest tribe around. After three days the runaway tribal men decided to convert to Islam. They came to the prophet and agreed to convert on the condition that all their men, women, and children should be released and the wealth, property , goats, sheep and camels should be given back to them. Prophet Mohammed agreed to release the men, women, and children but refused to hand over the wealth, property and animals as everything had already been distributed among the muslim soldiers. The tribal men agreed to this condition. This tribe converted in order to save the honour of their women and children. Otherwise the women and children were going to be sold into slavery. Historylover.
Bhatis of Bhatner became muslim to save the honour of their women and children. Bhatner had been attacked twice by muslims and Bhatis had successfully defended their fort. The third time muslims had come prepared for a long siege. There was no food left in the castle and people started to starve. The Bhati chief hung out the white flag of peace. The Bhati chief said that he will not give up the castle but would agree to any other condition for peace. The muslims put two conditions, conversion or matrimonial alliance.The Bhati chief refused to make matrimonial alliance as this would the most dishonourable thing todo but agreed to convert. The Bhati chief sacrificed his faith but saved the honour. Some hindus saved their faith but sacrificed their honour by making matrimonial alliances. (Who was right and who was wrong?. I do not blame anyone. I think they made their decisions according to the difficult circumstances that they were in.By sacrificing the honour of a few they saved the honour of millions of hindu women in general). This is from the 2nd volume, history of the Bhatis in col. James tods "annals and antiquities of Rajasthan". —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
212.121.200.204 (
talk)
15:41, 17 September 2010 (UTC)