This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This biographical article uses the pronouns he/him. See this statement. |
How does Wallis identify. There is no mention of this at all. Sirhissofloxley ( talk) 09:04, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
Hey guys- what idiots have been switching pronouns on this page? That practically amounts to homophopic bullying, to try to force someone to identify with non standard pronouns, which imply a stance he has not at all expressed. Sandpiper ( talk) 09:40, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
https://www.jamiewallisbridgend.com/press-releases/follow-up-statement-from-jamie-wallis-mp Quinby ( talk) 11:02, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
What is the justification for wikipedia pressuring a public figure to take a stance by including a statement like this in an article about them? Sandpiper ( talk) 10:08, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
To try to deter repeated pronoun edit wars, I've added this to the article. Only to be here for the next day or so.
AussieWikiDan ( talk) 12:14, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
Not altogether happy about the balance of this article. When I first read it, it looks just like it might have been written by his political opponents highlighting everything he has done wrong. Maybe theres no response to be made, but it comes across very negative, with the only response coming now with his breaking statement saying he has experienced blackmail, rape, and presumably a rather difficult personal life. Sandpiper ( talk) 12:23, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
@Sandpiper that's the thing, they aren't the normal pronouns Cajmo ( talk) 11:42, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
While his own statement said he's trans, it immediately followed it up by saying that it would be more accurate to say that he "want[s] to be", which reads to me like he's saying he is not trans. This article, and a number of other sources, seem to have inferred from his statement that he is trans, and yet he remains a he. At no point has he actually said he's trans as far as I can see, rather that he's suffering from gender dysphoria. Rambo Apocalypse ( talk) 22:13, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
"I’m trans. Or to be more accurate, I want to be."Even if our view is that we should just take Wallis's word for everything, which may be unwise after the judge at his trial said he
"didn't find the defendant credible", his own immediately clarified or corrected statement says that he wants to be trans, not that he is trans. Readers new to this article reading our statement that he's
"the first openly transgender MP"and seeing that he presents as male might conclude that he's biologically female and has transitioned, but there's nothing to suggest this is the case. The claim about him being transgender therefore looks odd, and does not follow from his own statements. It would be better to omit the claim and just quote his words on the subject, and also give relevant details from the car crash, in which according to the BBC article we use as a source he was
"wearing a black leather mini-skirt and high heels"and
"appeared to be wearing make-up, his eyelids were dark, his lips were red, his cheeks were bronzed, and he had red nail polish on his toes". Readers can draw their own conclusions about all this. Beorhtwulf ( talk) 17:48, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
The sources in the article are clear that hundreds of complaints were made, but somebody had edited the article to say 70. I think this is wrong, please keep checking the article for such edits. ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥ ♥ Talk ♥ 20:34, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
I don't have a problem with giving detail, provided that it's sourced, but I wonder where we are going with the "women's clothing" issue. What Wallis was wearing, although relevant to his claim that he wishes to change gender, is not directly relevant to his driving. Wearing women's clothing isn't a reliable indicator of a sexual preference, nor is it something that should be spoken of as if it were a reprehensible thing for a man to do. So I'm a bit doubtful about the merits of including exact details of what he was wearing when he caused the accident. Deb ( talk) 12:37, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
"Transgender MP said he fled because he was wearing women’s clothes and feared he would be assaulted"[1]. I've seen similarly prominent mention of his clothing at the time of the crash in reporting by the Telegraph and the BBC, again because it was relevant and discussed during Wallis's trial. I can't see that we are drawing any inferences about sexual preferences here, nor are we speaking of his clothing choices as reprehensible or indeed attaching any moral significance to them. I hope this provides some reassurance that the clothing issue is both relevant to the case and reflective of how it is covered by reliable sources. Beorhtwulf ( talk) 21:11, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
As per the status quo for other politicians, alongside the fact that "Member of Parliament" in this context is being used after the definite article, there is nothing wrong with the capitalisation of 'Member' or 'Parliament' - especially as Parliament is a proper noun. Having been on a random selection of MPs' Wikipedia profiles, the status quo on this site is that "Member of Parliament" is capitalised.
Additionally, to say that Wallis "served" as the MP for Bridgend again reflects this status quo and it is my assessment that there is nothing wrong or inaccurate about using this term. To change it deviates from the norm on this website. 82.18.142.200 ( talk) 16:29, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This biographical article uses the pronouns he/him. See this statement. |
How does Wallis identify. There is no mention of this at all. Sirhissofloxley ( talk) 09:04, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
Hey guys- what idiots have been switching pronouns on this page? That practically amounts to homophopic bullying, to try to force someone to identify with non standard pronouns, which imply a stance he has not at all expressed. Sandpiper ( talk) 09:40, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
https://www.jamiewallisbridgend.com/press-releases/follow-up-statement-from-jamie-wallis-mp Quinby ( talk) 11:02, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
What is the justification for wikipedia pressuring a public figure to take a stance by including a statement like this in an article about them? Sandpiper ( talk) 10:08, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
To try to deter repeated pronoun edit wars, I've added this to the article. Only to be here for the next day or so.
AussieWikiDan ( talk) 12:14, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
Not altogether happy about the balance of this article. When I first read it, it looks just like it might have been written by his political opponents highlighting everything he has done wrong. Maybe theres no response to be made, but it comes across very negative, with the only response coming now with his breaking statement saying he has experienced blackmail, rape, and presumably a rather difficult personal life. Sandpiper ( talk) 12:23, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
@Sandpiper that's the thing, they aren't the normal pronouns Cajmo ( talk) 11:42, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
While his own statement said he's trans, it immediately followed it up by saying that it would be more accurate to say that he "want[s] to be", which reads to me like he's saying he is not trans. This article, and a number of other sources, seem to have inferred from his statement that he is trans, and yet he remains a he. At no point has he actually said he's trans as far as I can see, rather that he's suffering from gender dysphoria. Rambo Apocalypse ( talk) 22:13, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
"I’m trans. Or to be more accurate, I want to be."Even if our view is that we should just take Wallis's word for everything, which may be unwise after the judge at his trial said he
"didn't find the defendant credible", his own immediately clarified or corrected statement says that he wants to be trans, not that he is trans. Readers new to this article reading our statement that he's
"the first openly transgender MP"and seeing that he presents as male might conclude that he's biologically female and has transitioned, but there's nothing to suggest this is the case. The claim about him being transgender therefore looks odd, and does not follow from his own statements. It would be better to omit the claim and just quote his words on the subject, and also give relevant details from the car crash, in which according to the BBC article we use as a source he was
"wearing a black leather mini-skirt and high heels"and
"appeared to be wearing make-up, his eyelids were dark, his lips were red, his cheeks were bronzed, and he had red nail polish on his toes". Readers can draw their own conclusions about all this. Beorhtwulf ( talk) 17:48, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
The sources in the article are clear that hundreds of complaints were made, but somebody had edited the article to say 70. I think this is wrong, please keep checking the article for such edits. ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥ ♥ Talk ♥ 20:34, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
I don't have a problem with giving detail, provided that it's sourced, but I wonder where we are going with the "women's clothing" issue. What Wallis was wearing, although relevant to his claim that he wishes to change gender, is not directly relevant to his driving. Wearing women's clothing isn't a reliable indicator of a sexual preference, nor is it something that should be spoken of as if it were a reprehensible thing for a man to do. So I'm a bit doubtful about the merits of including exact details of what he was wearing when he caused the accident. Deb ( talk) 12:37, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
"Transgender MP said he fled because he was wearing women’s clothes and feared he would be assaulted"[1]. I've seen similarly prominent mention of his clothing at the time of the crash in reporting by the Telegraph and the BBC, again because it was relevant and discussed during Wallis's trial. I can't see that we are drawing any inferences about sexual preferences here, nor are we speaking of his clothing choices as reprehensible or indeed attaching any moral significance to them. I hope this provides some reassurance that the clothing issue is both relevant to the case and reflective of how it is covered by reliable sources. Beorhtwulf ( talk) 21:11, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
As per the status quo for other politicians, alongside the fact that "Member of Parliament" in this context is being used after the definite article, there is nothing wrong with the capitalisation of 'Member' or 'Parliament' - especially as Parliament is a proper noun. Having been on a random selection of MPs' Wikipedia profiles, the status quo on this site is that "Member of Parliament" is capitalised.
Additionally, to say that Wallis "served" as the MP for Bridgend again reflects this status quo and it is my assessment that there is nothing wrong or inaccurate about using this term. To change it deviates from the norm on this website. 82.18.142.200 ( talk) 16:29, 5 June 2024 (UTC)