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To User:Viajero:
How is linking to placenames named after Saint James wrong? I think the links provide good information. -- Error 02:37, 1 Aug 2003 (UTC)
According to my references (what i've learned at school and sunday mass) the patron of Chile the Blessed Virgin Mary (as Virgen del Carmen o Nuestra Señora del Carmen) instead of Saint James. Saint James could be the patron of Santiago de Chile, but Santiago no es Chile ;-)
If I'am wrong, pls correct me, otherwise I intend to correct the article. Baloo rch 21:25, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
The good new image of Sant'Iago of the Cuzco school of colonial Peru is 18th century. A quite different, more iconic, bejewelled and hieratic 17th century approach to Saint James can be seen in this Cuzco painting: the contrast in styles is self-evident. His wide-brimmed hat is 18th century, too; such fine straw "Panama hats" are still made in the northern part of Peru, today called Ecuador. -- Wetman 08:32, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I never heard that St. James was called 'of Compostela'. Santiago de Compostela is the city in Spain. It is thought to mean 'campus stellae', that is, 'star field', or maybe 'compositum', 'graveyard', and that is clearly referred to a place, not a person. -- Pinzo 04:00, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
Isn't Saint James, or Sant Iago, called "of Compostela" because that's where his shrine is? The city named for the shrine. Cf. Saint Martin of Tours, etc. A help to the reader. -- Wetman 07:58, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
I don't think so, the city is "Santiago de Compostela" but this doesn't change the name of the saint. There is a "Santiago de Chile" also, and you don't call him St. James of Chile!!!. Martin_of_Tours was so called because he was bishop of Tours, but when St. James died Compostela didn't even exist. -- Pinzo 01:25, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
Ok, maybe another exception... Anyway, let's put it simple: According to the Catholic Encyclopedia St. Nicholas of Myra is also called St. Nicholas of Bari, ok; but about St. James the Greater it doesn't give any alternate name. Do you have any reference where he (the saint) is called of Compostela?. Because this is the first and only place where I heard of it. BTW, in the CE he is the Greater not the Great, And that makes sense, since the other St. James, is the Lesser. -- Pinzo 05:14, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
Diego is Spanish for James. Santiago is also a version of San Diego. The comment on the page that it is not the same is incorrect. evrik 19:26, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
"Santiago" is not a shortened version of "San Diego". Diego was/is a Saint in his own right. Interestingly, Diego was at one time a varient of Santiago, see http://www.sandiegohistory.org/journal/83fall/sandiego.htm but they are two different saints entirely.
Hey, bud, no one is saying the saints were the SAME, the NAMES have the same origin.
Saint Didacus was named that AFTER his death and beatification. Didacus was never a name in its own right before a Latin name was invented for the Saint. Didacus doesn't exist in any other Romance name.
Here is how the Latin name for St. James became Diego in Spanish or Tiago in Portuguese. Sanctus Jacobus Santo Iago (K-sound often became a G-sound) Santiago. THEN we lose the SAN because in modern Spanish the title Saint for males became San (see San Francisco, San Antonio) Tiago (still a name in Portuguese) Diago Diego, Diego.
Please let's kill this Didacus myth. Arthurian Legend 01:23, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
How can someone NO LONGER have the same origin? That doesn't change. Diego still means James because of Santiago. Think of the Portuguese cognate, Tiago. It's the same name, bud. Arthurian Legend 01:25, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Is there a general preference for wither of these two images?
In Spain, one would only recognise the sword-ended cross as that of St. James. The other one has nothing to do with it. The idea behind it was "¡Santiago y cierra España!"- a battle-cry used in the Reconquest. St. James is usually depicted as leading the Cristian armies into battle, hence the sword.-- Guille 08:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Could someone more able than me please change the cross on the page for the red sword-shaped one on the discussion page? Or is it only the Spanish that recognise that one as the cross of Santiago? Guille 00:19, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
(but of course the caption texts are no arguments) Arnoutf 21:02, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
The one in the middle is a "Croix fleury with a sharpened foot". The other two are crosses of Saint James. There is some room for variation and artistic licence in heraldry.
A serious source, Jhr. J.L.M.Graafland and the famous heraldic artist A.Stalins depicted yet another Cross of Saint James. Robert Prummel 22:31, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Note that Evrik has been changing the cross proposed by him on April 13th 2007, well after this discussion started. So everything before April 13 has been referring to this version of that image. The version before april 13 had some kind of tassles, where now it suddenly has the fleur de lis endings. So I think the discussion is from now on going to be limited to the 'fitch' or the 'sword blade' shape of the bottom end of the cross. Arnoutf 18:02, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Who were the three again?-- evrik ( talk) 23:01, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Removed from the main article for discussion
I decided to remove the WikiLink to Santiago in that particular spot. The only other "Santiago" that needs to be linked to in this article is Santiago de Compostela; Santiago itself only contains a little blurb about this article before redirecting back here, and anyone who uses that particular WL will already have learned it all from this article. SingCal 03:37, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
How is he the Patron Saint of the United States? 67.188.172.165 00:04, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
James the great is patron saint of about thirty nine different things —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.207.77.6 ( talk) 14:39, 9 January 2007 (UTC).
With a certain level of surprise a learned this article was suddenly renamed without any discussion. Of course WikiPolicy is to be bold; but I think this is a bit too bold. At least provide a good edit summary, and usefull explanation why it was deemed useful/necesary to rename this article. Arnoutf 22:01, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I've generally heard him referred to as "James, son of Zebedee". ElinorD 22:44, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I think the article is in serious need of a good introduction. I propose to make a setup soon, please feel free to comment. Arnoutf 00:03, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
While the introduction now duly mentions the biblical James, the article proper does not. This is weird. The introduction should be a summary. I suggest we start the article proper with a section on the historical James, before we go on with the Spain section. Arnoutf 10:23, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Other Biblical saints have their birth names and then the two most influential versions in Indo-Europeans languages; Greek and Latin. I know that Saint James is Sanctus Jacobus in Latin, can we add the other ones? Arthurian Legend 01:20, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Hagios Iakovos in Greek. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.10.110.108 ( talk) 06:15, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
Just reading about the morphing of the name to (eventually) San Diego and others. I realize that it would be a very short article but I'm wondering if it shouldn't be separate. A bit much for here anyway. But very interesting. The city of San Diego could link to it (for example) and others. Student7 ( talk) 14:19, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Is it known why he got a scallop attributed to him? Hexmaster ( talk) 12:10, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
Why is there almost no mention except for the lead of what he actually did according to the bible, it seems that 90% of this article are traditions that the catholics have added to him and almost none about his story according to the gospels and early acts 216.121.228.48 ( talk) 02:53, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Since there is so much confusion of similarly-named characters in the New Testament, is it even clear that the reference in the Book of Acts to a James being put to death actually means the apostle? If it is, some source should be given in support. -- 77.189.70.109 ( talk) 20:31, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
There is mention in the section on St. James in Kongo of Kongo traditions having gone to the new world, and to Haiti in particular. Saint James (Sen Jak) is extremely popular in Haiti. (see, e.g., Cosentino, Donald J. [2006] "It's All for You, Sen Jak" in *Invisible Powers: Vodou in Haitian Life and Culture* ed. Michel, Claudine and Patrick Bellegarde-Smith. New York: Palgrave-MacMillan.) Vodou practitioners often identify images of Saint James with the Vodou divinity Ogoun. I imagine some information about his role in Haiti might not go amiss on the main St. James page, though perhaps just linking to the Wiki page on Ogoun is enough? This is my first time in the Wikipedia chat world, so I'm interested to know what those of you more experienced in editing, and who take regular care of this page might think. Zloop ( talk) 18:26, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
The mother of James son of Zebedee is not Salome, but Mary Salome. I think it would be necessary to have a look to the references about this articule. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.32.19.186 ( talk) 11:16, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm a little concerned about the statement "died 44 AD". The date of death is based on legend and really can't be cited as fact. That needs to be indicated right at the start when the date is first mentioned. Nobody knows the exact dates of early Christians. -- Doric Loon ( talk) 21:53, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Section: In the New Testament blasphemes – most specifically the first three paragraphs – against my skeptical mind the following ways:
Rursus dixit. ( mbork3!) 06:43, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
According to the article on Acoma Pueblo their patron saint is Saint Stephen, not James, son of Zebedee. אביהו ( talk) 11:02, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
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The text currently reads: Some 237,886 pilgrims registered in 2014 as having completed the final 100 km walk (200 km by bicycle) to Santiago to qualify for a Compostela. Apparently "A Compostela" is an award given fro completing the last 100 km of the pilgrimage, but that's only implied by the text. Needs a bit more explanation. TwelveGreat ( talk) 12:41, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
Moved. See general agreement below to rename this article, so this request is granted. Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy Publishing! ( nac by page mover) P. I. Ellsworth, ed. put'r there 15:44, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
James, son of Zebedee be
renamed and moved to
James the Great.
The discussion has been closed, and the result is moved – please see closer's comment for details. Links:
current log •
target log |
James, son of Zebedee → James the Great – 1-this makes a contrast to James the Less. 2-this is a more common name for him ( WP:COMMONNAME). 3-not many people search for “James, son of Zebedee“, but many people search for “James the Great“ in Google. 4- this name is more appropriate for WP:JR/SR. Pseudo-Dionysius the areopagite ( talk) 03:33, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
I'm unsure how to do this but as I was looking at the list of churches in England called after St James, I saw that my church is not listed. If someone could do that, I would be grateful. It's St James Church, Stretham, Cambridgeshire. Thank you for your time. Stay safe. Skippycat12 Skippycat12 ( talk) 14:24, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
James the Great article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on July 25, 2004, July 25, 2005, July 25, 2006, July 25, 2007, and July 25, 2020. |
To User:Viajero:
How is linking to placenames named after Saint James wrong? I think the links provide good information. -- Error 02:37, 1 Aug 2003 (UTC)
According to my references (what i've learned at school and sunday mass) the patron of Chile the Blessed Virgin Mary (as Virgen del Carmen o Nuestra Señora del Carmen) instead of Saint James. Saint James could be the patron of Santiago de Chile, but Santiago no es Chile ;-)
If I'am wrong, pls correct me, otherwise I intend to correct the article. Baloo rch 21:25, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
The good new image of Sant'Iago of the Cuzco school of colonial Peru is 18th century. A quite different, more iconic, bejewelled and hieratic 17th century approach to Saint James can be seen in this Cuzco painting: the contrast in styles is self-evident. His wide-brimmed hat is 18th century, too; such fine straw "Panama hats" are still made in the northern part of Peru, today called Ecuador. -- Wetman 08:32, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I never heard that St. James was called 'of Compostela'. Santiago de Compostela is the city in Spain. It is thought to mean 'campus stellae', that is, 'star field', or maybe 'compositum', 'graveyard', and that is clearly referred to a place, not a person. -- Pinzo 04:00, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
Isn't Saint James, or Sant Iago, called "of Compostela" because that's where his shrine is? The city named for the shrine. Cf. Saint Martin of Tours, etc. A help to the reader. -- Wetman 07:58, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
I don't think so, the city is "Santiago de Compostela" but this doesn't change the name of the saint. There is a "Santiago de Chile" also, and you don't call him St. James of Chile!!!. Martin_of_Tours was so called because he was bishop of Tours, but when St. James died Compostela didn't even exist. -- Pinzo 01:25, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
Ok, maybe another exception... Anyway, let's put it simple: According to the Catholic Encyclopedia St. Nicholas of Myra is also called St. Nicholas of Bari, ok; but about St. James the Greater it doesn't give any alternate name. Do you have any reference where he (the saint) is called of Compostela?. Because this is the first and only place where I heard of it. BTW, in the CE he is the Greater not the Great, And that makes sense, since the other St. James, is the Lesser. -- Pinzo 05:14, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
Diego is Spanish for James. Santiago is also a version of San Diego. The comment on the page that it is not the same is incorrect. evrik 19:26, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
"Santiago" is not a shortened version of "San Diego". Diego was/is a Saint in his own right. Interestingly, Diego was at one time a varient of Santiago, see http://www.sandiegohistory.org/journal/83fall/sandiego.htm but they are two different saints entirely.
Hey, bud, no one is saying the saints were the SAME, the NAMES have the same origin.
Saint Didacus was named that AFTER his death and beatification. Didacus was never a name in its own right before a Latin name was invented for the Saint. Didacus doesn't exist in any other Romance name.
Here is how the Latin name for St. James became Diego in Spanish or Tiago in Portuguese. Sanctus Jacobus Santo Iago (K-sound often became a G-sound) Santiago. THEN we lose the SAN because in modern Spanish the title Saint for males became San (see San Francisco, San Antonio) Tiago (still a name in Portuguese) Diago Diego, Diego.
Please let's kill this Didacus myth. Arthurian Legend 01:23, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
How can someone NO LONGER have the same origin? That doesn't change. Diego still means James because of Santiago. Think of the Portuguese cognate, Tiago. It's the same name, bud. Arthurian Legend 01:25, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Is there a general preference for wither of these two images?
In Spain, one would only recognise the sword-ended cross as that of St. James. The other one has nothing to do with it. The idea behind it was "¡Santiago y cierra España!"- a battle-cry used in the Reconquest. St. James is usually depicted as leading the Cristian armies into battle, hence the sword.-- Guille 08:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Could someone more able than me please change the cross on the page for the red sword-shaped one on the discussion page? Or is it only the Spanish that recognise that one as the cross of Santiago? Guille 00:19, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
(but of course the caption texts are no arguments) Arnoutf 21:02, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
The one in the middle is a "Croix fleury with a sharpened foot". The other two are crosses of Saint James. There is some room for variation and artistic licence in heraldry.
A serious source, Jhr. J.L.M.Graafland and the famous heraldic artist A.Stalins depicted yet another Cross of Saint James. Robert Prummel 22:31, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Note that Evrik has been changing the cross proposed by him on April 13th 2007, well after this discussion started. So everything before April 13 has been referring to this version of that image. The version before april 13 had some kind of tassles, where now it suddenly has the fleur de lis endings. So I think the discussion is from now on going to be limited to the 'fitch' or the 'sword blade' shape of the bottom end of the cross. Arnoutf 18:02, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Who were the three again?-- evrik ( talk) 23:01, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Removed from the main article for discussion
I decided to remove the WikiLink to Santiago in that particular spot. The only other "Santiago" that needs to be linked to in this article is Santiago de Compostela; Santiago itself only contains a little blurb about this article before redirecting back here, and anyone who uses that particular WL will already have learned it all from this article. SingCal 03:37, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
How is he the Patron Saint of the United States? 67.188.172.165 00:04, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
James the great is patron saint of about thirty nine different things —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.207.77.6 ( talk) 14:39, 9 January 2007 (UTC).
With a certain level of surprise a learned this article was suddenly renamed without any discussion. Of course WikiPolicy is to be bold; but I think this is a bit too bold. At least provide a good edit summary, and usefull explanation why it was deemed useful/necesary to rename this article. Arnoutf 22:01, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I've generally heard him referred to as "James, son of Zebedee". ElinorD 22:44, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I think the article is in serious need of a good introduction. I propose to make a setup soon, please feel free to comment. Arnoutf 00:03, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
While the introduction now duly mentions the biblical James, the article proper does not. This is weird. The introduction should be a summary. I suggest we start the article proper with a section on the historical James, before we go on with the Spain section. Arnoutf 10:23, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Other Biblical saints have their birth names and then the two most influential versions in Indo-Europeans languages; Greek and Latin. I know that Saint James is Sanctus Jacobus in Latin, can we add the other ones? Arthurian Legend 01:20, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Hagios Iakovos in Greek. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.10.110.108 ( talk) 06:15, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
Just reading about the morphing of the name to (eventually) San Diego and others. I realize that it would be a very short article but I'm wondering if it shouldn't be separate. A bit much for here anyway. But very interesting. The city of San Diego could link to it (for example) and others. Student7 ( talk) 14:19, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Is it known why he got a scallop attributed to him? Hexmaster ( talk) 12:10, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
Why is there almost no mention except for the lead of what he actually did according to the bible, it seems that 90% of this article are traditions that the catholics have added to him and almost none about his story according to the gospels and early acts 216.121.228.48 ( talk) 02:53, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Since there is so much confusion of similarly-named characters in the New Testament, is it even clear that the reference in the Book of Acts to a James being put to death actually means the apostle? If it is, some source should be given in support. -- 77.189.70.109 ( talk) 20:31, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
There is mention in the section on St. James in Kongo of Kongo traditions having gone to the new world, and to Haiti in particular. Saint James (Sen Jak) is extremely popular in Haiti. (see, e.g., Cosentino, Donald J. [2006] "It's All for You, Sen Jak" in *Invisible Powers: Vodou in Haitian Life and Culture* ed. Michel, Claudine and Patrick Bellegarde-Smith. New York: Palgrave-MacMillan.) Vodou practitioners often identify images of Saint James with the Vodou divinity Ogoun. I imagine some information about his role in Haiti might not go amiss on the main St. James page, though perhaps just linking to the Wiki page on Ogoun is enough? This is my first time in the Wikipedia chat world, so I'm interested to know what those of you more experienced in editing, and who take regular care of this page might think. Zloop ( talk) 18:26, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
The mother of James son of Zebedee is not Salome, but Mary Salome. I think it would be necessary to have a look to the references about this articule. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.32.19.186 ( talk) 11:16, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm a little concerned about the statement "died 44 AD". The date of death is based on legend and really can't be cited as fact. That needs to be indicated right at the start when the date is first mentioned. Nobody knows the exact dates of early Christians. -- Doric Loon ( talk) 21:53, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Section: In the New Testament blasphemes – most specifically the first three paragraphs – against my skeptical mind the following ways:
Rursus dixit. ( mbork3!) 06:43, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
According to the article on Acoma Pueblo their patron saint is Saint Stephen, not James, son of Zebedee. אביהו ( talk) 11:02, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
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The text currently reads: Some 237,886 pilgrims registered in 2014 as having completed the final 100 km walk (200 km by bicycle) to Santiago to qualify for a Compostela. Apparently "A Compostela" is an award given fro completing the last 100 km of the pilgrimage, but that's only implied by the text. Needs a bit more explanation. TwelveGreat ( talk) 12:41, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
Moved. See general agreement below to rename this article, so this request is granted. Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy Publishing! ( nac by page mover) P. I. Ellsworth, ed. put'r there 15:44, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
James, son of Zebedee be
renamed and moved to
James the Great.
The discussion has been closed, and the result is moved – please see closer's comment for details. Links:
current log •
target log |
James, son of Zebedee → James the Great – 1-this makes a contrast to James the Less. 2-this is a more common name for him ( WP:COMMONNAME). 3-not many people search for “James, son of Zebedee“, but many people search for “James the Great“ in Google. 4- this name is more appropriate for WP:JR/SR. Pseudo-Dionysius the areopagite ( talk) 03:33, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
I'm unsure how to do this but as I was looking at the list of churches in England called after St James, I saw that my church is not listed. If someone could do that, I would be grateful. It's St James Church, Stretham, Cambridgeshire. Thank you for your time. Stay safe. Skippycat12 Skippycat12 ( talk) 14:24, 4 August 2021 (UTC)