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Only the initial and basic skeleton, so far, having just found out that he had passed away. More is coming, as well as references. Since his homepage at www.aci.net/kalliste is now gone, a lot of his writings are now only available via Google and the Wayback archive. If anyone has a more substantial collection of JOG's writings, info about that would be beneficial not only for this article but to many of his fans. XJDR ( talk) 14:33, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Anyone got a picture of JOG that can be used here? There was a decent image at http://www.aci.net/kalliste/corp_risk_mgm.jpg but it's gone now, with the rest of the contents... ( XJDR ( talk) 15:37, 26 May 2008 (UTC))
I will help with the rest of the article, have extensive archives. Please bear with me. 123privacy ( talk) 04:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
My thought is that the section about Chaos... is to summarize his use of his homepage, both as a collection of news and views, but most definitely as a place to hold his own writings. Among all the many other good texts, the unfinished series about fractals and financial markets is a real gem, well worthy of preservation and further spread. XJDR ( talk) 05:36, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Note to any other prospective editor: I still have the section about Chaos to write, but as for the rest of the article I consider myself essentially done, at least for now. I have more or less reached the goal I set up for myself. I'm sure there are some 't' or another having its dot missing, some language to tweak/add/delete as well as additional references to add, but I will keep away from the other subsections for at least a week. Becoming blind to ones own text is way too easy. Fresh eyes see clearer. If nothing has happened to the article when I have added the 'Chaos' section I intend to remove the 'Under Construction' tag and declare it all done. XJDR ( talk) 21:15, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm done. For now. OK, I have not assigned any Categories to the article, but that will happen soon, I'm sure. Should anyone want to give me comments in private, just send an email via the Wikipedia email system. Just go to my user page. I do not check such emails daily, but I will respond, even to messages containing nothing but an email address and a PGP key. XJDR ( talk) 09:35, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
OK, I am tweaking links and references even though not a week has passed. Thanks for pointers. XJDR ( talk) 17:05, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Gentlemen, would you kindly cite some kind of documentary evidence that Orlin is dead. Slightly skeptical ( talk) 17:20, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Skeptical, you are either seriously Google-impaired or actually kidding, hinting that the death notice on aci.net/kalliste was a fake, or that Orlin's brother Crockett did not notice the mention of Orlin's death while he participated in editing this wiki article (check the wiki edit log)? Or perhaps that Crockett lied when he wrote a post about Orlin's death on the net? chasegalleryconnect.org/FNC_C/Data/People/Individuals/J. Orlin Grabbe.html Or members of his (former) church? [1] I got informed of the death directly from his friends and family. You could of course get in touch with the U.S. embassy in San Jose, Costa Rica if that is not good enough for you. They don't publish death notices on the net, as far as I know.
Or perhaps, more likely, you are connected to that shady German speaking group (I will not encourage them by giving a URL) that threatened repeatedly on the net to have Orlin maimed/murdered? If you think that such a threat would be taken seriously by anyone, especially by Orlin himself and to be a reason for such a delayed and elaborate hoax then you must definitely be kidding. Yourself. As an attempt at humour it is as dead as Orlin is. XJDR ( talk) 22:22, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Cause of death? Beaten to death is the Tico way. Heart attack smells like OGA. Tes5ymjuog878f6 ( talk) 00:10, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
The previously uploaded picture of Orlin Grabbe has been removed. I assume it could be due to copyright issues. Even though I did not upload the image file, I did recommend it as a good likeness that captured the spirit of Orlin Grabbe and matched the tone of the article. It is a good image regarding its composition as well. I will get in touch with Risk Management Magazine to see if any copyright issues can be resolved that way. That might take some time... XJDR ( talk) 13:37, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Explicit official approval to use the current image has been given by Farid A. Naib, co-president of FX Systems Inc. when the picture was taken, now CEO of GL Trade Capital Markets Solutions. ( XJDR ( talk) 21:34, 1 July 2008 (UTC))
On December 6, due to the lack of citations, and etceteras, I found it necessary to replace the {{underconstruction}} banner upon James Orlin Grabbe. Within a day or two, I will request that the article be returned to XJDR's Userspace (proposed url: XJDR/James Orlin Grabbe) in order for XJDR to address the numerous issues cited to date. I am open to discussion (below) on this issue. My intention should in no way be misinterpreted as a value judgment on anything other than the need to address the various issues cited to date regarding referencing and "voice" (biased tone). Note: In the course of editing the "edit box", it occurred to me that XJDR used a word-processing text-editor which was incompatible with the Wikipedia text-editor. This incompatibility probably is the cause of the "dead links"; however I do not have time to pursue the matter. ThsQ ( talk) 15:06, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
ThsQ, I noticed in the "Death" section above that you expressed
specific opinions about some of Orlin's investigative writings,
(teeter-totter on the fine line between fact and fantasy).
I personally do not care if what he wrote is true or not,
and I did explicitly try to keep such direct evaluations out of the text.
I fail to see any reason for adding more about those items to
the article than what is there already. It states that he
wrote such articles, that they were noticed, as well as being
countered by some as flaky conspiracy fantasies.
In my opinion that is enough for Wikipedia, since it should
not be used as a platform for making value judgments such as
you did above. If some, you included, have additional problems
or agendas regarding Orlin's writings then there are blogs and
the rest of the web to use for such discussions.
Wikipedia is not the place.
I have been informed that his family have made arrangements with archivists for safe handling and preservation of the very voluminous research and background material Orlin had collected for each article, just in case it would "get lost" or "accidentally destroyed". It is my understanding that serious (and vetted) researchers are planned to be given access to peruse those archives. As for me; I'm not interested enough, but I do maintain the stance that main stream media and the like should be presumed guilty and not trustworthy until explicitly proven innocent. Caveat lector, indeed. XJDR ( talk) 23:56, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
This is where notes to updates to the set of links and references will be made. Some requests added recently will be deleted/ignored, with appropriate comments here. XJDR ( talk) 20:18, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Intro: Bill StClair found a good death notice and added it. If fact, that link could also be used in later sections as a reference for the PhD link request, the student magazine editor link request and the claim of wide spread of "Memories of Pasadena". This section is now all handled. XJDR ( talk) 13:53, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Early Life: Link to description of education as a youth added. The request for links regarding the professorships of the brothers was clearly spurious, since their names were already linked to their respective universities. Modified text to make it even clearer. This section is now all handled. XJDR ( talk) 13:53, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Ambassador College: Referring to the obituary included by Bill StClair handles previous link requests, even though a ready-made Google search for "Memories of Pasadena"+grabbe could be added as well. I consider this section now to be all handled. XJDR ( talk) 14:42, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Berkeley, Harvard and Wharton: All reference requests handled, even though there is a suggestion to "google" for the book International Financial Markets since making a meaningful selection of universities that have that book as course material is a somewhat futile excercise IMHO. Section done, I think. XJDR ( talk) 17:00, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
XJDR, By the time you read what I am writing right now, you will have seen probably how I reacted to the subsection: "The End..." etcetera. Your point of view is extremely heavy in this section, lopsided. Words such as "highly" this and "widely" that need to be supported by third-party, unbiased references. It is only by the time that Leslie Stahl's opinion is presented (somewhat) that we readers encounter a balance. Yet then, you suggest that Stahl's opinion is (was) "received with some amusement". Yet you do not cite a critical third-party criticism; you agree with the critics (i.e. your choice of the word amusement is a loaded expression): Salon.com is a blog (according to Wikipedia's guidelines) blogs are not acceptable as reliable sources; Don Cox (from the Reno Gazette) does carry some weight, however a google search of his offerings suggest that he has had only a 100 or so publications so he falls into a novice opinion category much like the blog writer above; and Grabbe's opinion can hardly be said to be unbiased. After thrashing Stahl's opinion, I believe you need some heavier ammunition than what you cite. The entire subsection ("The End...") needs to be addressed by you from a more balanced point of view. I tried to copy-edit as much of the viewpoint writing as I could, and I believe you may benefit by analyizing my opinion rather than resisting it. ThsQ ( talk) 16:41, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 ( talk) 01:45, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
As orlingrabbe.com is down consequent to his passing, I have updated some of the dead links to point to an archive on my site. Kent Heiner ( talk) 03:11, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
James Orlin Grabbe. Please take a moment to review
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 02:29, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
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![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Only the initial and basic skeleton, so far, having just found out that he had passed away. More is coming, as well as references. Since his homepage at www.aci.net/kalliste is now gone, a lot of his writings are now only available via Google and the Wayback archive. If anyone has a more substantial collection of JOG's writings, info about that would be beneficial not only for this article but to many of his fans. XJDR ( talk) 14:33, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Anyone got a picture of JOG that can be used here? There was a decent image at http://www.aci.net/kalliste/corp_risk_mgm.jpg but it's gone now, with the rest of the contents... ( XJDR ( talk) 15:37, 26 May 2008 (UTC))
I will help with the rest of the article, have extensive archives. Please bear with me. 123privacy ( talk) 04:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
My thought is that the section about Chaos... is to summarize his use of his homepage, both as a collection of news and views, but most definitely as a place to hold his own writings. Among all the many other good texts, the unfinished series about fractals and financial markets is a real gem, well worthy of preservation and further spread. XJDR ( talk) 05:36, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Note to any other prospective editor: I still have the section about Chaos to write, but as for the rest of the article I consider myself essentially done, at least for now. I have more or less reached the goal I set up for myself. I'm sure there are some 't' or another having its dot missing, some language to tweak/add/delete as well as additional references to add, but I will keep away from the other subsections for at least a week. Becoming blind to ones own text is way too easy. Fresh eyes see clearer. If nothing has happened to the article when I have added the 'Chaos' section I intend to remove the 'Under Construction' tag and declare it all done. XJDR ( talk) 21:15, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm done. For now. OK, I have not assigned any Categories to the article, but that will happen soon, I'm sure. Should anyone want to give me comments in private, just send an email via the Wikipedia email system. Just go to my user page. I do not check such emails daily, but I will respond, even to messages containing nothing but an email address and a PGP key. XJDR ( talk) 09:35, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
OK, I am tweaking links and references even though not a week has passed. Thanks for pointers. XJDR ( talk) 17:05, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Gentlemen, would you kindly cite some kind of documentary evidence that Orlin is dead. Slightly skeptical ( talk) 17:20, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Skeptical, you are either seriously Google-impaired or actually kidding, hinting that the death notice on aci.net/kalliste was a fake, or that Orlin's brother Crockett did not notice the mention of Orlin's death while he participated in editing this wiki article (check the wiki edit log)? Or perhaps that Crockett lied when he wrote a post about Orlin's death on the net? chasegalleryconnect.org/FNC_C/Data/People/Individuals/J. Orlin Grabbe.html Or members of his (former) church? [1] I got informed of the death directly from his friends and family. You could of course get in touch with the U.S. embassy in San Jose, Costa Rica if that is not good enough for you. They don't publish death notices on the net, as far as I know.
Or perhaps, more likely, you are connected to that shady German speaking group (I will not encourage them by giving a URL) that threatened repeatedly on the net to have Orlin maimed/murdered? If you think that such a threat would be taken seriously by anyone, especially by Orlin himself and to be a reason for such a delayed and elaborate hoax then you must definitely be kidding. Yourself. As an attempt at humour it is as dead as Orlin is. XJDR ( talk) 22:22, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Cause of death? Beaten to death is the Tico way. Heart attack smells like OGA. Tes5ymjuog878f6 ( talk) 00:10, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
The previously uploaded picture of Orlin Grabbe has been removed. I assume it could be due to copyright issues. Even though I did not upload the image file, I did recommend it as a good likeness that captured the spirit of Orlin Grabbe and matched the tone of the article. It is a good image regarding its composition as well. I will get in touch with Risk Management Magazine to see if any copyright issues can be resolved that way. That might take some time... XJDR ( talk) 13:37, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Explicit official approval to use the current image has been given by Farid A. Naib, co-president of FX Systems Inc. when the picture was taken, now CEO of GL Trade Capital Markets Solutions. ( XJDR ( talk) 21:34, 1 July 2008 (UTC))
On December 6, due to the lack of citations, and etceteras, I found it necessary to replace the {{underconstruction}} banner upon James Orlin Grabbe. Within a day or two, I will request that the article be returned to XJDR's Userspace (proposed url: XJDR/James Orlin Grabbe) in order for XJDR to address the numerous issues cited to date. I am open to discussion (below) on this issue. My intention should in no way be misinterpreted as a value judgment on anything other than the need to address the various issues cited to date regarding referencing and "voice" (biased tone). Note: In the course of editing the "edit box", it occurred to me that XJDR used a word-processing text-editor which was incompatible with the Wikipedia text-editor. This incompatibility probably is the cause of the "dead links"; however I do not have time to pursue the matter. ThsQ ( talk) 15:06, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
ThsQ, I noticed in the "Death" section above that you expressed
specific opinions about some of Orlin's investigative writings,
(teeter-totter on the fine line between fact and fantasy).
I personally do not care if what he wrote is true or not,
and I did explicitly try to keep such direct evaluations out of the text.
I fail to see any reason for adding more about those items to
the article than what is there already. It states that he
wrote such articles, that they were noticed, as well as being
countered by some as flaky conspiracy fantasies.
In my opinion that is enough for Wikipedia, since it should
not be used as a platform for making value judgments such as
you did above. If some, you included, have additional problems
or agendas regarding Orlin's writings then there are blogs and
the rest of the web to use for such discussions.
Wikipedia is not the place.
I have been informed that his family have made arrangements with archivists for safe handling and preservation of the very voluminous research and background material Orlin had collected for each article, just in case it would "get lost" or "accidentally destroyed". It is my understanding that serious (and vetted) researchers are planned to be given access to peruse those archives. As for me; I'm not interested enough, but I do maintain the stance that main stream media and the like should be presumed guilty and not trustworthy until explicitly proven innocent. Caveat lector, indeed. XJDR ( talk) 23:56, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
This is where notes to updates to the set of links and references will be made. Some requests added recently will be deleted/ignored, with appropriate comments here. XJDR ( talk) 20:18, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Intro: Bill StClair found a good death notice and added it. If fact, that link could also be used in later sections as a reference for the PhD link request, the student magazine editor link request and the claim of wide spread of "Memories of Pasadena". This section is now all handled. XJDR ( talk) 13:53, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Early Life: Link to description of education as a youth added. The request for links regarding the professorships of the brothers was clearly spurious, since their names were already linked to their respective universities. Modified text to make it even clearer. This section is now all handled. XJDR ( talk) 13:53, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Ambassador College: Referring to the obituary included by Bill StClair handles previous link requests, even though a ready-made Google search for "Memories of Pasadena"+grabbe could be added as well. I consider this section now to be all handled. XJDR ( talk) 14:42, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Berkeley, Harvard and Wharton: All reference requests handled, even though there is a suggestion to "google" for the book International Financial Markets since making a meaningful selection of universities that have that book as course material is a somewhat futile excercise IMHO. Section done, I think. XJDR ( talk) 17:00, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
XJDR, By the time you read what I am writing right now, you will have seen probably how I reacted to the subsection: "The End..." etcetera. Your point of view is extremely heavy in this section, lopsided. Words such as "highly" this and "widely" that need to be supported by third-party, unbiased references. It is only by the time that Leslie Stahl's opinion is presented (somewhat) that we readers encounter a balance. Yet then, you suggest that Stahl's opinion is (was) "received with some amusement". Yet you do not cite a critical third-party criticism; you agree with the critics (i.e. your choice of the word amusement is a loaded expression): Salon.com is a blog (according to Wikipedia's guidelines) blogs are not acceptable as reliable sources; Don Cox (from the Reno Gazette) does carry some weight, however a google search of his offerings suggest that he has had only a 100 or so publications so he falls into a novice opinion category much like the blog writer above; and Grabbe's opinion can hardly be said to be unbiased. After thrashing Stahl's opinion, I believe you need some heavier ammunition than what you cite. The entire subsection ("The End...") needs to be addressed by you from a more balanced point of view. I tried to copy-edit as much of the viewpoint writing as I could, and I believe you may benefit by analyizing my opinion rather than resisting it. ThsQ ( talk) 16:41, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 ( talk) 01:45, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
As orlingrabbe.com is down consequent to his passing, I have updated some of the dead links to point to an archive on my site. Kent Heiner ( talk) 03:11, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
James Orlin Grabbe. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
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RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 02:29, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on James Orlin Grabbe. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:08, 18 April 2017 (UTC)