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I haven't read either of the cited books, but a TV doc I have seen suggests Raglan's orders which guns to attack (the ones to Cardigan's front or ones on the ridge) wasn't clear, & the messenger Raglan sent was disinclined to clarify, since he despised either Raglan or Cardigan (I don't recall which). Trekphiler 10:02, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
I just saw on a TV program that there were 674 men present, not 668.
Lord Haw-Haw says that this man was the first with that nickname. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.20.17.84 ( talk) 09:24, 19 December 2006 (UTC).
Like the 'Black Bottle' affair. Jooler 00:06, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
I propose replacing the Dr Bloy citation (see here) with a direct quote from Woodham-Smith: Dr Bloy is both quoting from her (acknowledged) and paraphrasing her. It seems to be a case of good-faith use of an intermediate source. -- Old Moonraker 11:17, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
The page seems to suggest that Lord Cardigan either fled, or behaved dishonorably during the Charge of the Light Brigade. This should be clarified, as all sources i have seen(The Crimean War, British Battle Series etc.) save this one, suggest that, while he, either mistakenly or deliberately misinterpreted the orders, was most courageous in carrying them out. e.g. He led from the front, as was proper, in at the time (at one point he reprimanded a young orderly for riding even with him), and he did indeed reach the objective and having taken the guns, turned back and rode back as calmly as he had rode forward. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.191.170.226 ( talk) 07:47, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
A good start but more details needed on his early and later life. Some of the web sites used may not prove reliable and book refs need page numbers added. The newspaper refs I presume you must have got them via a web site can these be linked ? The lede needs to be expanded to cover his life and ideally should be about three paragraphs. -- Jim Sweeney ( talk) 14:44, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
Reviewer: Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 22:48, 11 July 2010 (UTC) GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
In the section on his parliamentary career it is stated he was "thrown out of his seat" at Marlborough in 1829, and that he was "thrown out again" at Fowey in 1832. More precise terminology should be used. While it is clear that the Fowey seat had been abolished under the 1832 Reform Act, the picture is less clear (from the article on the constituency) as to what procedurally happened over Marlborough - was he what is now called 'deselected' at constituency level or had he lost an election? Cloptonson ( talk) 19:22, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
A relative of mine who has a great interest and knowledge in both yachting and the Crimean War, and knowing that I had been a Wikipedia editor, has written to me to dispute the 'steam' description given to the "Dryad" in this article. I've looked into a bit on his behalf, and there is no doubt that the boat is described as a steam yacht in several secondary sources besides the one cited in the article e.g. [1] [2]. But many more, including sources in the 19th century, just call the Dryad a yacht or a cutter e.g. [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]. Interestingly, it is only post 1968, when the Dryad was portrayed as a steam yacht in the "Charge of the Light Brigade" film, does any source I can find describe the vessel thus. The most extensive description of the Dryad comes in the Crimean War Research Society's journal in a 2014 article entitled "Yachts, yachtsman and the Crimean War" which describes the "RYS Dryad" as "a cutter of 85 tons", and includes a photo of a model of the Dryad in the Science Museum, and two contemporaneous pictures (of a yacht). All this suggests strongly that the 'steam' is a recent, incorrect (though reliably sourced) descriptor, and I am going to remove the qualifier in the article in my next edit.-- Slp1 ( talk) 19:49, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
This acquaintance of Cardigan's, not properly identified in the article but playing a crucial part in Cardigan's survival after the Battle of Balaclava, appears to be Prince Leon Hieronim Radziwiłł who in 1854 was a Major General in the Russia's Uhlan Division serving in the Crimea. He was a member of a diplomatic mission to London in May 1844. However I can't find a reliable source that joins the dots to show that he is definitely the man. Anybody take this any further?-- 217.155.32.221 ( talk) 23:40, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
My good-faith edit here has been deleted without explanation. It's the culmination of a series of edits around the topic over the last few days—see my contribution history here.-- 217.155.32.221 ( talk) 15:51, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
Cardigan's "desire to lead a smart and efficient unit" is not a feature of the Flashman novels. For example, in Flashman at the Charge until the Crimean war he only appears tangentially: once in a chance encounter in Hyde Park and once when he is discovered, without his trousers, in a far-from-chance encounter in Flashman's wife's bedroom. I'm proposing to remove this from the article.-- 217.155.32.221 ( talk) 07:28, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
This may refer initially to the re-equipping of the 11th Light Dragoons following the return from India in 1838. However, as the reference to the "Hussar officer's jacket" indicates, the situation would have been exacerbated by the re-classication in 1840 of the 11th Light Dragoons as a Hussar regiment- "Prince Albert's Own"- in recognition of the regiment's role in the wedding of Queen Victoria to Prince Albert of Saxe Coburg. This resulted in even greater expense for officers with the more costly hussar uniform rendered more splendid with the addition of crimson 'overall' trousers reflecting their new Colonel's family livery. While Cardigan doubtlessly embraced this change with enthusiasm, it was not at his initiative- a nuance worth pointing out. JF42 ( talk) JF42 ( talk) 08:27, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
![]() | James Brudenell, 7th Earl of Cardigan has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on March 28, 2017. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
James Brudenell, 7th Earl of Cardigan article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I haven't read either of the cited books, but a TV doc I have seen suggests Raglan's orders which guns to attack (the ones to Cardigan's front or ones on the ridge) wasn't clear, & the messenger Raglan sent was disinclined to clarify, since he despised either Raglan or Cardigan (I don't recall which). Trekphiler 10:02, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
I just saw on a TV program that there were 674 men present, not 668.
Lord Haw-Haw says that this man was the first with that nickname. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.20.17.84 ( talk) 09:24, 19 December 2006 (UTC).
Like the 'Black Bottle' affair. Jooler 00:06, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
I propose replacing the Dr Bloy citation (see here) with a direct quote from Woodham-Smith: Dr Bloy is both quoting from her (acknowledged) and paraphrasing her. It seems to be a case of good-faith use of an intermediate source. -- Old Moonraker 11:17, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
The page seems to suggest that Lord Cardigan either fled, or behaved dishonorably during the Charge of the Light Brigade. This should be clarified, as all sources i have seen(The Crimean War, British Battle Series etc.) save this one, suggest that, while he, either mistakenly or deliberately misinterpreted the orders, was most courageous in carrying them out. e.g. He led from the front, as was proper, in at the time (at one point he reprimanded a young orderly for riding even with him), and he did indeed reach the objective and having taken the guns, turned back and rode back as calmly as he had rode forward. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.191.170.226 ( talk) 07:47, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
A good start but more details needed on his early and later life. Some of the web sites used may not prove reliable and book refs need page numbers added. The newspaper refs I presume you must have got them via a web site can these be linked ? The lede needs to be expanded to cover his life and ideally should be about three paragraphs. -- Jim Sweeney ( talk) 14:44, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
Reviewer: Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 22:48, 11 July 2010 (UTC) GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
In the section on his parliamentary career it is stated he was "thrown out of his seat" at Marlborough in 1829, and that he was "thrown out again" at Fowey in 1832. More precise terminology should be used. While it is clear that the Fowey seat had been abolished under the 1832 Reform Act, the picture is less clear (from the article on the constituency) as to what procedurally happened over Marlborough - was he what is now called 'deselected' at constituency level or had he lost an election? Cloptonson ( talk) 19:22, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
A relative of mine who has a great interest and knowledge in both yachting and the Crimean War, and knowing that I had been a Wikipedia editor, has written to me to dispute the 'steam' description given to the "Dryad" in this article. I've looked into a bit on his behalf, and there is no doubt that the boat is described as a steam yacht in several secondary sources besides the one cited in the article e.g. [1] [2]. But many more, including sources in the 19th century, just call the Dryad a yacht or a cutter e.g. [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]. Interestingly, it is only post 1968, when the Dryad was portrayed as a steam yacht in the "Charge of the Light Brigade" film, does any source I can find describe the vessel thus. The most extensive description of the Dryad comes in the Crimean War Research Society's journal in a 2014 article entitled "Yachts, yachtsman and the Crimean War" which describes the "RYS Dryad" as "a cutter of 85 tons", and includes a photo of a model of the Dryad in the Science Museum, and two contemporaneous pictures (of a yacht). All this suggests strongly that the 'steam' is a recent, incorrect (though reliably sourced) descriptor, and I am going to remove the qualifier in the article in my next edit.-- Slp1 ( talk) 19:49, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
This acquaintance of Cardigan's, not properly identified in the article but playing a crucial part in Cardigan's survival after the Battle of Balaclava, appears to be Prince Leon Hieronim Radziwiłł who in 1854 was a Major General in the Russia's Uhlan Division serving in the Crimea. He was a member of a diplomatic mission to London in May 1844. However I can't find a reliable source that joins the dots to show that he is definitely the man. Anybody take this any further?-- 217.155.32.221 ( talk) 23:40, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
My good-faith edit here has been deleted without explanation. It's the culmination of a series of edits around the topic over the last few days—see my contribution history here.-- 217.155.32.221 ( talk) 15:51, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
Cardigan's "desire to lead a smart and efficient unit" is not a feature of the Flashman novels. For example, in Flashman at the Charge until the Crimean war he only appears tangentially: once in a chance encounter in Hyde Park and once when he is discovered, without his trousers, in a far-from-chance encounter in Flashman's wife's bedroom. I'm proposing to remove this from the article.-- 217.155.32.221 ( talk) 07:28, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
This may refer initially to the re-equipping of the 11th Light Dragoons following the return from India in 1838. However, as the reference to the "Hussar officer's jacket" indicates, the situation would have been exacerbated by the re-classication in 1840 of the 11th Light Dragoons as a Hussar regiment- "Prince Albert's Own"- in recognition of the regiment's role in the wedding of Queen Victoria to Prince Albert of Saxe Coburg. This resulted in even greater expense for officers with the more costly hussar uniform rendered more splendid with the addition of crimson 'overall' trousers reflecting their new Colonel's family livery. While Cardigan doubtlessly embraced this change with enthusiasm, it was not at his initiative- a nuance worth pointing out. JF42 ( talk) JF42 ( talk) 08:27, 1 February 2023 (UTC)